MerchantCo
Merchant
I haven't played with them much, but the UA seems rather lame. It's too situational IMO. Thoughts?
Moderator Action: Moved to BNW.
Moderator Action: Moved to BNW.
Are the Indonesians underpowered?
- Thread starter MerchantCo
- Start date
tomtom5858
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 320
Situational? +12 happiness and +18GPT is weak? It doesn't work on Pangaea, but it's still extremely powerful.
Viregel
, The Rt. Hon.
The UA is very good, although situational. They should probably have more trade benefits though.
MerchantCo
Merchant
Well, I can't settle cities on new continents until I have Astronomy, which is very annoying.
JSMCAG
King
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- Messages
- 780
Not necessarily true.
The game considers a continent to be any landmass - in other words, a 1-tile island is a continent completely separate from any other landmass.
This means that, if you have an island off the coast, you can settle it for your Nutmeg!
For that, you only need Optics!cutelilduck
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Messages
- 32
Won a Cultural as Indonesia on King, wasn't particularly hard. Went 4 cities Tradition/Aesthetics/Exploration and traded my 2nd set of my exclusive luxuries around all game. It basically means you always have something the AI doesn't.
It's always worth mentioning that its not different continents, it's just different islands. I got lucky and managed to found my 3rd city on a nearby little island and my 4th on another @ Astronomy, and a 5th on the other actual continent.
Edit: The Kris swordsman didn't get much testing, I got their tech late and was past it pretty quickly. I built 3 of them due to low Iron, but 1 of them got a ridiculous upgrade that said -20 HP per turn in enemy territory, and the other two got very good ones, the two actions per turn upgrade.
It's always worth mentioning that its not different continents, it's just different islands. I got lucky and managed to found my 3rd city on a nearby little island and my 4th on another @ Astronomy, and a 5th on the other actual continent.
Edit: The Kris swordsman didn't get much testing, I got their tech late and was past it pretty quickly. I built 3 of them due to low Iron, but 1 of them got a ridiculous upgrade that said -20 HP per turn in enemy territory, and the other two got very good ones, the two actions per turn upgrade.
Montezumas Hat
Chieftain
I don't understand this sentiment at all. In fact, it's literally the opposite; the extra resources give you more reason to settle in great off-continent trade locations. As opposed to civs like Morocco, whose UU and UI lose usefulness without desert. Or Brazil not getting jungle tiles, Netherlands without marsh, Russia without iron and horses. I could keep going, but I'd be listing at least half of the civs in the game.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 16,937
Here's my take away on Indonesia:
Candi - awesome. The best part of the civ. it's like a Faith buying spree with someone else's credit card.
Kris Swordsman: most of the promotions are ridiculously awesome. The rest make the unit discardable. Pretty nice.
Spice Islanders: if you use this before Astronomy, you are wasting it. Scope out some prime overseas real estate with 2 luxuries, then settle a city there for a trade city with 3 luxuries. Hopefully you can build a Candi there. Roll in the filthy lucre and Faith points.
Candi - awesome. The best part of the civ. it's like a Faith buying spree with someone else's credit card.
Kris Swordsman: most of the promotions are ridiculously awesome. The rest make the unit discardable. Pretty nice.
Spice Islanders: if you use this before Astronomy, you are wasting it. Scope out some prime overseas real estate with 2 luxuries, then settle a city there for a trade city with 3 luxuries. Hopefully you can build a Candi there. Roll in the filthy lucre and Faith points.
PhilBowles
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,333
Just won my second game as Indonesia (it's amazing how you can faithspam Great Scientists with +186 faith per turn, in part due to four candis each churning out 6) - a game I deliberately played on Pangea to test a point. I find Indonesia much easier to play than the other BNW civs I've so far tried (Assyria and Morocco).
I find it strange to look at the UA and think "how restrictive" without considering quite what it does. As noted, it's up to 12 happiness + 21 gpt. Settling one off-island city (which is almost always going to be possible, usually even on Pangea) is almost a UA by itself - two (which is typical in my experience) is strong. The situations where you can found all three are slightly less common, but in those cases Indonesia is grossly overpowered, so it should be rare (in fact, it's at most uncommon on shuffle maps).
There is no real need to settle your own luxuries while there are plenty in the landscape unless you have a particularly attractive site - sure, scout out and stake a claim to areas early in case someone else shows an interest, but there's no need to rush even Optics, let alone Astronomy.
I find it strange to look at the UA and think "how restrictive" without considering quite what it does. As noted, it's up to 12 happiness + 21 gpt. Settling one off-island city (which is almost always going to be possible, usually even on Pangea) is almost a UA by itself - two (which is typical in my experience) is strong. The situations where you can found all three are slightly less common, but in those cases Indonesia is grossly overpowered, so it should be rare (in fact, it's at most uncommon on shuffle maps).
There is no real need to settle your own luxuries while there are plenty in the landscape unless you have a particularly attractive site - sure, scout out and stake a claim to areas early in case someone else shows an interest, but there's no need to rush even Optics, let alone Astronomy.
Heinage
Khan
I've just started my second game and chose Indonesia. Got a perfect start on my own Island off the shore of a larger Island with little Islands dotted around. And this is on large map, continents mind you! Very lucky.
Anyway, I risk upsetting Brazil because I settled my third city right next to his capital in a little enclave that has 2 sources of spices and iron. Add nutmeg to that (my first overseas city) and I've got quite a nice coastal city there right next to a Venetian bought city state!
Am I right in thinking the trade routes will be very lucrative and AI will love connecting to that city? I'm thinking of building the east India company there
Anyway, I risk upsetting Brazil because I settled my third city right next to his capital in a little enclave that has 2 sources of spices and iron. Add nutmeg to that (my first overseas city) and I've got quite a nice coastal city there right next to a Venetian bought city state!
Am I right in thinking the trade routes will be very lucrative and AI will love connecting to that city? I'm thinking of building the east India company there
AdamGM
Warlord
I found them almost useless.
The gold value of trade routes coming out of that new city (on a different continent) was far less then average. I expected it to be worth more, considering they say that more unique resources are supposed to be worth more.
The gold value of trade routes coming out of that new city (on a different continent) was far less then average. I expected it to be worth more, considering they say that more unique resources are supposed to be worth more.
I think Indonesians are custom made for the Tiny Island map; where you can with ease found a total of 4 cities each on a different land mass.
As far as which tree to go down; I'd treat them like anyone else; if you are planning on founding 7 cities you want Liberty; if only founding that bare minimum 4 cities then something else.
As far as which tree to go down; I'd treat them like anyone else; if you are planning on founding 7 cities you want Liberty; if only founding that bare minimum 4 cities then something else.
ToodleElNoodos
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2011
- Messages
- 187
Good point about astronomy. You want to make one of the most lucrative sites for your first few cities. Indonesia is similar to Sweden, you don't shine till later, but you shine well when it matters.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
I think the reason why they made their UA so situational is because fo the fact that you can get THREE unique resources that cannot be stolen or "pillaged" (well, they can be stolen, but still).
If you think about most starting locations start near at least 1-3 unique luxury resources (i.e diffrent ones, like Ivory, Incense and Wine near together or something like that), this would give Indonesia QUITE a lot of growing power.
If you think about most starting locations start near at least 1-3 unique luxury resources (i.e diffrent ones, like Ivory, Incense and Wine near together or something like that), this would give Indonesia QUITE a lot of growing power.
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 9,408
I just won my third BNW game (continents map), and while I was very lucky to have some easily accessible islands (connected by coast) close to my continent, I was already on a good path before I could settle them. I decided to research Mathematics early and get the Hanging Gardens for a free Candi and Catapults for early conquest to make use of my Kris Swordsmen.
Now let me tell you something about Kris Swordsmen: Kris Swordsmen are one of the best UUs in the game. There, I said it !
There's one and a half bad promotions (I count Enemy Blade as half because the unit is still good for defense and barb hunting) and the good ones more than make up for it. Heroism practically gives you a free Great General, Ambition and Recruitment let you tear through enemy units and Invincible let's you soak up ridiculous amounts of damage. I understand that people dislike the unrealibility and I myself don't really like randomness in strategy games, but the Kris promotions are just that good if you adapt your tactics.
The Candi is also pretty nice, I guess...
Now let me tell you something about Kris Swordsmen: Kris Swordsmen are one of the best UUs in the game. There, I said it !
There's one and a half bad promotions (I count Enemy Blade as half because the unit is still good for defense and barb hunting) and the good ones more than make up for it. Heroism practically gives you a free Great General, Ambition and Recruitment let you tear through enemy units and Invincible let's you soak up ridiculous amounts of damage. I understand that people dislike the unrealibility and I myself don't really like randomness in strategy games, but the Kris promotions are just that good if you adapt your tactics.
The Candi is also pretty nice, I guess...
Merciorum
Prince
Very powerful. The Kris is IMO the best UU in the game, at least in BNW (Winged Hussar follows closely afterwards).
