A Guide to Civics

atog said:
and OMG i have to disagree with environmentalist. there's a max number u can get with special resources.... for your city to grow over 30 or even 40, you definitely need it very much!
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umm it's quite impractical to get a city to size 30 or above because it will produce no shield and even if you're making a GP machine then two of such cities is the maximum there's no justifying paying the high upkeep cost for such a marginal benefit. Environmentalist is definitely the least useful out of all the civics, especially for the fact that it comes so darn late.

Heroes said:
Certainly, otherwise why research communism in the 1st place? It's a dead end tech, like fascism and democracy. I guess the true power of communism is Kremlin, which halves rush cost (for spaceship for instance).
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minor point but you can't rush projects like spaceship parts. :) But yes Kremlin is indeed one of the most powerful wonders.

As for Mercantilism though, I sometimes use it in combination with Caste System so I can quickly expand my new size 1 cities without having to building culture. But it's viable to do it with Spiritual imo as the anarchys of switching back and forth and the lost potential commerce is quite costly.
 
gakkun said:
umm it's quite impractical to get a city to size 30 or above because it will produce no shield and even if you're making a GP machine then two of such cities is the maximum there's no justifying paying the high upkeep cost for such a marginal benefit. Environmentalist is definitely the least useful out of all the civics, especially for the fact that it comes so darn late.
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I do agree with you that envivonmentalism is a bit rubish, but the great big cities are far from useless. Assuming you are going for space race, and lets face it, if you (or at least the AI) get to environmentalism the AI is going to launch soon so you better had be. What you need is 2 or 3 cities with high production and a whole load of science. With reprasentation each specialists gives you 6 (ish) science, which in your oxford uni city is likely to be over 18 commerce. Also all your marginal cities can have around 4 - 6 specialists. This makes a huge difference.
 
The problem is that environmentalism only allows 2 extra population units, because of the food limitation

Imagine a city that is At the health limit, but has 18 extra food, that allows 6 extra population (eating 12 food and 6 units of sickness taking 6 more food)

Now give that city Environmentalism, you get 8 population
(they eat 16 food, 2 units of sickness remove the remaining two)

Environmentalism really only has a couple reasons
1-you are an outcast and so can get no health happy resources
2-you NEED more population for a UN vote
Because the specialist points of two pop per city aren't worth the massive expense of High maintenance...especially this late in the game when the GPP (the only thing you couldn't buy with the money you lose in upkeep) is too unlikely to get another great person...
 
Krikkitone said:
Environmentalism really only has a couple reasons
1-you are an outcast and so can get no health happy resources
2-you NEED more population for a UN vote
Because the specialist points of two pop per city aren't worth the massive expense of High maintenance...especially this late in the game when the GPP (the only thing you couldn't buy with the money you lose in upkeep) is too unlikely to get another great person...
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You are probably right about it being useless, esp. as you have to loose the food bonus from state property.

I am not sure it is the mainainance that kills it though. In my last game I had more money than I knew what to do with, from my shrines. I could not spend it for rushing as I was in burocracy (for the 3 extra beaker).
 
I agree that environmentaliism stands out as weak. Not weak in that "oh, well, in any list, there has to be someone on the bottom" weak. I mean there's a significant gap between environmentalism and the value of the other economic civics in the column. It's just too little too late.

Good assessment on the other civics, though. There's a time and place to make use of nearly all the others.
 
I have added the religious column as a kind of Christmas present :xmas:

I have removed the Environmentalism evalution for the moment, since the patch has shifted things here a lot.I will add it back soon, together with a reworked Mercantilism paragraph.

EDIT: I also added a link to Roland Johansen's civic upkeep article in the upkeep section and corrected the relative values for v1.52.
 
One point regarding Theocracy, it seems it only prevents the spread of new religions where your state religion is Already present, so it does not help 'pave the way' for your state religion to spread.

It does offer the benefit of stopping a religion spreading into your cities and giving a potential enemy LOS or shrine gold. (so it hurts you slightly to deny a benefit to others, making it a very wartime type civic.)
 
Krikkitone said:
One point regarding Theocracy, it seems it only prevents the spread of new religions where your state religion is Already present, so it does not help 'pave the way' for your state religion to spread.

It does offer the benefit of stopping a religion spreading into your cities and giving a potential enemy LOS or shrine gold. (so it hurts you slightly to deny a benefit to others, making it a very wartime type civic.)
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Thanks for pointing that out, I have corrected the text.
 
Regarding civic advancement - it really isn't ADVANCEMENT is it? Yes the civic is more modern and advanced technology is needed but you don't get to keep the advances/effects from the previous civic do you? As if you were adding to the old with additional effects/bonuses?

Does going from Representation with +3 research and +3 happiness to Universal Sufferage mean you have +1 production as well as +3 research and +3 happiness? Or do you lose the Representation effects?
 
No real advancement.If you research a tech which gives you access to a new civic and you decide to make a revolution towards it, then you will lose the effects of the old civic.The only kind of "advancement" (in a philosophic meaning perhaps) is a tendency towards liberal, freedom oriented civics - the old ones are usuallly more repressive.
 
Nice work ! However i have to disagree on that one :

That’s also the reason why Organized is usually rated as the weakest trait - it is only useful under special circumstances and even then, not from the start of the game.
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What is almost always overlooked here is that organized comes with half priced law courts which will be a major help to build an empire that doesnt consist of only a few cities.
 
Orca said:
(...) What is almost always overlooked here is that organized comes with half priced law courts which will be a major help to build an empire that doesnt consist of only a few cities.
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Yes, that's true.I agree that Organzied has its value; however, I have reviewed it here purely fom the view "what does it for you, if you use civics".
But even here the last patch (v1.52) has changed things.Low upkeep is now much more of an issue, because the difference to medium and high upkeep is smaller.Perhaps a reason to add Organized as synergetic for all civics which have maintenance at all.
 
Added low-development use for Mercantilism.
Emphasized the most important synergies for civics (if there are some).
Corrected some minor mistakes.

I will soon continue with the Labor Column.
 
Just a small thing... I think you should put the Kremlin in as a synergy for Universal Sufferage. In games where I play as a Financial leader, obtaining US and the Kremlin is a very high priority. Rush units, rush banks, courthouses, wonders, etc, etc.

It's been a fantastic guide so far. Thanks a lot!
 
genjiboy said:
Just a small thing... I think you should put the Kremlin in as a synergy for Universal Sufferage. In games where I play as a Financial leader, obtaining US and the Kremlin is a very high priority. Rush units, rush banks, courthouses, wonders, etc, etc.

It's been a fantastic guide so far. Thanks a lot!
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A very good point - the Kremlin really slipped through, when I wrote the US paragraph.Perhaps because I didn't managed to build it yet in my games.
 
Great guide. By the way, it's spelled 'prerequisite'.

I have found Environmentalism useful especially during war in the modern age. I was on a huge pangea map being attacked on several fronts and had to get my units around using airports since the railway was too slow. I had no good allies, most were furious towards me. Lots of cities suffered from unhealthiness because of mass airports/coal plants/industry etc, and switching to Environmentalism could get them out of the way so I didn't have to build granaries/aqueducts/harbours and could get to cranking out tanks.

I haven't tried State Property though, my empire was massive and perhaps I would have gotten more benefit out of that.
 
Excellent guide : On my first game id been running univ suffrage, free speech, emancipation, pacifism for elizabeth with lots of cottages ..based mainly on 'Gut instinct' and its great to see a good analysis on where to change and when.
 
Pfeffersack said:
Added low-development use for Mercantilism.
Emphasized the most important synergies for civics (if there are some).
Click to expand...

If mercantilism also cuts trade routes for all other nations towards own nation, then it can be a lesser disadvantage, if some nation, that is or will be a competitor is trade heavy with the own nation, simply both will lose, while the mercantilistic one gets something else in return.

Carn
 
what you used environmentalism for in the modern age with all that unhealthiness is about the only good use for it. You used it well, however next time try state prop... the financial benefits are massive.
But it sounds you may have made the right move in the right situation patriarch
 
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