A comprehensive UU guide (the updated thread)

Wodan said:

[Though, I think they still end their turn on a forested/jungled hill, someone can verify.]

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This is true.

note: on beelining to gunpowder post 2.08 patch

This is what I usually do playing the ottomans, being Expansive means Going for Angkor Wat and that wonder requires Philosophy. I assume you already know how to beeline to certains techs and general gameplay this is how I beeline to gunpowder.

1st Great Person is a GS, to lightbulb Philosophy, this is going through the religious tech path to pick up Codes of Law. Once you found and set up your Great person farm, Better finish up using slavery because you will temporarily switch to Cast System and Pacifism to produce those great people faster

(Optional) Next person can be another GS to build an academy to research certain techs faster to lightbulb CS with a GM eg -Maths, Metal Casting, Currency and Monarchy.

2nd Great Person to be born using your temporary GP farm is a GM to lightbulb CS

3rd Great person is another GS to lightbulb Education after Researching paper.
Now your on your way to an early Gunpowder UU, I usually get them before the AI gets Maces but this is on Prince level

By this point switch back to slavery and whether you want to switch out of Pacifism is up to you plus you want to switch civics becuase you have CS therefore you want to use Bureaucracy ASAP.

This method also opens up early Liberalism you can tech Liberalismm 1st and pick up gunpowder as free tech to deny the AI the free tech or you can reasearch gunpowder first then Liberalism 2nd and pick up Nationalism as a free tech and draft those Ottomen UUs.

Using the Ottomens I general Delay a War Unless it's a really early war using an Axe Rush to pick up my 1st GG so i can build heroic Epic.

About Navy Seals, I played your end game in EMC 3 and focused hard on those guys (earlier finish : I accepted shaka's capitulation ).

The amphibious and march promotions + first strikes + bonus vs machine gun and artillery make any coastal defense feable vs those guys.
With a bunch of battleships/destroyers, a group of 2 transports (one at least with medic) full of seals will take care of any coastline.
I don't go further into this, since you just tried yourself.
But the strong point of the seals are that they just never stop.
First strike and amphibious make the win, march and medic transport make the healing.

The only drawback of those guys is they come sooo late.

kniteowl said:

note: on beelining to gunpowder post 2.08 patch

This is what I usually do playing the ottomans, being Expansive means Going for Angkor Wat and that wonder requires Philosophy. I assume you already know how to beeline to certains techs and general gameplay this is how I beeline to gunpowder.

1st Great Person is a GS, to lightbulb Philosophy, this is going through the religious tech path to pick up Codes of Law. Once you found and set up your Great person farm, Better finish up using slavery becssue you will temporarily switch to Cast System and Pacifism to produce those great people faster

(Optional) Next person can be another GS to build an academy to research certain techs faster to light CS with a GM eg -Maths, Metal Casting, Currency and Monarchy.

2nd Great Person to be born using your temporary GP farm is a GM to lightbulb CS

3rd Great person is another GS to lightbulb Education after Researching paper.
Now your on your way to an early Gunpowder UU, I usually get them before the AI gets Maces but this is on Prince level

By this point switch back to slavery and whether you want to switch out of Pacifism is up to you plus you want to switch civics becuase you have CS therefore you want to use Bureaucracy ASAP.

This method also opens up early Liberalism you can tech Liberalismm 1st and pick up gunpowder as free tech to deny the AI the free tech or you can reasearch gunpowder first then Liberalism 2nd and pick up Nationalism as a free tech and draft those Ottomen UUs.

Using the Ottomens I general Delay a War Unless it's a really early war using an Axe Rush to pick up my 1st GG so i can build heroic Epic.

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Good stuff here and I do it like that... well almost
From Education I always take Liberalism (if it hasn't already been done, of course ).
For the free tech I take Nationalism and start building the Taj Mahal if convenient (for real or for the money)
Then I have a problem... since we are using Caste System and Pacificm here, do I go for more research power from Constitution (for Representation) or do I research Gunpowder and start building / drafting Musketmen (Janissaries or Musketeeers) to build up the military. That will depend on the situation and how often I want to change civics as with Mehmet (for instance) it will probably cost 2 turns of anarchy to go from research mode to military production mode (to Nationhood?, Slavery, Theology from Bureaucracy, Caste System, Pacificism).

An interesting set of possibilities is opened up by that research path and you can miss out the conventional middle game macemen and trebuchets options and just use a mass of early musketmen or janissaries backed up with catapults for defence reduction and some collateral damage to dominate militarily. Although it has to be said researching Engineering for trebuchets, faster travel and even the castles is a good idea at that stage. I like that as a mid game war option and it makes good use of the Ottoman UU backed up by the UB.

Phrederick said:

Charismatic means promotions at 2/4/8, so even if they were charismatic, 7exp is still only two promotions.

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Thanks for the correction.

Wow, thanks for the flood of input, guys I'll take a bit of time to process all of that and will incorporate your ideas accordingly.

kniteowl, the problem I see is getting the GM to lightbulb CS with. I think you're assuming a switch to Caste System, but the opportunity cost of not running Slavery and the extra anarchy is quite significant. Also, having to get Monarchy and MC might tie you up for a little while, making the rush almost not a rush. I'd call it a possibly wise use of certain GPs instead.

Just to keep track, entries to be added are as follows (in chronological order): Numidian Cavalry, Impi, Redcoat, Chukonu, Fast Worker, Navy SEAL

aelf said:

kniteowl, the problem I see is getting the GM to lightbulb CS with. I think you're assuming a switch to Caste System, but the opportunity cost of not running Slavery and the extra anarchy is quite significant.

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Anarchy is a good point. However, using Slavery has its own opportunity cost and penalizes research. It was discussed over here...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192497

Wodan

About Quechuas: Their name is the father of the word "jerky" as in Beef Jerky.
And they seem to be needed for deity level wins.
They shine if you have a close neighbour, so crowded Pangea-type maps make them better. Isolated-style maps make them worse (take too long to get to the front, and distance maitenance will usually be worse, so it's less appealing to take an early enemy city.
They are good for the "declare war immediately on enemies so they won't expand and therefore suffer" - tactic.

And say something about how 2 Q will (well almost always) beat 1 archer, but they are so cheap that this concentration of force will always be available to the tactically wise player.

Also mention that enemy city-on-hill-with-culture can kill the Q-rush.

UncleJJ said:

Good stuff here and I do it like that... well almost
From Education I always take Liberalism (if it hasn't already been done, of course ).
For the free tech I take Nationalism and start building the Taj Mahal if convenient (for real or for the money)
Then I have a problem... since we are using Caste System and Pacificm here, do I go for more research power from Constitution (for Representation) or do I research Gunpowder and start building / drafting Musketmen (Janissaries or Musketeeers) to build up the military. That will depend on the situation and how often I want to change civics as with Mehmet (for instance) it will probably cost 2 turns of anarchy to go from research mode to military production mode (to Nationhood?, Slavery, Theology from Bureaucracy, Caste System, Pacificism).

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Um... With the Civics it's basically

From Slavery & Paganism --> Cast System & Pacifism

Then depending how you want to play the game.

After lightbulbing Education
Cast System & Pacifism --> Bureaucracy, Slavery & any other Religious Civic (you can stay with Pacificism if you want to)

then later after Picking up Nationalism
Bureaucracy, Slavery & any other Religious Civic --> Nationhood, Slavery & Theology.

Or you can skip the Bureaucracy, Slavery & any other Religious Civic step and wait till nationalism to switch to Nationhood, Slavery & Theology. But reasearch those High Cost Techs in the early game is a pain without CS

aelf said:

kniteowl, the problem I see is getting the GM to lightbulb CS with. I think you're assuming a switch to Caste System, but the opportunity cost of not running Slavery and the extra anarchy is quite significant. Also, having to get Monarchy and MC might tie you up for a little while, making the rush almost not a rush. I'd call it a possibly wise use of certain GPs instead.

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This is basically an extension of my Philo and CS Combination slingshot going further into the tech tree to pickup gunpowder.

And About the GM lightbulbing CS, it's basically timing, If you can research/trade for the following techs in my previous post around the same time your GM is born then you should get CS pretty easily, if not go for another GS as your 2nd Great Person to build an academy to research those techs faster, plus it will still help you in your final push to gunpowder. By the time of your 3rd Great Person becomes a GM you should have all the following techs to lightbulb CS.

Besides it's pretty obvious which techs the AI will research you could trade for
They generally research Maths and Monarchy pretty early so you can trade for those techs.

All you really have to research is Currency and Metal Casting. Obviously you'd go get Currency 1st for the extra trade routes.

The number of turns to produce Great People:

Depends on difficulty level and early Happiness resources available

4 Specialist = 24GPP
200/24=9
300/24=13
400/24=17

3 Specialist = 18 GPP
200/18 = 12
300/18 = 17
300/18 = 23

The maximum number of turns you will stay with the civics Cast System & Pacifism is 54 turns (included anarchy)

The minimum number of turns is 24 turns(included anarchy) if you have 4 specialist and skip the 2nd GS for an academy.

If you can find a faster method to beeline to gunpowder go ahead and use that method, this is the fastest method I can use to beeline to gunpowder.
Or the cost of not using slavery is too much of a pain then stop once you've picked up CS and research Paper, Education and Gunpowder the slow way.

Wodan said:

Anarchy is a good point. However, using Slavery has its own opportunity cost and penalizes research. It was discussed over here...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192497

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Yeah, I read that thread. I believe that there are cities and situations where whipping is not advisable, but generally Slavery is a good way to augment production. You really miss the civic when you find that you suddenly need to rush a few units or buildings but are not running US either and can't do it.

kniteowl, I'm not in any way saying that your suggestion is bad. Maybe I need to test it myself. Unfortunately, I don't have the time. I'll give it a little more thought in the meantime before I come to it.

Oh, yes. I missed out the bit on Quechuas. So the order would be: Numidian Cavalry, Impi, Redcoat, Chukonu, Quechua, Fast Worker, Navy SEAL.

aelf said:

Yeah, I read that thread. I believe that there are cities and situations where whipping is not advisable, but generally Slavery is a good way to augment production. You really miss the civic when you find that you suddenly need to rush a few units or buildings but are not running US either and can't do it.

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Brings up a good point... we might want to go through and point out synergies between leader traits such as Spiritual.

This originally came up for Ottomans, so Spiritual is not an option, but it does beg the question for other civs and other traits.

Wodan

Wodan said:

Brings up a good point... we might want to go through and point out synergies between leader traits such as Spiritual.

This originally came up for Ottomans, so Spiritual is not an option, but it does beg the question for other civs and other traits.

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That's quite beyond the scope of this guide, unfortunately, except maybe in very specific UU-related situations. I'm not trying to write an complete strategic encyclopedia for Civ4 I wouldn't mind if it was my job, though.

And as it is, real life is taking over these few days and I can't write another entry yet.

aelf said:

That's quite beyond the scope of this guide, unfortunately, except maybe in very specific UU-related situations. I'm not trying to write an complete strategic encyclopedia for Civ4 I wouldn't mind if it was my job, though.

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Yeah.

Anyway, you might have misunderstood. All I meant was things such as... Aggressive getting cheaper barracks. When an Aggressive leader has an early UU (say...Mongolia), it makes sense to go out of your way to spam Barracks so that by the time you get Horse Riding you can whip Keshiks left and right.

Or... Imperialistic. Pretty much guarantees you're going to get a GG or two in your early war for Praetorians. Is there some interesting strategy you can use there? I have no idea; that's my point, it might be worth some thought.

Anyway, I'm not volunteering nor am I volunteering you, Aelf. If anything it might be worth adding to your "to do" list for somebody to chip in.

Wodan

Wodan said:

Fast Worker

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Additions to this text.

The FW can even permit unescorted Settlers during the animal period. Their 3 movement allowos them to to take a step or two, then one backward, keeping them safe even from jaguars and wolves. The Settler will be completely safe. Even if the animal is adjacent to the tile you have picked for the new city, a Settler which is two tiles away can take a step and establish the city in the same turn. The animal will actually be in your cultural borders (next to the city) but will harmlessly walk away despite there being no garrison at all. You also benefit by having your worker there with the new city and ready to begin improving tiles.

In addition, Fast Workers make :gasp: good scouts in the period after animals and before Barb HAs. During this period, all Barbs have a movement of only 1. By this time presumably all of your terrain scouting is done, so all that is necessary here is seeing where AIs have settled, and finding the remaining good sites for your expansion. If a Barb comes up, the FW can easily run away.

The 3 move of the FW also permits laying roads into virgin territory without a protective garrison. Long roads are useful for two reasons: 1) to beeline to your new city sites, permitting the Settler to zoom directly there (especially if there is extensive jungle or forest, where the FW can more easily lay roads than normal workers, while furthermore the Settler's 2 move is negated), or 2) to lay a road directly to an planned enemy, facilitating the movement of your new combat troops to the front lines.

An additional about the fast worker: They are very powerful in Quick speed where they can mine or chop a forest they same turn they moved into it, when normal workers have to stop and smell the roses.

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If you remember the old 2.08 Mehmed Oracle-CS slingshot thread I made, I had hand-picked the opponents to not be industrious. Even Spiritual leaders like Isabella didn't build the Oracle as fast as I did at that time.

As for Kniteowl's no-Oracle Education-path Gunpowder, I really think it's impossible to produce a GM to rush Civil Service even with Pacifism. Better off using the first scientist to build an Academy and the second one (I don't think you can get a third GS) to rush Education (without the Philo detour), manually researching Civil Service, Currency and Code of Laws.

This is better on Epic speed where 1 civic change = 1 turn. Horrible on Normal or Marathon when you need 2 civic changes to make it efficient (2 civic changes = 1 turn on normal, 3 turns on Mara). So all through this exercise, the civics changes (Slavery, Caste + Bureaucracy, Slavery) would cost only 4 turns.

IMO drafting during this strategy is a bad idea. You don't even have calendar or religious buildings, so 3 unhappy faces is too much even for the power of the Ottoman Hammam.

In summary, the very minimalist path includes:
Mining -> Bronze (revolt slavery) -> The Wheel -> (Agriculture) -> Pottery or A.Husbandry -> Writing -> Math -> Currency -> Code of Laws -> Civil Service (revolt caste+bureaucracy) -> Paper -> Education (lightbulb) -> Gunpowder (revolt slavery as needed).

A possible future path after that would be then to research Alphabet -> Lit -> Music -> Philosophy (lightbulb) -> Nationalism -> Liberalism -> Military Tradition (free tech).

Mehmed no cottages SG, anyone?

Robo Kai said:

IMO drafting during this strategy is a bad idea. You don't even have calendar or religious buildings, so 3 unhappy faces is too much even for the power of the Ottoman Hammam.

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It's actually only +1 Unhappiness Assuming you've built a barracks in the City you drafted, Because under the Civic Nationhood you get +2 Happiness from barracks.

kniteowl said:

It's actually only +1 Unhappiness Assuming you've built a barracks in the City you drafted, Because under the Civic Nationhood you get +2 Happiness from barracks.

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True. The drafting also costs 1 pop, so there is no net unhappiness for the first draftee until the city regrows. If you run HR then the extra soldier increases the happiness anyway. You can combine drafting with slavery to keep the happiness under control you can draft and whip a big city to provide lots of troops fast and by the time it regows the unhappiness has worn off. Properly run, a drafting strategy should not have a lot of happiness problems.

drafting + slavery is really powerful.
Drafting is cheap, and provides a good number of troops, while slavery is more expensive (more pop lost) but can build various and better troops.

If you plan to draft janissaries, you can whip catapults or trebuchets (but you need engineering!) for 2 pop just after the draft.

With barracks, you have
+3 unhappiness from draft (for 10 turns)
+1 unhappiness from whipping (for 10 turns)
+2 happiness from barracks (until you go back to something useful, like free speech)
-3 unhappiness from 3 lost pop.

Assuming you regrow one (and only one) pop pretty soon, it's neutral on the happiness front.

In addition, Fast Workers make :gasp: good scouts

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I do this alot when I have a worker and no improvements for him to work on.

Wodan said:

Yeah.

Anyway, you might have misunderstood. All I meant was things such as... Aggressive getting cheaper barracks. When an Aggressive leader has an early UU (say...Mongolia), it makes sense to go out of your way to spam Barracks so that by the time you get Horse Riding you can whip Keshiks left and right.


Wodan

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Of course, in this particular case of Mongolia, the Keshik benefits neither from the barracks nor the Aggressive trait.