QSC-c1 "Irritated Mao" game progress.

More on tech insanity.

<Hidden year> (I) Theology completes, heading for Education.
<the very next turn> (I) The Great Library completed by England, which is almost obsolete already.

Originally posted by zenga


1. Check the map size. This map is non-standard with only 40% water (stated in one of the opening posts in the thread), meaning that the other civs were always likely to be fairly close. This may also determine whether it is worthwhile to build the Great Lighthouse.

zenga

Click to expand...

And I have already started building the Great Lighthouse.

stwils

As promised, my next 30 turns...

NB: Upload facility is not working. I have had to attach these files...

(61) 1500BC
The Zulu start the Great Library.
Xinjan founded. Harbor ordered.
Chengdu founded next to cow and spices. Temple ordered.
Beijing builds horseman, starts spearman.

(62) 1475BC
Horseman moves to cover a worker who is being threatened by a barbarian across the river.
Our horsie is attacked by a barbarian warrior and a horseman, promoting to elite, but ending up in the red.

(63) 1450BC
Worker roads iron, but is threatened by a barbarian. He is moved to safety.
England has currency, I wait for it to be traded around.

(64) 1425BC
Beijing reaches population 5, luxuries to 20%.
Barbarians pillage our iron road.
Beijing builds spearman, starts settler.
Shanghai builds spearman, starts settler.
Nanking builds temple, starts settler.

(65) 1400BC
Shanghai spearman fortifies.
Beijing spearman fortifies. Luxuries to 10%.
An elite warrior is killed attacking a conscript barbarian horsie. Ugh!
Canton build changed to warrior, due to the barbarian problem.
Currency is still only in the hands of the English.
Canton completes warrior, goes back to worker factory duties.

(66) 1375BC
America and India now have Currency. England and India also have Construction.
We buy Construction from India for 180 gold.
We sell Construction to America for Currency and 30 gold.
India exchanges World Maps.

(67) 1350BC
Our elite horsie has healed and heads towards a barbarian camp.
Luxuries to 20% as Beijing grows to 6.
A barbarian horsie impales itself on our horsie, but drops us to 2 health.

(68) 1325BC
Once again our horsie is forced to fortify and heal.
I sell Currency to the Zulu for 25 gold and their World Map.
A second barbarian horsie attacks and we lose our elite horsie.
Beijing builds settler, starts spearman.

(69) 1300BC
Drop luxuries to 10%.
Settler heads North with a spearman escort.
I watch as a zulu archer disperses a barbarian camp.
India begins the Great Library.

(70) 1275BC
I go ahead and found some embassies.
England - 36 gold - Building the Oracle, 6 citizens, one entertainer, 8 shields per turn.
America - 52 gold - Building a settler, 2 citizens, 3 shields per turn. The settler is complete, but the city hasn't grown
India - 36 gold - Building a settler, 2 citizens, 3 shields per turn. As for America, the settler is complete, but the city hasn't grown.
Zululand - 41 gold - Building the Great Library at a blistering 4 shields per turn (82 turns to completion).
I think Soren needs to take a look at the AI settler before size 3 syndrome, it's a big waste of shields.
I send a spearman from Shanghai to Nanking to guard against 2 barbarian horsies that are heading that way.
Luxuries to 20% as Beijing grows again.

(71) 1250BC
Several things complete, including two settlers.
Two barbarian horses outside Nanking are attacked by a spearman and a warrior. Result: two dead barbarian horsies.
Exchange World Maps with England.
Beijing builds a spearman, starts settler.

(72) 1225BC
A massive barbarian uprising is reported near Canton.

(73) 1200BC
Hangchow is founded on top of spices. A temple is ordered.
A warrior takes out another barbarian horsie next to Nanking, and promotes to veteran.
I look for tech trades, as a barbarian uprising is triggered by two civs entering a new age. I find that England and India have polytheism available. India offers the best price - I spend down my entire treasury of 87 gold and 1 gold/turn to buy it. Spending down the treasury limits the amount of gold that can be pillaged by barbarians.
I watch as a heroic zulu archer takes out 5 or 6 barbarian horsemen before dying.

(74) 1175BC
Tientsin founded. Warrior ordered.
I hold off on selling Polytheism to America and Zululand - at least until the barbarian uprising has passed.
Beijing builds another settler. Spearman ordered.

(75) 1150BC
I watch as 11 barbarian horsies defeat the lone spearman at Hangchow and pillage all of 15 gold.

(76) 1125BC
Another barbarian horsie is killed outside Nanking.

(77) 1100BC
Lots of barbarian horsies appear around Nanking.
The two spearmen in Nanking hold off against what must've been 15 barbarian horsies. Only one remains after the onslaught.

(78) 1075BC
I sell Polytheism to America for their entire treasury of 54 gold and their World Map.

(79) 1050BC
Two barbarian horsies are hilled near Shanghai before they can pillage. Only a settler is left in the city - he is moved to Xinjan for safety.

(80) 1025BC
I change a few builds before saving the game.

(81) 1000BC
(82) 975BC
America has the Republic. He won't sell it though.

(83) 950BC
(84) 925BC
One of the two annoying barbarian camps is finally dispersed by our spearman, who promotes to elite.
England completes the Oracle.
England and India start the Great Library.
India starts the Pyramids.

(85) 900BC
The second annoying barbarian camp is destroyed.
I accidentally move a settler next to a barbarian camp. He gets killed.

(86) 875BC
I buy Republic from Lincoln for 353 gold + 18 gold per turn.
Republic to Lizzie for 252 gold. She's still annoyed and has troops in our land. I sense a sneak-attack coming on.

(87) 850BC
(88) 825BC
Macao founded. Warrior ordered.
I send our civ into revolt, and draw 7 turns of anarchy. Ugh!
Scroll through cities to prevent disorder.

(89) 800BC
Another barbarian camp is dispersed.

(90) 775BC
Seems like everyone has acquired Monarchy and Monotheism. I'll delay trading until we are a Republic.

(61-70)
Swap Math to Gandi for Col and 25g
Lose elite warrior to barbs, but get one elite spear and one vet out of the deal.

(71-80)
No more loses to barbs, got a warrior vet promotion and 25g.
Trade Poly around for cash, WM and Construction.

(81-90)
Get raped by two barb uprising, costing 150g it also cost one elite spear and one vet spear. I made 50g from camps. Made contact with Greece on last turn. This allowed me to clean out the rest of the world's gold and get into the tech lead.

Meldor 1275 BC Meldor 1025 BC Meldor 775 BC

Sorry for the short report, I didn't want to hold things up any more than I had.

Lux is the number of luxuries currently connected to the capitol while New is the number added in this round. Imp is the number of luxuries imported.

A red background in Lux Tax means I had to raise the slider to avoid disorder on the next turn. I will not try to guess what the player would do in that case, I will just raise the slider until all cities are happy enough to avoid disorder. An orange background is the other way around, I was able to lower the slider and still keep all cities happy.

# spec. is the total number of specialists (slackers ) in the empire. A green background indicates a minimum science gambit in progress, meaning at least one of the specialist is not a slacker.

Total comm. is the amount of commerce generated by cities on the Domestic Advisor screen, excluding any other type of income. Expenses lists various expenses, from the same screen, in this format: entertainment/corruption/maintenance/unit cost. Ratio is income divided by commerce, somewhat measuring the efficiency of the empire in the context of the fastest space ship launch strategy.

Top cities list happiness factors in the top 2 cities in the following format: happy pop/content pop/unhappy pop:Military Police-Luxury resource happiness-Building Happiness.

Borealis: A reasonable balance of commerce/production and 2 luxuries will eventually be added when the borders expand. However, due to the low funds available, it is unlikely either of them will come online in the next 20 turns, unless she manages to get some golds from the AI. On the plus side, a marketplace will be built in the next 5 turns in the biggest city, helping with both the happiness issue and the slight cash flow problem.

Charis: What can I say? Genghis Charis can barely keep is troops in check, no wonder his empire is in Anarchy. This however illustrates the cost of a revolution, 0 income, 0 happiness from luxury tax and slackers all over the place, sometimes creating a food deficit. The timing of a revolution is crucial, make sure you have a cash reserve big enough to cover 8 turns of GPT payment. Don't start a revolution if you are about to discover a new tech, the 8 turns delay may make you miss a trading opportunity. If you can connect a luxury in a few turns and have a couple of big towns, it may be worth waiting. Charis has almost a 1000 golds on hands with no GPT payment. He will discover Monarchy in 2 turns, but since it was a single scientist gambit, the gambit can continue while in anarchy. With one luxury connected and no other to connect in the next few turns, he is able to balance happiness in any size 6 towns. There are 2 luxuries connected to his road network but outside of his cultural boundary. It will take about 10 turns to bring them online if a cultural building is rushed right after the anarchy. The question is, what will the anarchy lead to?

Cracker: What can be said here? No new luxury for this round, but a marketplace that helps with both happiness and commerce. It seems unlikely that another luxury will be added in the next 10 turns. Other than that, he is way ahead everybody else at this point. It's almost as if he has an extra city on everyone. Oh wait, he does have an extra city.

Hotrod: 2 specialists in size 1 towns with English names, somebody whipped them hard, probably Elizabeth. One of them is a clown, he could be doing something more useful. A british clown is not the most fun thing to watch. Many size 4 towns, with 10% luxury tax they cannot be any bigger without a temple. One city is blowing smoke in 775 BC but since it is a very corrupt city, the loss was minimal. Only one luxury will be connected in the next 10 turns, allowing 0% tax at size 4 or 10% tax at size 5.

Jaxom: Many size 1 towns, 2 big cities. The size 8 city will grow in 2 turns, requiring 20% lux tax to keep happy unless a marketplace is built. This guy is wasting his commerce, I hope he knows what he is doing. A settler is about to claim a 4th luxury but it will require 29 worker-turns to be connected. A pair of workers seems to be on their way to the perilous ledge leading to the gems. Note that one of his luxury was stolen from Elizabeth by overwhelming her with Chinese culture.

LKendter: Many size 5 towns and 1 size 9 city without a temple, with a single luxury online a 30% luxury tax is needed to keep the city in order. The city can grow to size 10 for the same price and will do so in 1 turn. This is a good example of converting commerce to shield. A wonder cannot be cash-rushed but by investing commerce in entertainment, the city has more productive citizens, thus more shields per turn. By spending about 400 commerce over 20 turns, the wonder will complete a couple of turns earlier. This may seem like a lot of commerce for a couple of turns, but if he snatches the wonder in the nick of time, it is a small price to pay. A second luxury would be a major boon by cutting the commerce price in half, a worker seems to be on that task but it will take at least 11 worker/turns to connect the 2nd luxury to the capitol.

Meldor: Now new luxury added this round, but a settler pair is on its way to claim the fur patch and should have one more luxury connected in the next 20 turns. With 2 luxuries and no cities above size 4, Meldor as no happiness problems. His commerce is a little low compared to others but he is in good shape to switch to republic whenever he chooses to.

SJF: Relatively even distribution of population, with 2 luxury connected and 10% luxury tax, he is good for size 6 towns even without a temple. The seemingly high cost of 10 for entertainment is more than covered by the increased overall commerce. A third luxury is connected to a road and is 13 worker/turns away from connecting to the capitol, that is if the borders expand by then. Ah, Liz settled the fur city in the exact same spot I took in my game. Since Liz stole most of his furs, SJF stole Gandhi's furs. I fear this might degenerate into a furball.

Steve: Not much to say when in anarchy. The red background in # spec. indicates I had to add some specialist in a couple of cities to avoid disorder on the next turn. As for luxuries, he has one connected and a settler pair is near the fur patch, so he should get a 2nd luxury in the next 20 turns, if not the next 10.

Stwils: Luxury tax was 30%, wasting 6 commerce per turn on happiness. A 2nd luxury is connected to a city but not to the capitol and there are no workers currently working to connect it. If it was connected, another 3 commerce per turn could be saved, giving a net income of 37 with 0.51 efficiency. With sufficient MP in all cities and the 2nd luxury connected there would be no need for luxury tax, removing 2 turns from the current research on the Republic. However, there is a barb camp near that 2nd luxury, it could be that the barbs ate the worker around there.

Swiftsure: His actual luxury tax is 10%, I would have to raise it to 60% to make one of the city happy, so instead I simply consider it will go in disorder on the next turn, loosing the single commerce it contributes. One luxury connected, one with a worker clearing a jungle nearby, and one about 14 worker/turns away. The worker in the jungle still need 5 turns to complete his task before he can move to connect the luxury, thus costing a bit over 30 commerce at the current rate. When these 2 luxuries are connected, he will be set for size 7 cities with temple and no luxury tax.

Theos: He has the lowest income of the bunch, due to his size 8 city without any luxury support. However, that city recently completed the Great Library, which should more than pay back the commerce lost to happiness. A worker is building a road on one luxury, due in 2 turns, and another is working on a 2nd luxury and is likely to get it connect within the next 10 turns. With these 2 luxuries online and the settler coming out of the size 8 city, Theos commerce should start to pick up soon.

Zenga: With the biggest city building a settler, he is probably switching between 10% and 20% and the city size change. A 2nd luxury would allow a flat 10% luxury tax and there is one to be connected when the nearby town expand its border. That is unlikely to happen in the next 10 turns, thus costing him about 50 commerce over the next 10 turns.

As an exercise, I took my game in 775 BC and revolted back to despotism, without changing anything else. As you can see, being a Republic without buildings to multiply your commerce result in much lower income. On the other hand, my size 8 city is producing 13SPT, after corruption in republic instead of 8 in despotism. Republic provides the mean to rush buildings with cash, usually faster than can be rushed with pop under depostism. If this was a scientific civ, I would have pop-rushed the libraries before revolting. I wanted to do the same thing with Cracker's game but I can't handle his save file. So instead I burned all his libraries and marketplaces, the second line is the result, while the 3rd line is with free Shanghai factored out. The higher commerce he has is most likely due to his very dense build.

LKendter: By spending about 400 commerce over 20 turns, the wonder will complete a couple of turns earlier. This may seem like a lot of commerce for a couple of turns, but if he snatches the wonder in the nick of time, it is a small price to pay.


FYI
<Year deleted> (I) Sun Tzu completes in Beijing.
Athens completes the Pyramids.
Zimbabwe completes the great wall.

Nice table Jaxom

I saw the slacker count and had a cow, then realized you were plotting me in anarchy. Clearly the year was picked so as to sling mud at the glorious liberators of the Genghis!!! btw, you noticed my 1K bankroll, non-negative income, and I bet that miserliness costs some turns into space. (Or but the barb uprising horsies into space first!)

Year deleted Industrial era wonder due in 4 turns, the Great Lighthouse is completed in somewhere and the turn it arrives it's already expired

Ya, things are movin' ! I think too the Great Library was built pre-expired or within 5 turns of it, and I'm sure the Oracle was expired on building. The only thing worse would be a pre-expired Colossus!

The other items needed in the next table compiled are...
number of foreign workers, total number of cities, and (cough) the number of civs remaining.

Charis

Well number of workers and cities are on Cracker's table.

Now, why would there be less than 11 civs remaining? Oh no! Don't tell me you gave your China away!

To all the players in the game. The comments I made about each players may be things you already know, but I thought it would help less experienced players to understand the reasoning behind various actions. Feel free to expand on my thoughts, and even set me right where I have it wrong.

(cough) the number of civs remaining.
Hmmm...
<year deleted> A little bit earlier then planned, but England is trying to hook up Saltpeter - WAR.
Our first rider wins his battle. Our GOLDEN AGE has begun.
<year deleted> Well England is technically alive, as they snuck one city on the other continent

Zenga: With the biggest city building a settler, he is probably switching between 10% and 20% and the city size change.

Spot on. Normally, I like to keep cities from growing too large early on (unless completing a Wonder) to avoid unnecessary lux tax. In this case the city was kept large to pump military for a while and meet the barb uprising.

A 2nd luxury would allow a flat 10% luxury tax and there is one to be connected when the nearby town expand its border. That is unlikely to happen in the next 10 turns, thus costing him about 50 commerce over the next 10 turns.

Hey, I'm working on it! Good table, Jaxom.


On the subject of Wonders:

From Charis -

Year deleted Industrial era wonder due in 4 turns, the Great Lighthouse is completed in somewhere and the turn it arrives it's already expired

Ya, things are movin' ! I think too the Great Library was built pre-expired or within 5 turns of it, and I'm sure the Oracle was expired on building. The only thing worse would be a pre-expired Colossus!

The only sure way round this is to build Wonders that don't expire, or at least have a long duration. With the tech pace in this game the Colossus is possibly the most important of those - I hope so, since I'll have it built soon!

zenga

Hey all, Lurking as usual.

I was reading through the FAQ list when I came across mydisease's technology calculation thread . This got me thinking about this game.

Originally posted by mydisease
Research Cost = DOWN{MM/CF * [COST - UP.1(COST*N/DOWN(CL*1.75))]} - Research done so far

Research Cost and research done so far are in gold.

Down Arrow or DOWN() means round down the figure inside the brackets to the next integer.
Up Arrow.1 or UP.1() means round up the figure inside the brackets to the next decimal of .1 ending(can some mathematician tell me how to say that better?)

MM = map modifier(tech rate on world sizes tab in the editor)
Tiny 160
Small 200
Standard 240
Large 320
Huge 400

Click to expand...

but Cracker said in his 2nd post:

Understanding the Map Configuration
The map size tech research rate is set to 120 to correspond to the tech research pace of a standard sized map even though this map is squeezed to fit inside a small outline.

Click to expand...

If both statements are correct, doesn't that mean that techs are 1/2 price? Tech rate should be twice as fast as Cracker intended. The smaller the "tech rate" the CHEAPER the tech! (Should be called Tech Cost instead of Rate?)

Now I know why I have soo much more trouble playing Emperor, and find Monarch a challenge. Little things that Jaxom pointed out in the table are the reasons I find myself lagging behind. Thank you for pointing out why my size 4 cities need temples. A few distractions (War with England twice, and America) and I lose focus on infrastructure.

I have almost completed my barb data and will have something to post tonight. I primarily got my information from the reports so read it over and point out any discrepancies or missed facts.

All I can say now is that barbs are a 2 edged sword. Camps are great when you kill them bad when you don't. Is avoiding camps with strategically placed units the answer? Find out later.

Hotrod

I can see that the entire player field is uploaded and up to date.

I am traveling and in meetings until later today but will try to have the data tables and graphic results up by late this evening or early Wednesday depending on where you are in the world.

@ cracker: this is the next to last scheduled round but do you anticipate this game continuing to completion? I realized that many , Lee & Jaxom , have played ahead and perhaps have even finished. I have only played 10 more turns and working on the next 20 tonight following your charts.

My concern in playing too far ahead was getting left in the dust only to have to pickup some other game to move forward. That being said am I getting smoked ?? I really would like to see this game played to completion. Maybe not with this level of detail, discussion and analysis but completion none the less.

Hotrod

Hotrod, your size 4 cities don't necessarly need a temple. A temple only makes one unhappy citizen content. In some instance, this is not enough to allow for one more citizen in the city. What you need is luxury resources. If that game was on deity, or even emperor, the fur patch would have been my 2nd priority, as luxuries are also a good trading tools to buy tech. At this level, it wasn't a high priority since there are many ways to get a couple of the furs for yourself even if an AI settles in the area.

I think you are doing ok in this game, I believe you have the second highest city count at this point and you have a reasonable layout. Don't get distracted by wars unless you have a specific objective. If you are going to fight Liz, then at least destroy or capture York and claim the wines for yourself. If you don't plan on making a temple in Shanghai anytime soon, it may be worth it to spend a worker to connect one of the spices via a colony. You are not getting smoked, improve the strong core you have and results will pour in.

Charis, you were wondering about Jaxom's strategy before. No Rider upgrades for him, he has his eyes on the prize! What's the VC for this map? It's not domination...

Zed, indeed, he is a clever guy, even for a treehugger!!

(Shhhh.... don't tell anyone, but... I've got my eye the prize too, and did NOT research chivalry either! Don't tell anyone or they'll laugh me out of the Warmonger's guild! But on this difficulty, with the stated VC, Chivalry is a poor choice unless you're short on space)

BTW, I confused a comment by meldor (??) along the lines of "wait and you'll see my plan", attributing it to Jaxom and then assuming it was a rider blitz. Weed analysis

Charis

Aye Aye!

Confused with somebody else? Nah, it was a feeble attempt of the Genghis clan to slander the good name of the Ming dynasty. Go back to your plateau Genghis, and stand in awe of the Ming's ingenuity!

I love the riders, if the prize was different I would be getting ready to launch a massive rider expansion program. Shaka, Liz, Gandhi and Lincoln would soon be minor officials in the glorious Chinese empire. As it stands now, I let their cute little civilization live to witness the marvelous future of the empire.