GOTM23 Succession Game [PTW]

denyd
DaveShack
TedJackson (UP NOW - as mentioned:) )
jimmydean (Ondeck - will play 10)

Remember
24Hr to claim "Got It". 48Hr total to post the game but I'll look the other way until 72Hr. If you can't play, post a skip out of kindness.
 
Wow you guys are flying!:goodjob:

Originally posted by denyd
Sorry I forgot to rename the file
:whipped: :lol:

I think TedJackson posted the link about ... posting.:)

The attachment feature has limited file size and most SG games exceed it before the end of the game. It's best to use the Upload File feature at the bottom of the page. Also, if you can, use a zip utility to compress the file before uploading it. The downloads are faster and have built in error checking.

Your progress seems terrific. Have a great game!
 
Errrm...

I'm still playing at the moment CF :)



Ted
 
Guess you're not playing as fast as I thought.:rolleyes:

I edited the above post.
 
Pre-flight checks... OK :goodjob:

Pre-turn
Stop Settler (just in case)

Press button...

1 - 2550BC
Warrior moves back to Makkah
Worker road
Settler S
Eastern scout S,W
Northern Warrior NE - spots cultural border (can't tell who, might be India)
Southwestern scout SE
Northwestern scout 2W (ends on hill)
Persia has the Wheel - can trade IW for the Wheel + 60gp
Zulu down Alphabet & IW
Carthage & France both down Pottery, IW & Mysticism
Ottoman & Egypt both down Alphabet, IW & Mysticism
Sell IW to Persia for the Wheel + 60gp (no gpt available)
Switch research to Writing at min (if I spot a GH I'll switch to Maths before popping)

IBT
Makkah Warrior - Settler

2 - 2510BC
Turn off City Governors :)
Warrior heads after Settler
Warrior fort Makkah
Madinah founded - Scout
Eastern scout W, NW
Southwestern scout E
Northwestern scout W. S (hill)
No deals on offer. Everbody except Persia is still behind in tech

3 - 2470BC
Northwestern scout SE, S (Jungle)
Southwestern scout SE
Eastern scout 2S - spots another river close by :)
Northern Warrior NE - still can't tell who's there
Makkah is now at pop 4 (1h, 2c, 1u)
No deals around and tech status remains the same
The founding of our second city has produced a sharp increase in the Score & Power histographs

4 - 2430BC
Northwestern scout W (Jungle, Dyes)
Southwestern scout S - finds Carthage
Worker road - SW
Eastern scout SE, S (Horses on hill)
Northern Warrior NE - finds Delhi & we contact India - They are polite and behind Masonry, Pottery, The Wheel, IW & Mysticism - they only have 10gp in the bank :)
Nothing new on the trading front

Carthage ask us to leave

5 - 2390BC
Northwestern scout S (Jungle)
Southwestern scout NE
Worker road
Eastern scout 2SW
Northern Warrior N

6 - 2350BC
Northern Warrior N
Warrior fort Madinah
Eastern scout SE, W (mountain)
Southwestern scout NE (hill, Horses)
Northwestern scout W, S
Makkah pop 5 - Lux 10%
No trades

IBT
Makkah Settler - Madinah Scout - Worker

7 - 2310BC
New Scout NW, W
Settler heads here

Eastern scout W, N
Southwestern scout E, SE
Northwestern scout SW
Northern Warrior NE
Lux 0%
No trades

8 - 2270BC
Worker road - irrigate
New Scout W, N
Eastern scout 2S
Southwestern scout S
Northwestern scout 2W
Northern Warrior E
No trades

9 - 2230BC
New Scout 2N
Southwestern scout S
Eastern scout S, SW
Northwestern scout N, NE
Northern Warrior SE
No trading opportunities

10 - 2190BC
Settler arrives on-site
New Scout N, NW
Southwestern scout SE
Eastern scout W, S
Northwestern scout N, NE
Northern Warrior E
No trades

World Map


Local Map


Notes
We're looking in fine shape. Our second settler is in place to found next turn, we are the joint tech leader with Persia, there's some nice land to settle in every direction.
We should probably build Warrior, Barracks, Warrior, Warrior in our city to the North as the one thing we lack is military. Makkah & Madinah can churn out Workers & Settlers between them forever.
We have Iron nearby but will need to stretch to the South or East for Horses.
I would be tempted to pop a Worker from Makkah after the current Settler just to get tile improvements underway.

The save is > here <


Ted
 
denyd (Ondeck)
DaveShack
TedJackson
jimmydean (UP NOW - please play 10)

Remember
24Hr to claim "Got It". 48Hr total to post the game but I'll look the other way until 72Hr. If you can't play, post a skip out of kindness. [/B][/QUOTE]
 
Ted, looking good! :)

I do have a question about the setter going N, isn't 5.5 distance a little far on desert soil? Is it to leave the other goat for another city at 3NW, 1N?

And what, do you have a 25 inch monitor to zoom out that far, or are you stitching together the screenshots? :)
 
Actually the reasons for going North were to crowd Persia and to maximise the hills and mountains for later and I didn't want to stretch to the Southeast quite so soon. We could plant another 4NW,1W (not intentionally RCP, it quite often works out like that early on) to grab those Olives.

Yep, the screenshots are stitched :) I don't normally bother doing it but it only takes five minutes so I thought "Why not?" :)


Ted
 
Have a look > here < for a very useful resource chart originally produced by ControlFreak.


Ted
 


Here is a proposed layout for the next couple of cities and the reasons for each:

City # 3 (Pink X): To start northern expansion to hem in Persia & claim goats / lambs
City # 4 (Dark Blue X): Pushing westward and cutting off Carthage eastern movement and claim olives
City # 5 (Light Green X): Pushing east and claiming spices
City # 6 (Light Blue X): Pushing SW and claiming horses

That would put us at 5/8 for a RCP build.


I think it's important for us to get one of the 2 known horse sites, since without them we'll be fighting SW/MI wars!! Also getting one of the two local spices will help our happiness.

I like this start. Good job all.

I am a little iffy about the IW trade to Persia. I'm very glad to get The Wheel, put I fear Immortals in the early game and usually try to delay Persia getting Iron as long as possible.

Also, except for cost any reason why warriors and not spearmen?

Another question: does switching research cost you the accumulated research on an tech, ie 20 turns done on writing and switch to mathematics when you reach a hut. Math is now 40 turns. If you switch back to writing after popping the hut is it still 20 turns or does is revert back to 40 turns costing you the prior research??

We're still missing the Romans and Spain from our contacts list, so let's keep those scouts moving.



PS: This is my first attempt at posting screenshots
:cringe:
 
denyd@ congrats on your first (of many) successful Screen Shot. (Don't get addicted.)

Nice job on the dot map too.

You are correct that you would lose your twenty turns on writing if you switch midstream. I would advice on picking a path and sticking to it.
 
Originally posted by denyd
I am a little iffy about the IW trade to Persia. I'm very glad to get The Wheel, put I fear Immortals in the early game and usually try to delay Persia getting Iron as long as possible.
So am I! For some reason, probably because I cycled through all the civs ending on Egypt, I thought I was selling IW to Egypt not Persia :blush:

Originally posted by denyd
Also, except for cost any reason why warriors and not spearmen?
I like the cheap upgrade to Swords, who defend like spears and have a good offensive capability. If Iron is on hand but not connected then I usually don't build Spears until there's about 2 Warriors for every city.

Originally posted by denyd
Another question: does switching research cost you the accumulated research on an tech, ie 20 turns done on writing and switch to mathematics when you reach a hut. Math is now 40 turns. If you switch back to writing after popping the hut is it still 20 turns or does is revert back to 40 turns costing you the prior research??
No, all research progress is lost. I didn't like doing this but I didn't see any GH during my turn and Writing is too important, especially for expansionist, to not research it. Obviously it's a judgment call if we get to about halfway before finding a GH.

The dotmap is fine. It's almost exactly what I had in mind. I would just move the Light Blue site 1N or 1NW to be on the river.

After these sites are settled then the fresh water to the Northwest and Northeast should be high on our list of priorities.

One thing puzzled me though. Barbs are supposed to be raging but I haven't seen any, yet. :)


Ted
 
One thing about spearmen and barbarians.

If we don't have many of the first, you can be sure we'll see lots of the other when the age changes!

I like the idea of moving the light blue X N to take advantage of the grassland.

If I'm correct the plan is:

City # 1 - settlers & workers
City # 2 - workers & settlers
City # 3 barracks & warriors

Any ideas for the next couple of cities?

Current science is Writing at 40 turn pace. Since we've gotten a pretty good idea that ships won't be very important, let's let the AI go for Map Making and concentrate on another tech branch. How about Philosophy & Code of Laws and Republic then a revolt to improve worker performance and income. If we can get the spices connected, we shouldn't have any happiness problems (though another luxury would be nice). The nearest are the dyes to the west and the silks to the NW.

I'm also wondering about a swordsman (10-15) war against either Carthage for dyes or Ottoman for incense. Carthage has nicer land, but we'd be facing NM's. I'd rather take out the Ottoman and not have to worry about the Siphai later in the game (of course, if Siphai's are an issue, we've probably got lots of other problems). Maybe a quick Persian elimination before Immortals get rolling might not be a bad idea. That would leave the swordsmen in a good position to move on India before the War Elephants arrive on the scene.

A quick look at our opponents UU shows:
France - Musketeer (MA) - a mainly defensive UU
Zulu - Impi (early AA) - already passed their prime
Egypt - War Chariot (AA) - don't fear this one
Ottoman - Siphai (late MA) - hopefully Ottoman history by then
Persia - Immortal (AA) - have to watch out for this one
India - War Elephant (early MA) - can be trouble
Carthage - Num Merc (early AA) - Very good defender w/ok attack
[Yet to meet these]
Rome - Legionaire (AA) - Very good at both attack / defend
Spain - Conquistador (late MA) - a waste of UU

Based on that, it's probably a good plan to move on the Persia / India duo early with swords and use the Ansars for the rest starting with the Ottoman.


Thoughts & comments??

:beer:
 
I have the game, just looking at our plan, will play shortly.

EDIT: Thoughts about your map Denyd:

If we're doing RCP, I'd say a 4/7 would be better than a 5/8. It gives you two good close circles of defendable cities, and then we can expand out from there. Plus, the southwest horses should be on the hill next to the river as opposed to one tile off like you had. Here is output from the crp ring tool:

 
Inherited Turn - 2190BC
Look around, everything looks fine. Military advisor is warning about barbarian tribes near Makkah however.
We know 7 civs, leaving two that we haven't heard from yet.
Our score of 92 puts us just ahead of India, and well behind everyone else :(
All 5 cities on the Top 5 chart are at size 1, so the AI just popped a bunch of settlers. We'll run out of room before too long. Our population of 5 is #1 in the world, but we're already losing the land battle (8th).

Hit enter....

Realize that someone turned on speedy AI movement, as I watch them go flying by. Barbarian appears next to the scout that is just west of our mountain range.
Carthage Settler shows up on the cluster of 3 Wool between our two civs.

While looking at the preferences, I noticed that someone had the gov on by default. Unless we're also going to automate all of our workers, and just sit back while the computer plays both sides for us, the governor should NEVER be on. I also turned on the animate friend/enemy moves, so that we can see what the other civs are doing.

1. - 2150BC
MM Makkah to produce the Settler next turn, as it grows as well.

Plant the settler where he stands, as a 5 ring city won't hurt if we go with 4 later.
Diriyah founded, producing 2/2 food/shields, so start on a quick warrior to defend against the pesky barbs.

Move western scout4 further west away from the barb.
Scout2 near the soon to be Carthage wool heads towards the great dark frontier.
South-Southwest scout3 finds spices near the horses down there.
Far west scout1 heads down the penninsula to see if any civ ended up stuck down there.
Conscript warrior exploring in the northeast finds some Iron half a dozen tiles northeast of Delhi.

All civs are still broke. Egypt is the wealthiest with 25 gold ( I wonder where that came from ;)), but we'd be selling short if we traded.

9/1/0, 199 gold, +11gpt, Writing due in 32.

IBT - Carthage settler moves north out of our view, but will likely settle on the northern wool.


2. - 2110BC
Makkah completes settler. Size 3, growth in 3. 5 spt, so start warrior, due in 2.
Medinah complete worker. Size 1, growth in 7, 1 spt, start worker due in 10.
Worker at Medinah finishes irrigating the flood plains.

Settler starts west for the olives. Warrior moves with him, no need to raise lux.

Scout2 heads south, spots a 6th! wool near Carthage. They already have one hooked up.
Scout4 heads west some more, finds a nice city spot on the west side of that lake north of Carthage.
Scout3 continues south, lots of plains/desert.
Scout1 continues down the penninsula.
Our intrepid warrior hacks his way through the forest northeast of Delhi.

Newly built worker2 moves onto desert goats to road them for the extra cash.
Worker1 starts irrigating the second flood plain near Madinah.

No trade opportunities.

IBT - Barb warrior moves towards Delhi :D


3. - 2070BC
Conscript warrior blunders his way through the mountains, and ends up next to another pissed off Pictish warrior.
Scout1 explorers what is likely a dead end penninsula.
Scout4 is working through the jungle north of Carthage.
Scout2 finds some goats south of Carthage.
Scout3 finds a pair of warriors, luckily on the first move, and quickly about faces.

Is it just me, or is Carthage loaded? They have 6 wool, dyes, fresh water, goats, iron, horses and some really nice bonus grassland. If we don't watch out, they'll become a monster. They've already irrigated 10+ plains, and roaded their country. With all the hills wool around it, Utica will become a monster, with a number of tiles producing 3/3 food/shields (in Republic).
We need to cripple them soon. Of course, they have a monster of a UU, and both their cities are on hills.

Trading goes nowhere. Persia picked up 25 gold, so the camps are definitely out there.

IBT - 2 Spanish warrior go barb hunting, an unescorted Zulu settler follows our scout down the penninsula, and another barb arrives near Delhi.


4. - 2030BC
Makkah builds Warrior, start on Settler. Due in 6, growth to size 4 in 1. 5spt.
Newly built Warrior fortifies in Makkah.

Scout2 finds some Olives near Egypt, but lots and lots of desert.
Conscript finds the Ocean.
Scout4 is discovering more jungle.
The penninsula near Scout1 turns out not to be one, but just a large lake. Discovers on the coast near Zululand.
Scout3 wanders the trackless desert, and discovers a cluster of 3 goats.

Spain has 1 gold, and is down Pottery, The Wheel, Iron Working and Mysticism. She is Cautious.

India has two workers and 10 gold for trade. He is down Masonry, Pottery, The Wheel, Iron Working and Mysticism. He likely doesn't know anyone else to still have his 10 gold and be down so many techs.
I trade Masonry and Pottery for *both* workers and his 10 gold. Those were our least valuable techs, and we pick up to slaves, so I feel it was worth it. There is no way we could've made that had he known anyone else.

Slaves start working on a road towards the hilly goats and Diriyah.

9/1/0 240 gold +10gpt, Writing due in 29.

IBT - Zulu scout shows up east?! of Makkah. They likely know everyone if they already have scouts coming back from the east.
Barb warrior on the outskirts of Diriyah's cultural bounds, but will build in 1.
A pair of barbs head towards Egypt/Carthage.


5. - 1990BC
Scout2 heads away from the not so friendly barbs.
Scout1 circling back towards unexplored territory.
Scout3 still looking in the desert.
Scout4 exploring near the Spanish lands.
Conscript is running from the barbs ;)

France has a worker, but they want Mysticism, Pottery + gold for it, so I decline.

IBT - Barb near Diriyah decides to head towards the warrior/settler that are about to plant.
Barb shows up southwest of Madinah.
Uskudar planted next to the close horses on the southeast. We'll have to grab the far south ones.


6. - 1950BC
Diriyah completes warrior, starts warrior (due in 5, growth in 5).
Newly built warrior fortifes in Diriyah.
Worker1 and worker2 both finish their tasks, head to Makkah to improve it (this could be a 4 turn settler factory eventually).

Scout1 will try and slip through the Zulu lands towards the unxplored.
Scout2 exploring south hoping to find the Romans.
Scout3 finds the southern ocean, and what could be a decent fishing village site one day.
Scout4 clearing jungle.
Conscript wandering.

No trades.

IBT - Both Spanish warriors redlined while killing barbs.
Barb near Diriyah can't decide what to attack, and heads back towards Diriyah.
Zulu scout moving down the mountain range to our east.


7. - 1910BC
Damascus planted next to Olives. Starts warrior, due in 5, growth in 10.

Scout1 discovers that the Zulu have Furs hooked up.
Scout2 finds the Southern Ocean as well, so the Romans may not be south.
Scout3 working his way along the coast.
Scout4 finds a several square clearing of grassland among the jungle.
Conscript plodding along.

France learns Iron Working.
Ottomans and Persia are even with us techwise, but both are broke, so likely researching at max. We're still at 9/1/0, 274 gold, +14gpt. Due in 26.

IBT - Conscript brutally murdered by barbarian warriors.
Before he died, an Indian settler/warrior combo was spotted heading for the Iron near them.
Barb movement, but they haven't attacked us yet. Looks like they're heading to pillage near Makkah.


8. - 1870BC
Warrior4 steps out of Diriyah to lure the barb back that way, and away from the workers who we can't protect just yet.
Madinah changes from worker due in 2 to warrior due in 2, as we need defense.

Scout4 discovers that the clearing is pretty large, and has running water.
Scout2 searching the dark.
Scout3 has the misfortune of running from one barb, and ends up ending his turn next to another.
Scout1 working his way through the nicely roaded and mined Zulu lands.

Slaves begin Irrigating plains near Makkah.

Egypt has learned Iron Working.
Persia has an extra 25 gold (52). Still even on techs.
Carthage has horses hooked up (colony).
Spain picked up 25 gold (26).

IBT - Scout3 is killed.
Barb warrior heads south down the western mountains towards Makkah.


9. - 1830BC
Makkah completes settler, starts warrior. Size 3, 4fpt/5spt. Growth in 3, warrior in 2.

Settler heads east to the spices. No escort yet, as there is a barb 2 squares from Makkah, and we don't want it pillaged.
Diriyah warrior tries to lure the barb to attack him.

Scout2 finds some goats in the fog, but no Rome.
Scout1 is walking through the forest.
Scout4 finds some dyes next to the grassland clearing in the thick jungle west of our civ.

Spain has learned Writing! We are up Communications with Egypt, India, Zulu and Ottomans. Also up Pottery, The Wheel, Iron Working and Mysticism. We have 24 turns to go on our research, so a trade would help quite a bit.

I can get Writing for communication with Ottomans and Egypt, Mysticism, Pottery and 18 gold. I want to keep India isolated for now, so no communcation with him, and I'd like to keep Iron and Horses hidden for as long as possible, so I don't want to trade them. This is a little stiff to pay for at 2nd rate, so I hold off for now. Persia is probably researching this at max as well, so they should have it in the next turn or two. Everyone else is broke, so I can't even buy it and hope to trade it.

IBT - Barb warrior moves next to Makkah, threatening the city along with the workers next to it.
Barb moves next to Madinah.


10. - 1790BC
Madinah completes warrior, set to warrior, due in 5.

I take a gamble, and our warrior in Makkah kills the barb warrior.
Newly build warrior from Madinah heads to escort the settler.
Diriyah warrior heads back towards home.
Scout2 has cleared most of the southern fog, so the Romans must be in the far south east under the Ottomans.
Scout1 and Scout4 meet up and find some more dyes in the jungle.

Persia doesn't have writing? I would've thought they would research/trade it last turn. Everyone is still broke, so we can't trade for it.

The trading is the same as last turn. It's not worth buying Writing when Spain has a monopoly on it. If there were civs flush with cash, sure, but not with only Persia having money, and them likely researching writing anyways, so we'd get shafted in any trade.

315 gold, +13gpt, Writing in 23.


I'm hoping to let Makkah grow a little, and be a 5-7 settler factory. At that size, it could produce the requisite 8 shields per turn, and working both flood plains, produce the 5 food per turn. It'll take 20 turns to get the land improved though, but it can be done.


The save


Here are the pics (all are 1600x1200):

Zoomed out of our land

Zoomed out west

Our pitiful homeland

The Mighty Egyptian and Carthaginian land
 
I got it

I'll review the current conditions and update this post later

:scan:
 
good moves jimmydean :thumbsup:

Well, it looks as if we don't have it all our own way. The arrival of barbs and the potential of Carthage & the Ottomans will ensure that we have a fun time quite soon :)


Ted
 
First the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/SG23-BC1525.zip

Then what happened:

Turn 0: 1790 BC – Quick review of situation – about the same size as most other AI – behind writing to Spain – so off we go – decide to switch to settler in Mekkah

Turn 1: 1790 BC – Dinyah completes Warrior6 starts barracks – Scout2 S in desert – Scout1 N in jungle – Scout4 NW-N heading for southern Spain – Warrior2 N to check out dark territory – Warrior1 returns to Mekkah – Worker1 assist Indian workers in completing irrigate – Indian Workers NW and begin mine – Worker2 joins Indian Workers – trade Mysticism + Pottery + The Wheel to Spain for Writing – research Philosophy – change slider to 100 science (due in 10 turns – bank is 328g + 0gpt)

Turn 2- 1725 BC – Damascus completes Warrior7 – starts barracks – Warrior7 hunting barbs – Warrior4 MP in Diniyah – Workers 1&2 move to connect to Diniyah – Warrior1 MP in Mekkah – Settler & Warrior5 E to mountain – Scout1 W in jungle – Scout4 W-NW avoiding barb – Scout2 E-NE in plains – Only thing interesting in trade talks is Ottoman have Roman contact

Turn 3 – 1700 BC – Persian Warrior/Settler turn W in front of Warrior2 – Worker1&2 build road – Warrior2 N – Warrior7 S – Settler & Warrior5 NE – Scout2 NE-NE finds horses & spices - Scout1 W completes jungle survey – Scout4 N-N – Nothing available to trade

Turn 4 – 1675 BC – Warrior7 SW – Warrior5/Settler NE – Warrior2 NW – Scout4 N-NW – Scout1 E – Scout2 E sees barb then runaway N

Turn 5 – 1650 BC – Mekkah builds settler starts another – Medinah builds Warrior8 starts warrior – settler sent to Medinah to join Warrior8 on journey – Warrior7 S – Workers1&2 complete road move N – Settler/Warrior5 reach city site – Scout1 E – Warrior2 N – Scout4 N-NW spots barb village – Scout2 N-N away from barb – not much to trade

Turn 6 – 1625 BC – Warrior7 S meets Carthage Warrior – Workers1&2 start road – Settler builds Baghdad starts barracks – Warrior5 MP in Baghdad – Warrior2 W completes survey – Scout4 NW-N into Spain territory – Scout1 E – Warrior8 kills barb (takes 1hp damage) – Zulu have Horseback Riding – we’ll wait for the price to drop

Turn 7 – 1600 BC – Indian Workers complete mine sent to road to Baghdad and spices – Warrior8 returns to Medina – Warrior7 S – Warrior6/Settler head SE from Medina – Warrior4 kills barb protecting workers (takes 1hp) - Scout2 N-NE – Scout1 SE – Scout4 NE-E in France – Zulu have acquired Roman contact

Turn 8 – 1575 BC – Warrior4 returns to Diniyah – Workers1&2 complete road move N-NW to road to Damascus – Scout1 E – Scout4 E from France – Scout2 E-E along Ottoman border – Warrior8 MP – Warrior6/Settler to S spices – No new trade opportunities

Turn 9 – 1550 BC – Warrior8 kills barb – Warrior4 MP – Scout4 E-SE in valley – Scout1 E – Scout2 E-SE along Ottoman border – Warrior7 S – Warrior6/Settler SE – Time to trade the other level techs for available cash – Trade Alphabet to Egypt for 25g – Trade Pottery to France for 25g – France tries to blackmail Indian contact, I decline and she backs down

Turn 10 – 1525 BC – switch slider Philosophy due in 1 turn – Mekkah builds Settler starts another – Medinah builds Worker3 starts warrior – Settler sent N to meet Warrior2 – Warrior9 MP – Scout2 cuts corner into Ottoman territory – Scout1 E in jungle – Scout4 S-SE – Warrior6/Settler SW meet barb village – Worker3 SE to road to new city – Our Indian Contact could net both Horseback Riding & Mathematics + gold if next up wants to sell – Philosophy due in 1 – sorry about meeting the barb camp in the south

I'll post a picture and add come analysis tomorrow (later today!!)

:eek:
 
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