240 Gold per lux and backstabs..

I've been a bit unlucky with my friends in vanilla/G&K games. Had a run of about a dozen where i'd be attacked by an ally, despite giving them no reason at all to dislike.

ie. not settling within 10 tiles of their cities (works, until they fill the space and settle right up to my borders anyway).

providing tribute when asked

granting open borders , defensive pacts, research agreements, embassys

forgiving for spying

etc.

Not declared war on anyone myself, being as i am on a science victory.

Yet, my erstwhile ally attacks me in the middle of an active DoF. Their military is slightly stronger than mine at that point. Their attack fails, they offer white peace, then want to be friends again.

Unfortunately i don't have a save game file from just before the attack. But afterwards, my "ally" is willing to pay me 240 gold for luxes. So, they like me about as much is possible to like me, but they still want to kill me..

I suppose they might just have an aggressive AI. They've now declared War on Napoleon, seems they don't want a peaceful game.

Could it be Montezuma you're talking about there?

In any way, this is probably not too uncommon if you haven't taken any cities from them and they're more of an aggressive opportunistic leader type.

I have noticed similar. Even in peaceful science games when I do not declare any wars at all (not even city states) and peacefully trade, accept embassies etc. there are always 1-2 civs that will randomly come to me and declare a war. And I am not even getting a warning.

And later on when I defend myself they are willing to pay huge amount of gold to make peace. Go figure.

AI diplomacy improves in BNW but in terms of G&K it's all about personality. If they have a milataristic personality, Montezuma, Alexander, Augustus then there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.

I think the main thing to remember with SP, is that the AI is in the game specifically to mess with your attempt at winning. They don't really try to win the game themselves, they're there to make it harder/more interesting for you. So yeah. Don't expect happy funtime diplomacy. It just doesn't happen. I mean, its' a game right? So there's one winner and multiple losers. Remember-- the AI is there to try and stop you from winning. The harder the setting the more likely it can actually do so. But yeah, it's not there to be a trading partner or help your long game. Use and abuse them as you will, because that's what it's there for.

This sounds like G&K: Basically you need to have a strong enough military to avoid being DOWed upon in G&K (post last years fall patch to G&K).
In early game, what would be needed to prevent that DOW would be extremely non-efficient if you don't actually use it. So just concentrate on enough to defend yourself; which is mostly ranged units.

I'll get BNW this afternoon and see how it compares. ATM this talk of tall vs wide etc. is beyond me, I only ever build 2 or 3 cities of my own, then i get into a war and the rest of my cities are captured from the AI.

Bismark can be a nightmare for early rush if he gets lucky with barbarians converting to his cause - suddenly he thinks he's the tough guy since he got a carpet of brutes. Monty - well obviously we know what to expect from him. Atilla is the sort of straight up pysychopath you can always trust. Then there's Caesar and Dido for the worst possible kind of "Friend".

b7fanatix said:

ATM this talk of tall vs wide etc. is beyond me, I only ever build 2 or 3 cities of my own, then i get into a war and the rest of my cities are captured from the AI.

Click to expand...

That would be considered a Tall core with a wide puppet state empire attached.
For most purposes (building national wonders & acquiring new social policies) that is just like pure tall.
The only difference is that happiness is more of a concern.

b7fanatix said:

I only ever build 2 or 3 cities of my own, then i get into a war and the rest of my cities are captured from the AI.

Click to expand...

Yes I gave up on 4 cities. In my last couple of games (G&K) I have played as England on Arch maps, and only founded London and York. I've felt a lot happier with that, and it's great to get plenty of SPs. In the last one I went for Dom but could have won a SV a few turns earlier if I'd wanted. I had some reservations in the first game about only having two cities but it played well so I did the same in the last one.

joncnunn said:

That would be considered a Tall core with a wide puppet state empire attached.
For most purposes (building national wonders & acquiring new social policies) that is just like pure tall.
The only difference is that happiness is more of a concern.

Click to expand...

On G&K, Happiness seems easier to manage and I just built courthouses and annexed the lot. Taking bits from tradition and liberty, as well as honor (happiness from defensive buildings in Vanilla/G&K) plus a happy religion is good.

In early game, having more cities makes grabbing "must have" wonders like National College, Great Library and Oxford University harder. Later Science "must haves" like Porcelain Tower and Tower of Pisa don't care how many cities you found and what state they're in.

I also only find myself really needing to expand when oil, coal, uranium and aluminium get discovered, as i find they're not in my borders. I suppose these early game warmongers are doing me a favor really.

My favorite start is on a river with forest.

My research order is Mining, Pottery, Writing, Calendar.

My build order is worker, scout, granary, great library, national college

Get the worker out early along with mining tech so i can build a few farms/mines, then start chopping trees to speed the wonder build. The mix of tradition/liberty depends on circumstance.... if a lot of forest i might take the free Worker option for more chopping... if few lux perhaps i want Tradition's happiness more?

Once NC is up, i beeline composite bows, then on to Civil service (extra food from my river tiles, and a reasonable melee unit that don't require Iron)


Don't imagine this works on harder difficulties ofc, and i have to change it around depending on start location.