Shouldn't there be a Colonial Era...

.... between the Industrial and Modern Eras? Or at least a Social Policy tree for Colonialism?

Aside from the basic "rise of a Nation" kind of empire-building where a growing nation kept adding cities and expanding into the attached frontier and territories, there came a time where the empire-building had a change in character. Along about the late 1600s/early 1700s, nations started to deliberately create Colonies that were pointedly NOT part of the core nation. They were population resettlements for the express purpose of sending resources back to the home nation for the benefit of "real" citizens. (Well, the wealthy and powerful citizens anyway.)

Conquered Cities from other civilizations _almost_ fits the dynamic, having to deal with a resentful population that must be appeased and assimilated. I think just building a Courthouse makes that process happen much too smoothly and quickly. Just look how long and difficult it was for Britain to assimilate the French Canadians of Quebec; an argument could be made that they're _still_ not fully assimilated.

Several nations used Colonies as places to dump their unwanted and troublesome citizens to ease problems at Home. Australia with its Botany Bay "colonists", and also Georgia initially as examples. In other places, the Major civilization/nation simply went to places inhabited only by "savages" and "heathens" and created a Colony for "the indigenous peoples own benefit". Dynamically, there should be a mechanism where such new Cities start out with Unhappy citizens that are prone to rebellion and civil unrest. Such Colonies would also be prime places for foreign nations to send their spies to foment rebellion (with the obvious intent of stepping in to take the original owner's place).

The Industrial Revolution got the ball rolling, but as it developed, the HUGE demand for raw materials to feed the machinery pushed nearly every Major nation/civilization towards the _need_ to build an empire -- whether the distant peoples wanted that expansion and development or not.

This would be an interesting concept, but would also add a lot more to the game (it would require an expansion basically). If they did it well, it could work, but I'm fine with the game without it. If anything, I think happiness is a mechanism for unrest in colonial empires, because it's a lot harder to maintain a big empire than a small one. It's still an indirect relationship though.

To be honest, the Renaissance just about covers a Colonial era. However, the Exploration policy tree (which is rather lacking) could inorporate, or be replaced by, elements of Colonislism.

"Rise of Nations", real-time strategy, 2003

Ancient Age-Classical Age-Medieval Age-Gunpowder Age-Enlightenment Age-Industrial Age-Modern Age-Information Age

Civilization V Expansion "Gods & Kings", 2011

Ancient Era-Classical Era-Medieval Era-Renaissance Era-Industrial Era-Modern Era-Atomic Era-Information Era


I was surprised at how Civ5 is trying to look like "Rise of Nations" with the G&K tech tree and now with trade units, with a new Era thrown in it wouldn't sound creative.

Ancient Era-Classical Era-Medieval Era-Renaissance Era(15th-16th century)-Colonial Era(16th-17th century)-Modern Era-Information Era

Viregel said:

To be honest, the Renaissance just about covers a Colonial era. However, the Exploration policy tree (which is rather lacking) could incorporate, or be replaced by, elements of Colonialism.

Click to expand...

End Renaissance-Industrial Era is closer to that of the imperialist world. I agree with what you said about Exploration tree, which I see as a lacking "Colonialism" tree.

Perhaps we could remove the great admiral policy in exploration, and replace it with something that buffs cities on your non starting continent? That might be a way to both buff exploration and transform it in to an exploration in to colonization tree?

Your cities are basically colonies...especially so in Civ V where the AIs can build cities so far away from their capitals

I said "rise of a Nation" (as a country's name) because, to be honest, I don't like RTS. At all. I actually felt that RoN was imitating Civ, but be distinctly different by being RTS instead of turn-based.

I can easily see the difficult of inserting a whole 'nother era, just because they'd have to juggle the tech tree, pulling techs in from the bookend eras as well as creating several others, just so the era was substantial enough. (As opposed to, blink and it's already over.)

The key element of Colonialism is that generally, most of the colonists do NOT want to be a part of the Home Country anymore than the Home Country wants to make the colonists full-fledged citizens. Nearly always, colonists get treated like second-class citizens for a _long_ time. The original residents generally got treated even worse; third-class citizens at best. And generally overall, once Colonialism starts, nearly all national expansion is Colonies rather than a Home-centric fleshing out of the immediately attached frontier.

Another interesting aspect would be, given a Colony does successfully break away from the Home Country, there is a distinct possibility that it will itself become a late-appearing civilization in its own right. (That pretty much describes the USA.)

Civ 4 had colonies and I enjoyed it greatly. That is one thing I feel is really missing from this game, but I believe it is too late for them to add in now. Maybe Civ 6.

Hmm, I think city flipping could do this in a sense. I don't really like the fact that a city can rebel, and then allow itself to get razed with no opposition to your rule, or rebel, and then spend 20 turns in rebellion when you get it. This is bad from both the perspective of the civ gaining the city (20 turns of unhappiness and rebellion for an undefendable city? No thanks!) and for the city itself (This government wants to raise us to the ground? No thanks!). I think a flipped city should instead become its own independent nation get a few troops, and generate 1 hammer of additional tourism to the civ that it broke from (to the ideology it chose). It should also have a bias towards having newer cities rebel. Even if it's treated as some mid level nation (between city state and civ status), it would be better than what we have now. Every city that breaks from that specific civilization becomes part of this newly formed nation.

Maybe you're looking for Colonization?

I think remaking the Exploration Tree into something akin to Colonization would be a brilliant idea. Maybe a policy that boost the Food/Hammer yield of Caravans/Cargo Ships? Or, since the OP says that colonies were made often to send resources back to the core cities, provide a bonus to the capital city based upon the resource diversity of the other cities?

The current game isn't designed to handle these things, although there are a few ways they could hack it in. I'm not sure if it would be worth it, though; there's just no good way using the current system to represent colonialism and colonial revolt/independence.

As was mentioned, Civ 6, maybe. I believe the overhaul is doable, but implementation would require a LOT of work. But as the devs are most likely contemplating the next expansion, perhaps a Colonialism Social Policy tree (to reflace or reform the Exploration tree) is probably possible. But in order to validate the need to create a #6 edition, there has to be some MAJOR changes. This idea could be one of those changes. Best to plant the seed now and give them the chance to weigh the pros and cons in depth.

i think there should be an enlightment era betwen renicanse and industrial era.

Somebody should mod a civ that has ability to attract unhappy people from other's civ's cities.

One thing I do wish was in the game is a way to claim land without building a new city, and that could possibly be implemented into a colonial system.

ollethegreat said:

i think there should be an enlightment era betwen renicanse and industrial era.

Click to expand...

Renaissance means "revival" or "rebirth", but in many ways, it was an era of Enlightenment in many, many fields. Science, Philosophy, Higher Mathematics, Medicine, as well as Art.

If England had not sent her unwanted neer do wells to Botany Bay. I wouldn't be here. Transportation instead of hanging is a great idea

Colonisation happened alobgside the renassiance, not after industrial. It was acrossover between the end of ren and start of indus. By the time industrial era was underway it was mainly just the scramble for africa left for colonies. It also happened because europe were runaway tech leaders whilst large parts of the world had only just got one or two medieval techs. This very rarely happens in game. The amount of work needed to implement would be too much for sonething that will only get used once or twice in a hundred games

I think the largest problem is the fact that industral comes directly after renessiance. If there would be a "colonialism era" (1600-1850), it should be after renessaince and before industral. "Modern" age is also pretty weird, since it really means the beginning of 20th century...