ALC Game #23 Pre-Game Show: Playing as Lincoln

In the next ALC game, I'll be playing as Abraham Lincoln, leader of the United States of America--one of the new/old leaders added in the Beyond the Sword expansion pack. (Old because for us Civ veterans, Lincoln was included as a leader of American in previous versions.) The purpose of this thread is to discuss, before the game, how to best exploit this particular leader's characteristics, which is the main feature and purpose of the ALC series. Just so we're clear, I'm playing with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack with its most recent official patch (3.17).

Here's the fact sheet:

• Traits: Philosophical (Great People birth rate increased 100 percent, double production speed of University.) and Charismatic (+1 happiness per city, -25% XP needed for unit promotions, +1 happiness from Monument, Broadcast Tower).
• Starting Techs: Fishing and Agriculture
• Unique Unit: Navy SEAL (Replaces Marine; Strength: 24, Movement: 1, Cost: 160; Unique Characteristics: 1-2 first strikes, starts with March)
• Unique Building: Mall (Replaces Supermarket; Cost: 150; Unique Characteristics: +10% wealth, +1 happiness from hit musical, hit single, hit movie)

I'll be playing with Choose Religions on, just for flavour. I'm thinking of taking the new tectonics map type out for a spin. I've generated a few and have mixed feelings about them, but I acknowledge that they look challenging, and some said at the end of the recent Saladin game that I've benefited from some very helpful starts in some games. The game speed will be Epic, as usual. I'm considering moving up to Immortal difficulty level, so we should discuss that as well.

Many are recommending using Lincoln for the move to Immortal because he has such awesome traits. Philosophical means I'll be running a specialist economy; that's a no-brainer. Cheap universities are nice too. I'll want to make sure I have all the necessary libraries built before Education; since I'll be running a SE, that shouldn't be too hard. Then I'll want to roll out the universities quickly. The chief benefit there is to be able to build Oxford faster, just because I have the prerequisite buildings in place.

Charismatic helps ease the move to Immortal because of the +1 happy citizen in each city. (Not that the base happiness changes from Emperor--it doesn't--but it's helpful nonetheless, and the fact that monuments also add happiness doesn't hurt either.) I usually like to build monuments rather than building Stonehenge just because they keep producing culture all game (and 2 culture after 1000 years). In the late game with a Charismatic leader, however, I like to build the Eiffel tower to quickly leverage the broadcast tower's benefits.

The other benefit of Charismatic, of course, is that the units get promoted more rapidly and after winning fewer battles. The best way to leverage the trait is to keep warring. As a result, you may see a ALC game in the grand old tradition where I spend the early game conquering my land mass and then set my sights on others later on. We haven't seen a conquest victory in an ALC in a long time--Lincoln may be the leader to try that with. Then again, if I go to Immortal level, is that realistic?

Also, I don't want this to turn into a single-minded slugfest like the Shaka game. As many of you have pointed out, Lincoln's traits are quite flexible. And since I'm considering playing at a higher difficulty level, I shouldn't go counting chickens. We'll take things as they come, as always.

(Sidebar: I have, in fact, played with this trait combination before. Michelle Jean, in Wyz_sub10's Canada Mod, has the same traits. In fact, Canada and America are strikingly similar. Both start with Fishing (Canada has Hunting instead of Agriculture), and both have a late UU/UB combination. Canada's UB is also a variation on the Broadcast Tower, which is a pseudo-UB for Charismatic leaders. So this game should feel eerily familiar to me.)

The starting techs, Agriculture and Fishing, allow for the quick, early growth that the Charismatic trait supports. I'll be hoping for a coastal start with a seafood and a grain resource; if I get it, Washington may end up becoming the GP farm. The palace may be moved to a better location for cottaging to leverage the Bureaucracy civic. But we'll see what the map has in store, of course.

Now it's your turn...

Looking forward to this game (Lincoln is my favorite leader.)
IIRC the Mall is +20% wealth, not 10%.
I think you should roll a more watery map so you can fully leverage the UU (3 continents + hemispheres? and a check to make sure you're not isolated)

Lets just hope this ALC doesn't last 2 months and end up with over 1000 posts

Charismatic is a great warmonger trait, I go back and forth between it and aggressive being the best (agg probably best for war, but charismatic is versatile and opens up some early game power via the boost).

The basics are to get monuments everywhere or stonehenge (depends on start IMO). Stonehenge will get you an early prophet - in my AP games I use it to bulb theology often (in addition to the powerful build the AP in an uncommon religion the switch to a dominant one trick, more conservative players can merely use it for the XP). Early access to CR II and counter promos can be quite useful.

Philosophical means earlier/more GP's. Traditional use is scientists. Again this is style dependent for you. If you run cottages then you can just GL GP farm out scientists en' masse, making academies/settling (with a few choice bulbs). Otherwise you can be a bit more aggressive with philosophical (if you get stone) by going pyramids for SE and really pushing that aspect of Lincoln.

The American UB/UU are late and I mainly find use for the UU on water maps - although tectonic can certainly grant you one depending on the options. SEALS are incredible, on water maps I often use marines/navy exclusively anyway so they're a powerful boost.

Washington and Lincoln are very versatile leaders so alot depends on the map and your style.

Abe is incredibly strong, as all 3 of the American leaders. Some suggestions

1) Stay at Emperor on epic speed or jump to Immortal on Marathon Speed.

2) In the ALC spirit, this game needs to go into the modern era to land your seals and shop at the Mall.

3) In light of point #2 I think a continental map is on order.

4) The power of the American UB is the extra happiness (Malls are +1 happy from movies/shows/tunes, then there's broadcast towers, and the movie/tune/show itself)That's +9 happy from those three resources with a tower and mall.

5) The American's are well positioned to abuse corps because of the +20% gold from the Mall. The Philosophical trait allows late GPs of choice (GMs and GEs) so we want to see several corps before you start pounding overseas, speaking of

6) Continent or Hemisphere map please. Let's see those seals assault coastal cities, then move inland for the kill while they heal on the march! By that point your seals should have 3-4 promotions from the start (charismatic) plus the first strike and free amphibious and march promotions. Go make America proud!

7) One last itme, Abe's cities should be some of the most massive in the game because of the UB/charismatic trait, Corp GP's (for one of the food techs). The UB extra gold would allow you to run Environemntalism over Free Market so teh corps do no bankrupt you.

4) The power of the American UB is the extra happiness (Malls are +1 happy from movies/shows/tunes, then there's broadcast towers, and the movie/tune/show itself)That's +9 happy from those three resources with a tower and mall.

Click to expand...

Actually it is 10 if you count with the Cha bonus on Broadcast towers

Well, Abe is one of the most war favoured by the game, leading almost naturally to a war SE. Too bad that both the UU and the UB ( both extremely powerful ) come so late....

Besides all that, start with Mining and worker/WB

So I was just going to subscribe to the thread using the subscribe tool but I thought I might as well subscribe through nit-picking: it's Michaelle Jean (or Michaëlle Jean, umlauts and all, so it's like Mika-el really), not just Michelle

At least I write Jaoa correctly *holds bait above r_rolo1's head* (yes this is a joke).

suggestion: a lot of this discussion would be more relevant if we could at least see the starting position (ie is it coastal? food plentiful?)

on a more helpful note:

charismatic is the second strongest trait in the game. use the extra happiness wisely. city spam really is the way to go. make sure you claim the blocking sites first. immortal is a huge step up in that regard, you have to be a lot more careful about city placement.

the other aspect you may want to concentrate on (given the surroundings) is fog-busting. on immortal if there is a lot of empty land, you will be swamped with barbs, so get the fog-busters out quickly. barbs were the main cause of failure for my first immortal games (now it is more being back-stabbed by sury )

I would stick to Emperor.. given that it took you 11 games on Monarch to move up a level and you played half as many so far on Emperor, what's the rush?

tycoonist: he needs to decide on the difficulty and map type before he can roll a start

Do not move up in difficulty. Until you can comfortably win by playing a defensive protective game, at least.

More seriously, if you're comfortable with the play style and the difficulty level, it gives you more leeway to extend the game to Malls and Seals, respectively.

That being said, SE and war seems like the no-brainer here. With late game UU and UB, the early game will be fairly baseline.

Another possible consideration -- a larger map with more Civs, so that there will still be serious competitors by the Seal era.

Edit:
With 3.17, Seals and their free march are worth a bit more since you can't use Siege for collateral damage without landing them.

Stay on Emperor, and try out a Tectonics map.

I feel that at Immortal and Deity, the game starts to play very weirdly i.e. you have to be very aggressive, and it limits the game as well as your playstyle options. Just my opinion.

Also, Lincoln is one of my favorite leaders.

Please don't slow down even further to marathon. Everything takes forever on that speed and the AI doesn't know how to handle the skewed costs of units and buildings very well.

Charismatic gives you great early game flexibility due to the +2 in every city (with a monument). That's extra room under the happy cap for whipping, and makes monarchy a lower priority than it would be otherwise, leaving you free to spend your beakers elsewhere. Stonehenge is attractive with a charismatic leader since you'll want a monument in every city eventually, but unless you've got specific plans for an early prophet it's going to cause significant pollution when paired with philosophical (you'll almost certainly get at least one prophet before the scientists take over), so I'd probably skip it based on that.

I wouldn't get too carried away with the whole philosophical = SE approach by the way. A lot will depend on the map/neighbours, but the main advantage the trait gives you is in rapid GS generation without necessarily having to rely overly on pacifism/Great Library to accumulate . A hybrid economy with 2-3 cities running scientists and the rest a mixture can get you to liberalism very quickly and catapult you into a significant military lead ready for a Renaissance war. If moving up to Immortal, leveraging that approach will make things easier - the best times for warfare then are typically with axes or in the Renaissance once a beeline has got you a military edge.

It'd be nice to see the game last until the modern era, and to have the AIs on more than one landmass to give the UU a chance to shine, but that obviously isn't easy to plan for from the get go.

Are you going to go with 3.17?

tycoonist said:

suggestion: a lot of this discussion would be more relevant if we could at least see the starting position (ie is it coastal? food plentiful?)

Click to expand...

Since time immemorial, the ALCs have had a pre-game thread where we can discuss the civ/leader in the abstract, and a game thread where we look at how to apply the theory to a specific reality. So no, you won't see a start posted in a pre-game thread. The game will start this weekend or thereabouts.

Bandobras Took said:

Do not move up in difficulty. Until you can comfortably win by playing a defensive protective game, at least.

More seriously, if you're comfortable with the play style and the difficulty level, it gives you more leeway to extend the game to Malls and Seals, respectively.

That being said, SE and war seems like the no-brainer here. With late game UU and UB, the early game will be fairly baseline.

Another possible consideration -- a larger map with more Civs, so that there will still be serious competitors by the Seal era.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm still tempted to stick to Emperor. I actually lost my first 3.17 off-line game.

As for the larger map--it's tempting, since my new computer can handle larger maps, but I usually play standard size out of consideration for everybody who has a less powerful computer but still wants to shadow the game.

schwartz said:

Looking forward to this game (Lincoln is my favorite leader.)
IIRC the Mall is +20% wealth, not 10%.
I think you should roll a more watery map so you can fully leverage the UU (3 continents + hemispheres? and a check to make sure you're not isolated)

Click to expand...

Did they change the mall in one of the patches?

I'm leaning towards a hemispheres map as you said, since everybody's advocating that or continents to ensure that the late UU and UB see some action. As for isolation, again, with the late UU and UB, I don't think isolation would be as much of an issue for Lincoln. And with him being Philosophical, he's well-positioned to pull off an Early Astronomy Gambit (TM).

Play on Immortal for your first start-if that fails, don't feel bad going back to emperor (my suggestion).

Oh yeah, just run a specialist economy while warring to take advantage of both traits.

patagonia said:

Please don't slow down even further to marathon. Everything takes forever on that speed and the AI doesn't know how to handle the skewed costs of units and buildings very well.

...

Are you going to go with 3.17?

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I'm going to stick with Epic speed for the ALCs, though I'm enjoying Marathon games off-line now. Of course, I usually play Advanced Starts in those off-line games, because otherwise the early, uneventful turns drive me crazy.


And I have already upgraded to 3.17 and have started a thread to discuss the changes and their effects on strategy and tactics.

I'd recommend moving towards Immortal.

Also, I would recommend using more espionage in this game.

Slightly off-topic but a good way to subscribe:

Just finished a Roosevelt game and just before Industralism (marathon so still quite a while) I got an event that either gave all my gunpowder units march or allowed +2 permanent happy. Not thinking (or rather, not caring since happy was no longer an issue) I choose the march promotion which basically made my Navy SEAL not so special after all.

Anyway, I am curious whether this game, especially if conquest is attempted, will end up making heavy use of the Navy SEAL and Mall. Given the changes in 3.17 (siege cannot attack (or is it just collateral...), and cavalry cannot withdraw, from ships) amphibious is a much more important promotion for quick coastal warfare (as are carriers).

Keep in mind once you hit Guilds the grocer (a pre-requisite for the Mall/Supermarket) becomes available. Since/If you are going a war-like path you also get knights and access to banking for banks. One possible result is to head for CoL and focus on merchants instead of scientists and then head for economics for Wall Street. With an SE democracy is less important to take early while you need constitution for corporation anyway (as well as education and philosophy is nice though somewhat optional if you are warring early).

A lot depends on what the map gives us to work with of course.

Re: # of Civs; I would think more civs (given a constant map size) would make life easier on the human - and turn the game into a slug-fest probably since you'll have more smaller opponents instead of a few large ones.

Hmm, a late game uber uni with a late game uber building, sounds like you want to be investing your great people and great generals for long term payoffs.

What's the right way to take advantage of the stupidly happy american mall rats?

Bandobras Took said:

That being said, SE and war seems like the no-brainer here. With late game UU and UB, the early game will be fairly baseline.

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Keeping in mind the 'role playing' element in ALC's and that the AI Lincoln is one of the most peaceful players in the game, (if not the most peaceful, he's up there with Sitting Bull re: low likelihood of war declarations) I would advocate going for a late game UN victory. (not AP since Lincoln is also one of the least religious) So a peaceful early game and then crush whoever stands in your way late game to get elected when diplomacy fails.
Of course, everything is map/situation dependent but this might be a suitable 'tone' for the Lincoln game.

I rarely build Stonehenge, but this is a combination of traits where I would prioritize it if the map makes it at all feasible.