Shark Diver
King
When I get back to this game (2 months after my last entry due to not knowing how to progress once Keshiks do only 6x2 damage)
.I only had about 10 built I think.
The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game #8 - Mongolia
- Thread starter DingleBirdy
- Start date
Acken
Deity
Bah what you guys are you doing with your cities ? I mean if you plan to win with Keshiks there's not that much stuff to make.
consentient
Domination!
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Cities build wealth, of course! 
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Well I've thrown in the towel, there's no warmonger talent in me 
Spoiler :
I would really recommend more, I think i had 14-15 chariot archers at turn 99 where my research was enough to upgrade them to keshiks. However I actually did remember i lacked money to upgrade the last one of them, so had to wait a few turns before that was ready. I then continued to build more keshiks as well, I think it really beneficial to a few more than actually going to shoot each turn so you can rotate your units out with losing speed in your push.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
After taking a breather to take the entry exam for a job position at Microsoft no less, I restarted this map and there's about a million things that went the other way:
Spoiler :
consentient
Domination!
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Turn 211 Domination
Slower than some, but I get sloppy when I've got 5 capitals and it's obvious I'm going to win before ideologies.
No difficulties this play through. The difference between my first attempt, which stalled after 2 capitals, and this one, is I have a lot more experience as a warmonger, and I went Honor-Commerce rather than Liberty.
Slower than some, but I get sloppy when I've got 5 capitals and it's obvious I'm going to win before ideologies.
No difficulties this play through. The difference between my first attempt, which stalled after 2 capitals, and this one, is I have a lot more experience as a warmonger, and I went Honor-Commerce rather than Liberty.
consentient,
So do you think honor-commerce is better than libery-commerce? It looks like games take longer that way (well judging by peddroleum's games) but honor has some really nice warmonger bonuses. Combine that with autocracy and we have a winner
So do you think honor-commerce is better than libery-commerce? It looks like games take longer that way (well judging by peddroleum's games) but honor has some really nice warmonger bonuses. Combine that with autocracy and we have a winner
consentient
Domination!
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I think that Honor-Commerce makes way more gold and is way more fun. I also think that there are some maps, and some situations, where it is better to either go Liberty or Honor.
This is definitely something that can be discussed a lot more...
...but in rough terms, I think that:-
- Liberty gets going faster: if you want (or need) to war earlier, then obviously self-founding 3-5 cities and making archers and selling luxes for a CB rush will generate more hammers and more gold before T100.
- Honor pays better: sometimes you can be T100-120 in a liberty sweep and be really low on cash, even having started into Commerce. Earning money for every kill is what makes Honor a viable strategy for Dom on Deity. Bear in mind that from T130 onwards I had almost no gold from trades because everyone hated me.
- Liberty might be a BIT quicker, but not by much in most cases: In this game, for example, a better player could have gone Honor and still finished around T150-160. I was just really sloppy pushing through the Hunnic and Polish lands because I was tired and wanted the game done. I lost nearly all the Keshiks I built and finished the game with Artillery. A faster player could finish the game with the UU. Also, if you are on a continents map and need to buy or build some promoted ships, Honor is way better. I played a game last week where I had 3 continents, and buying 10 ships in a few turns allowed me to take 4 capitals in 28 turns and end the game.
- Liberty has more happiness problems before the Commerce finisher. Nuff said. Liberty kinda needs you to not raze too many cities to be worth doing, and nothing makes warmongering easier than razing. And if you look at my mini map on the winning turn you can see how empty the map is.
- Honor synchs way better with Autocracy, and anyone who's gotten as far as the Big Ben/Mobilization/Honor finisher combo will know that there is a nice strategy to snowball in the end game and just completely punish the AI (which they deserve!)
This is definitely something that can be discussed a lot more...
...but in rough terms, I think that:-
- Liberty gets going faster: if you want (or need) to war earlier, then obviously self-founding 3-5 cities and making archers and selling luxes for a CB rush will generate more hammers and more gold before T100.
- Honor pays better: sometimes you can be T100-120 in a liberty sweep and be really low on cash, even having started into Commerce. Earning money for every kill is what makes Honor a viable strategy for Dom on Deity. Bear in mind that from T130 onwards I had almost no gold from trades because everyone hated me.
- Liberty might be a BIT quicker, but not by much in most cases: In this game, for example, a better player could have gone Honor and still finished around T150-160. I was just really sloppy pushing through the Hunnic and Polish lands because I was tired and wanted the game done. I lost nearly all the Keshiks I built and finished the game with Artillery. A faster player could finish the game with the UU. Also, if you are on a continents map and need to buy or build some promoted ships, Honor is way better. I played a game last week where I had 3 continents, and buying 10 ships in a few turns allowed me to take 4 capitals in 28 turns and end the game.
- Liberty has more happiness problems before the Commerce finisher. Nuff said. Liberty kinda needs you to not raze too many cities to be worth doing, and nothing makes warmongering easier than razing. And if you look at my mini map on the winning turn you can see how empty the map is.
- Honor synchs way better with Autocracy, and anyone who's gotten as far as the Big Ben/Mobilization/Honor finisher combo will know that there is a nice strategy to snowball in the end game and just completely punish the AI (which they deserve!)
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
consentient
Domination!
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Nice one stormtrooper! Just one more finish and you make the front page
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Feel free to add to an adjacent field that this is my first ever domination win
anyway:
anyway:
Spoiler :
consentient
Domination!
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Sure, I'll add it for you!
I was lucky that
I was lucky that
Spoiler :
Fluphen Azine
What is Fluphen Azine?
I am proud of my little heavenly peacemonger turned evil warmonger. This wasn't exactly what I had in mind for Domination Game since this is one very OP Civ for Dom. However it is still respectful and a very good warm up for some Bribe/Warmonger Games. Although now for my first truly no bribe peaceful CV you have to give me the same OP set up which I am guessing will be Brazil huh?
One might think DCL 10 would be a hard warmonger map but I guess since I got a Domination Victory on it we can't say that it is not. I would think DCL 10 would be a very hard CV without Bribes but I know players showed how easy it was to get a CV on DCL 10.
Anyway my point is that I need an equivalent map that is set up for OP Peacemonger CV like this is for Warmongering, at least for my first attempt at posting Peacemonger no Bribe CV?
Lately the boards have been a little bit sensitive so I want you to know I am not knocking this game/win/attempt that you are playing I am just asking that I get to post my first game/win or loss/attempt at a peacemonger CV with something that is as equal to this game for warmongering.
I was trying hard for many attempts at the Poland Map without bribes but it might be mission impossible for me but I still think I can get the world to all DOW me one by one and I take over the map and force a CV without any Bribes... However, you did suggest a few others but I have prior knowledge of all maps since I either won/lost or attempted each DCL so far and the Inca map was a wrapped up SV that I decided to not finish getting to about turn 250ish I think when I played it.
I was planning on the next DCL for my attempt but since Consentient suggested it was a bad map for our attempts it might be better for me to wait for Brazil since they are most likely one of the best Peacmonger CV civs I would think but you can correct me if I am wrong? In fact what is your top 5 civs for peacemonger CV? I know it is more about the map compared to the Civ but you know what I mean?
Perhaps you could post up a map with a good set up for No Bribe Peaceful CV on the IDS thread since nobody has posted a map in around 3 weeks or so and I can play that one since I would have no knowledge and you could kinda help set the map to tip the odds in my favor?
One might think DCL 10 would be a hard warmonger map but I guess since I got a Domination Victory on it we can't say that it is not. I would think DCL 10 would be a very hard CV without Bribes but I know players showed how easy it was to get a CV on DCL 10.
Anyway my point is that I need an equivalent map that is set up for OP Peacemonger CV like this is for Warmongering, at least for my first attempt at posting Peacemonger no Bribe CV?
Lately the boards have been a little bit sensitive so I want you to know I am not knocking this game/win/attempt that you are playing I am just asking that I get to post my first game/win or loss/attempt at a peacemonger CV with something that is as equal to this game for warmongering.
I was trying hard for many attempts at the Poland Map without bribes but it might be mission impossible for me but I still think I can get the world to all DOW me one by one and I take over the map and force a CV without any Bribes... However, you did suggest a few others but I have prior knowledge of all maps since I either won/lost or attempted each DCL so far and the Inca map was a wrapped up SV that I decided to not finish getting to about turn 250ish I think when I played it.
I was planning on the next DCL for my attempt but since Consentient suggested it was a bad map for our attempts it might be better for me to wait for Brazil since they are most likely one of the best Peacmonger CV civs I would think but you can correct me if I am wrong? In fact what is your top 5 civs for peacemonger CV? I know it is more about the map compared to the Civ but you know what I mean?
Perhaps you could post up a map with a good set up for No Bribe Peaceful CV on the IDS thread since nobody has posted a map in around 3 weeks or so and I can play that one since I would have no knowledge and you could kinda help set the map to tip the odds in my favor?
Certainly if I go warmonger with the Mongols (once I have more experience then I can do it with more generic civs) then you should start your CV with a civ that is good at it! (well, the Brazil map, once it comes out, I'm going to suggest you don't settle in place but head north, you'll see what I mean)
But if you don't want to wait, the Inca DC or China DC is perfect for turtle peaceful CV on deity... I can also dig up some maps of my own if you don't like replaying (I had some crazy Polynesia maps saved up but that was before the latest patch).
We all need to start from the easier maps first when playing for a new VC (and I picked Brazil simply because I feel CVs are too rare in the DC series; would like to encourage more players to try it!)
My top 5 would easily be:
Brazil (although playstyle-wise Brazil is unique; you focus more on science and less on diplomacy/midgame wonders which to me, makes CV a little less fun when using them)
Polynesia (if there is coast at all; basically they get "free" landmarks for their NVC city)
Maya
Inca
Egypt/Celts (depending on the terrain; Egypt for faster wonders, Celts for religion and for once you will get to build their UB, going culture)
You will notice I do not have France; simply because on deity they have absolutely nothing going for them unless you can get the wonders. Chateaux, unlike Moais, cannot be clumped and overall useless in general until flight. They are, however, very fast in getting CVs on immortal and below, or when their starting terrain is OP the theming bonuses add up to a monster capitol.
consentient
Domination!
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One word: Cannons
Oh, and you need to take out the student of Aristotle before he can take over all the CS that are on your warpath
Oh, and @F.A. = Since KB is a little out of his element, even if he's using an OP civ, I think you should resign yourself to not knowing how tricky the map will be for no bribes. If you have a difficult warmonger neighbour, I guess you'll have to fight defensive wars and hope the other AIs take them out.
I agree that DCL #5 and #6 are probably the obvious choices if you don't want to wait until the 22nd when KB's Brazil map goes live.
Oh, and you need to take out the student of Aristotle before he can take over all the CS that are on your warpath
Oh, and @F.A. = Since KB is a little out of his element, even if he's using an OP civ, I think you should resign yourself to not knowing how tricky the map will be for no bribes. If you have a difficult warmonger neighbour, I guess you'll have to fight defensive wars and hope the other AIs take them out.
I agree that DCL #5 and #6 are probably the obvious choices if you don't want to wait until the 22nd when KB's Brazil map goes live.
OK I've found maps which I think will be very easy for a peaceful CV attempt FA.
Try either of these (either start is quite OP IMO in any case), you will have plenty of room to expand and the terrain overall is great for making monster capitols.
Be warned, I have handpicked your opponents; but I promise you that if you are on your best behavior you will never see a single DoW all game. However, since you are NOT to conquer anyone (save for worker steal or to liberate at the very most); you will have to outbuild these AIs, so pay attention to infrastructure and tech and you should be good.
If not, WELL... some of the AIs chosen have a pretty high propensity for... ahem... wonderwhoring as much as I do. Best of luck.
In the first save, you might want to explore a little bit before settling. Part of getting an easy peaceful CV is how to choose the best spot for your capitol. (I will remind you that wanting marble in the 3rd ring no matter what has ruined so many games for some players)
In the 2nd one (diamonds), in case you don't like wandering, well, just settle in the obvious spot. It's pretty good already.
Try either of these (either start is quite OP IMO in any case), you will have plenty of room to expand and the terrain overall is great for making monster capitols.
Be warned, I have handpicked your opponents; but I promise you that if you are on your best behavior you will never see a single DoW all game. However, since you are NOT to conquer anyone (save for worker steal or to liberate at the very most); you will have to outbuild these AIs, so pay attention to infrastructure and tech and you should be good.
If not, WELL... some of the AIs chosen have a pretty high propensity for... ahem... wonderwhoring as much as I do. Best of luck.
In the first save, you might want to explore a little bit before settling. Part of getting an easy peaceful CV is how to choose the best spot for your capitol. (I will remind you that wanting marble in the 3rd ring no matter what has ruined so many games for some players)
In the 2nd one (diamonds), in case you don't like wandering, well, just settle in the obvious spot. It's pretty good already.
consentient
Domination!
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Thanks for the maps KB. I need practise at CV too. I will start a separate thread for mine and F.A.'s playthroughs, OK?
