Turn 81 DCL/IDS Series

hehe, Order playthru gave me 287. i have to go to work right now. i'll have more details as to why when i get home. most of them are just from knowing how to be more efficient generally as well as some boosts to bpt i couldnt get with freedom.
 
Here's a near perfect Incan game at t80.

Spoiler :

Great terrain, a mountain range to hide behind, DoF's with all 3 neighbors, 4 cities up, built Oracle and Petra, Dessert Folklore.

Halle's religion is giving Pagodas and Mosques and you'll have plenty of faith to enhance Shark Diving after those buildings. Treat Halle with caution as I did forward settle the Western expo on him, but he's extra friendly right now.

Good CS relationships.

NC will be late as 4th expo had to go up to grab the land.

Good luck….can't wait to see how others play this one out.




View attachment Pachacuti_0081 BC-0850.Civ5Save
 
the reason i got done 20 turns faster had nothing to with Order (although 25% helped).

Spoiler :
i signed way more RAs (9 or 10) and took the CS science bonus earlier. In the end I had all but 2 CSs as allies giving me over 200bpt, iirc. for OCC that policy seems crucial to finishing earlier with SV. I had it hovering at 750 for about 30 turns in the end.

the give and take of Freedom and Order are interesting. I still like Freedom better. Had I played a much heavier RA game with Freedom i think i would have finished earlier. Order was fun though. And in that game Japan, France, and a 3rd civ (forgot who) got eliminated. 3 of the 5 remaining went Order. It was DoF/RA the rest of the way and lux for lump sum all game. now that i think about it that probably contributed most to why i kept all those DoF/RAs. i got less population (40 instead of 42) but i had way better production from those 5 and 6 hammer hill mines. the production is pretty killer. i only needed one GE to rush the final piece. I used the previous 4 on Wonders.
 
Up to Turn 262 of SDs 81 Incan Save File

Spoiler :
I was going to finish this game out this morning but I am starting to get worn out and need some rest. Fun game but tough to get into the Capitals. It is a pretty close tech race though and I'm not sure if I am going to win. I kinda messed up by finishing out Tradition and now I am a few policies away from spaceflight pioneers.




Diplo Victory Turn 295

Spoiler :
I couldn't sleep so I finished it out. I was not going to win an SV so I went Diplo instead. I have been kinda having fun with Diplo this last week, so many ways to get the votes. I usually like to liberate a Civ but no Civ was Genocide this game. I used a lot of war and selling cities to be able to buy up the votes. Oh I did get Spaceflight Pioneers on the last turn before the vote. I only finished with 2 out of the original 4 cities that Shark Diver settled. The first one had to be sold to Korea since Ethiopia launched a counter attack and I couldn't defend. I took all of Ethiopia's cities for that insult except for the original Expo. The next Expo was taken on the last turn by Germany who I DOWed on the last turn to insure he did not steal my CS's. It will be interesting to see Sharks final landscape since I am sure it will look nothing like this one!


 
Turn 81 Celts / Full Piety Challenge

I was trying to limit this to DCL/IDS only but it makes sense to post other games that nobody has information of the map as well.

Spoiler :

I was messing about with the Celts and decided to try a Full Piety only game where you are not allowed into Tradition or Liberty. So complete Piety first and onto anything else but Tradition or Liberty.

Once again I did not scout out the map. It isn't the most fun type of map but I like Fractal and sometimes this is what happens. You are alone on this mass and able to expand at will. I am sure others would of had a stronger starting empire and breeze by the AI but I stretched myself out a bit thin at the start giving the AI a much needed boost. However, the AI is starting to tech like mad and I might have trouble winning this game.

The Religion is up... I chose +4fpt from NW, Tithe, Pagodas, Mosques, and Rel Texts.



I did get Oracle around turn 86... Hint in the Spoiler below

Spoiler :
On the 81 save my worker is building a mine in the capital but I moved him to the tress to chop to help get Oracle. Actually I used both workers to chop.


Up to turn 153

Spoiler :
Being able to buy Universities for 160 faith is pretty nice but I'm very far behind. I might try to snipe some of these capitals or all of them since they all seem to be coastal.



 

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on your t81 save, have you taken a Reformation belief yet or gotten to that policy?
 
Fluphen Azine said:
Up to Turn 262 of SDs 81 Incan Save File

Spoiler :
I was going to finish this game out this morning but I am starting to get worn out and need some rest. Fun game but tough to get into the Capitals. It is a pretty close tech race though and I'm not sure if I am going to win. I kinda messed up by finishing out Tradition and now I am a few policies away from spaceflight pioneers.




Diplo Victory Turn 295

Spoiler :
I couldn't sleep so I finished it out. I was not going to win an SV so I went Diplo instead. I have been kinda having fun with Diplo this last week, so many ways to get the votes. I usually like to liberate a CS but no Civ was Genocide this game. I used a lot of war and selling cities to be able to buy up the votes. Oh I did get Spaceflight Pioneers on the last turn before the vote. I only finished with 2 out of the original 4 cities that Shark Diver settled. The first one had to be sold to Korea since Ethiopia launched a counter attack and I couldn't defend. I took all of Ethiopia's cities for that insult except for the original Expo. The next Expo was taken on the last turn by Germany who I DOWed on the last turn to insure he did not steal my CS's. It will be interesting to see Sharks final landscape since I am sure it will look nothing like this one!


Click to expand...

Spoiler :

Thanks for playing this one, F.A. I really did love the start.

That said……I did all that good work founding 3.5 great cities and you sell them? Arghhhhh!!!!!

Actually, since I've never sold a city I founded (ego thing), I have no idea if that's smart or not.

I think I'm on record that I love the Incas, but I do have one question on your finish: Who was beating you in science? When I left off at t150ish, the Germans were still #1 and the Koreans were late to everything.


 
Hammer Rabbi said:
on your t81 save, have you taken a Reformation belief yet or gotten to that policy?
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Not yet, it is coming up soon. I ended up taking faith bought schools, SS was not available but I probably wouldn't of taken it. The only other choice I might of considered was the choice that allows you to buy any great people with faith after the industrial era but 160-240 faith for each Uni is pretty strong when you are at about 70fpt.


Im up to turn 185 and the first Civ got to Modern Era on something like turn 167 but I think I can win this from here but it is going to be a test for me. I also had to settle for 2nd Place in WF which is really going to hurt. Now up to turn 250 and my lazy approach might cost me the game. I think my only chance is Diplo but it is gonna be a miracle to get all the votes this game!
 
Shark Diver said:
Spoiler :

Thanks for playing this one, F.A. I really did love the start.

That said……I did all that good work founding 3.5 great cities and you sell them? Arghhhhh!!!!!

Actually, since I've never sold a city I founded (ego thing), I have no idea if that's smart or not.

I think I'm on record that I love the Incas, but I do have one question on your finish: Who was beating you in science? When I left off at t150ish, the Germans were still #1 and the Koreans were late to everything.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Well I didn't want to sell that city! I was forced to when Ethiopia launced a pretty good counter attack on that Expo on the coast. For my style I really didn't like that city anyway but I would of rather stuck with it but when it is going to be captured I think the better play is to sell it right? Why let the AI just capture it when you can sell it? The funny thing I like to do and most players will not because I guess it is cheap abuse but I still enjoy it. I put Korea at war with Ethiopia before I sell it and get open borders with Korea than I sell it and let Ethiopia take it and I take it back and sell it again and again sometimes!! I only sold the one, the other one was taken by Germany on the turn that I won the game but that was a war for blocking all CS's except for the one that had over 500 influence and I had no chance of getting allied status.

The whole reason I decided to war it up with Ethiopia from the start of about turn 85 is because I realized I was never going to get Shark Diving into other cities unless I crushed his Church. Of course since I needed faith for other Great People I was not able to buy the Prophets as much to spread it around and it never really caught. I did go with Holy Warriors which since you had good early faith generation it came in pretty handy with my long fought war with Ethiopia. They are a strong defensive Civ and it took some time to take his cities.

About selling cities... the last few games not this one but some others I have been building some settlers late in the game and plant them right by the AI I am at war with and sell them to another AI that is at war with my enemy. I recapture and sell again. Silly but fun for me and you can get a lot of gold as well.

About your question for the AI tech rate... This game was really awesome for the AI tech rate or at least I thought so. I think all AIs were very close in tech and we all had the lead at one point or the other. I have never seen that before which was refreshing. In the end China actually had the tech lead but we were all within a tech of each other for the most part. We... being... China, Germany, American Indians and myself. I paid Germany to kill England and Korea since Korea was in the lead for awhile and I did not want him to get far ahead so Germany solved that problem.


Of course I post two posts instead of just putting them together... I am pretty slow sometimes!
 
@ Fluphen Azine:

Spoiler :
I noticed that you got 2 nice buildings and I noticed that island all to yourself could house about 12-15 cities (not including any offscreen islands to settle). SS seemed like a nice alternative being so isolated. surprised it was taken when you only took Piety to start. bummer though. i might try this save to see more details on diplo situations. maybe SS can be gotten with different maneuvering. im also curious about Capital placement. if most or all are on the coast, frigates become a solid option too.

edit: i realize you started with a specific challenge of not using lib/trad. i do not think i'll adhere to the same but i like starting with just what youve done. if those caps are coastal i might adhere to it with honor until i can get exploration/commerce/rationalism. even if i dont go dom, taking some strong cities is still very good.

edit2: wow that sucks. right from t81 SS was already gone. only reformation taken. ill play this some to see where it goes, but man, i kind of hate your city placements. cardiff is one from the coast, would have been better imo (even if you dont get the 1f/2f from UA). i dont like where truro is either, only horses but you get 2fpt. im tempted to meet AI and sell those cities to them, then DoW -- for xp and to raze and replace in better spots. they wont have units over there in time to do squat about it, haha. and i could probably settle for peace with another city of mine, wait 10t and do it again. in all it would be 30+ turns for me to get that done though. id have to build a small army first. and tech to Optics to send these scouts out. i dunno, ill see how into it i am. neat map though.
 
@ Hammer Rabbi

Spoiler :
Since it is Fractal it is always a bit of a gamble if it is pangea or continents. I would of liked to have been on the coast but I settled in place not sure if I was close to the coast or not. I settled Dublin on the Marble to get the NW and not have to worry about happy. Since I didn't have a coastal cap I decided to just settle on the Gems since it was covered in Jungle and I do not have to worry about chopping it out.

This game is an easy win if you start with Tradition or Liberty from the get go. I was kinda practicing my Piety only game. Although it can be strong it will never compete with Tradition or Liberty but sometimes I need to have some variety and Piety doesn't get much love.

I don't see any need to fool around with this save. It is going to be very difficult for anyone to take over the start and be happy with it. That is kinda the point though to be in a tough spot and pull out the victory. Interestingly enough that I am teching faster than my usual games but since Korea is so far away and had no war trouble they are starting to runaway with the game. I ended up getting 7 cities and since my fpt was close to 100 per turn it was no trouble buying all the cheap science buildings.

I like being 10-15% behind most of the game and trying to overtake the AI in the final 10 or so turns. I can see your plan of selling and razing cities working to your advantage but it is a tough start from turn 81 for anyone really and most players will not like the position. After I opened up Satellites I like the map as well. A little tricky for going full piety first and it is not advisable compared to Trad or Liberty.

My biggest problem is the production in the capital. It is horrid and that goes for all the cities as well. Tough land for Production and building so many cities I ran into trouble getting workshops up to be able to try to build Iron Works. Anyway... it is what I was looking for. Something harder than the usual maps posted and with Piety first it made it even more difficult. I usually don't get over 100fpt on Deity so that is something at the least.

The other thing I do not like is being alone with no Civs close enough to steal from or war with. I guess I could of planned out an attack with Frigates but I waited for Battleships instead and it might be too late. I also made the mistake of having too much culture too early costing me two points into Patronage instead of being able to jump right into Rationalism which would of made a big difference. I'm about 3 % behind Korea on turn 250 but it is looking bleak.
 
@ Fluphen:
Spoiler :
I stopped at t87 to pick a reformation belief. it will totally define what strategy i take. i was actually thinking of taking the CS gold buff and teching for diplo. you could make a decent income based society there. full piety, 3 in patronage, 2-3 in commerce and/or Explo, full Rat and 6 in order.

the other choices beyond Jesuits are faith buying units if i want domination or faith buying GPs if im not totally sold on any VC. im gonna pick one and see what happens. Jesuits are pretty sweet though but ive taken them. these others ive never taken so i might out of curiosity.
 
Fluphen Azine said:
Spoiler :
Well I didn't want to sell that city! I was forced to when Ethiopia launced a pretty good counter attack on that Expo on the coast. For my style I really didn't like that city anyway but I would of rather stuck with it but when it is going to be captured I think the better play is to sell it right? Why let the AI just capture it when you can sell it? The funny thing I like to do and most players will not because I guess it is cheap abuse but I still enjoy it. I put Korea at war with Ethiopia before I sell it and get open borders with Korea than I sell it and let Ethiopia take it and I take it back and sell it again and again sometimes!! I only sold the one, the other one was taken by Germany on the turn that I won the game but that was a war for blocking all CS's except for the one that had over 500 influence and I had no chance of getting allied status.

The whole reason I decided to war it up with Ethiopia from the start of about turn 85 is because I realized I was never going to get Shark Diving into other cities unless I crushed his Church. Of course since I needed faith for other Great People I was not able to buy the Prophets as much to spread it around and it never really caught. I did go with Holy Warriors which since you had good early faith generation it came in pretty handy with my long fought war with Ethiopia. They are a strong defensive Civ and it took some time to take his cities.

About selling cities... the last few games not this one but some others I have been building some settlers late in the game and plant them right by the AI I am at war with and sell them to another AI that is at war with my enemy. I recapture and sell again. Silly but fun for me and you can get a lot of gold as well.

About your question for the AI tech rate... This game was really awesome for the AI tech rate or at least I thought so. I think all AIs were very close in tech and we all had the lead at one point or the other. I have never seen that before which was refreshing. In the end China actually had the tech lead but we were all within a tech of each other for the most part. We... being... China, Germany, American Indians and myself. I paid Germany to kill England and Korea since Korea was in the lead for awhile and I did not want him to get far ahead so Germany solved that problem.


Of course I post two posts instead of just putting them together... I am pretty slow sometimes!
Click to expand...

Ok, F.A., you've sold me. When I get time to play again, I'm going to start employing the city selling tactic/exploit.

Regarding my game:

Spoiler :

I got my most dominating WF victory ever. Stopped chopping on t2 as I was so far ahead.

2nd Ideology…went Freedom. With 4 GS already banked, and science being very close across the board, I burnt 2 to get to SoL ASAP. I had wasted a GE on Eiffel (not exactly a waste) but wasn't going to have enough faith to get another GE in time to guarantee SoL……really shouldn't take Freedom without SoL likelihood, even though I hate burning early GS. With Korea in game (they love Freedom in my experience), I was not taking a chance.

I'm a cultural beast at this point and will be able to finish Tradition, important parts of Rationalism, 5 deep in Freedom, go back to Rationalism, and then have some fun with extra policies.

Foreign Legions just showed up. I'm wondering if I should put them up against their perfect counterpart, the Mefai Safari? Germany sure wants me to do so, but I don't trust him at all this game.

I'll finish up over the weekend……I'm predicting a t275 SV if I don't go Dom. However, CV and Diplo are on the table. I freakin love Inca.



 
Shark Diver said:
Ok, F.A., you've sold me. When I get time to play again, I'm going to start employing the city selling tactic/exploit.
Click to expand...

It's not really an exploit IMO (and talking about exploits, bribing by itself I already consider an exploit :lol: ); midgame-ish you can only get so much gold before your "pigeon" runs out of gpt to give you. The pigeon must also have borders close to that city for them to value it.

Obviously works best late game where AIs are making 200-300 gpt at least, probably more, but on deity late wars against AIs are quite costly (CS allies may get captured, you might get nuked etc. etc.)
 
kb27787 said:
It's not really an exploit IMO (and talking about exploits, bribing by itself I already consider an exploit :lol: ); midgame-ish you can only get so much gold before your "pigeon" runs out of gpt to give you. The pigeon must also have borders close to that city for them to value it.

Obviously works best late game where AIs are making 200-300 gpt at least, probably more, but on deity late wars against AIs are quite costly (CS allies may get captured, you might get nuked etc. etc.)
Click to expand...

Well I didn't exactly condone it as an "exploit"……but your point is valid. The Babylon OCC game irritated me as the AI irrationality just was off the charts, so I am far more forgiving than usual on any strategy that keeps them at bay.

The only reason I called it a "strategy/exploit" is that the AI values a city with full HP and no invading army on its doorsteps the exact same as it does the same city with 0 HP and zero chance of lasting the next half-turn. Ummmmmmm, paying full price for a city about to fall isn't very smart…..so, yes, it's an exploit…..but a useful one.

That's like valuing your shiny new Mercedes at the same price as your shiny new ex-Mercedes that just got hit by a truck. Their resale value probably shouldn't be the same, yes?
 
@Shark
The original idea of this tag-team thing was then to turn back the original save after another 80 turns to its owner--surprise!

Played your empire for another 80 turns so here it is @ t161 (I sold your useless ice city which was delaying NC btw)
Liberty kinda sucks... (because of aqueduct bug which I'm not sure is fixed yet, I ended up finishing tradition, not daring to hard-build aqueducts, which probably cost me a lot of growth)
Shark diving has feed the world (however +15% would've been worth more than +2 food if you had picked Swords to Plowshares) nonetheless Ethiopia's religion is very nice in which case I would've liked you to pick Messiah and not spread your religion, keeping it in your capitol; well in either case your faith income is huge enough.

Nonetheless... I present to you your empire (Got Sistine at least... it hurts though reaching architecture with no wonders to build cuz no aesthetics and no rat; hurrying up to finish tradition)


I'm not used to liberty so I'm not sure how people deal with the situation...

Now turn it over to me @t241 if you will (or other people like Fluph or anyone actually can also try it if they want, and let's see what you did to your empire...
 

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I like this idea of passing it back and forth like alt shot golf. It will make it more interesting and fun. Just playing the game out from turn 81 is not as challenging as this idea.

Edit: I played about ten turns of the 161 Turn Inca File. It is such a perfect set up... my workers hardly had anything to do! I ended up not changing the food focus to production focus and lost the WF by about 50 hammers. The world is so peaceful it made me a little sick to my stomach. I had to start up some wars and I plan to press into someone soon since it doesn't take long to build an army.
 
kb27787 said:
@Shark
The original idea of this tag-team thing was then to turn back the original save after another 80 turns to its owner--surprise!

Played your empire for another 80 turns so here it is @ t161 (I sold your useless ice city which was delaying NC btw)
Liberty kinda sucks... (because of aqueduct bug which I'm not sure is fixed yet, I ended up finishing tradition, not daring to hard-build aqueducts, which probably cost me a lot of growth)
Shark diving has feed the world (however +15% would've been worth more than +2 food if you had picked Swords to Plowshares) nonetheless Ethiopia's religion is very nice in which case I would've liked you to pick Messiah and not spread your religion, keeping it in your capitol; well in either case your faith income is huge enough.

Nonetheless... I present to you your empire (Got Sistine at least... it hurts though reaching architecture with no wonders to build cuz no aesthetics and no rat; hurrying up to finish tradition)


I'm not used to liberty so I'm not sure how people deal with the situation...

Now turn it over to me @t241 if you will (or other people like Fluph or anyone actually can also try it if they want, and let's see what you did to your empire...
Click to expand...

Now this is gonna be fun. I'll definitely play your rendition as soon as possible.

I did note the delay in NC, but library purchase wasn't too far away at t80 save IIRC?

I'm thinking if we do this pass-the-baton thing more often, it would help if the write-up includes as much diplo history as possible. That would help avoid unpleasant surprises. Again, I apologize for my inability to play over the next several days.
 
kb27787 has the perfect set up on turn 161 where almost any player could take over and most likely pull out a win. I went back and found my turn 161 of Shark Divers turn 81 Save of the Inca game. I think it would be difficult for some players to take over in this position. You can see it is a completely different game. I ended up going to war for most of the game until I ended it with a Diplomatic Victory. Oddly enough we are both building the WF at the same turn time but I suggest not trying to win the WF.

Spoiler :
MY advice is to take down 3 cities of Ethiopia. Perhaps sell one to Hawaii for gold. Wait for DOF to expire with Hawaii, perhaps denounce him but for sure DOW Hawaii and take cities and Capital and perhaps sell them for over 300gpt.
 

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