City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

Thanerion,

I think you'll be happy with how I've handled ideology and warmonger penalties in v23. Ideologies will be much stronger, and warmonger penalties easier to reduce with the 'right people' (i.e. natural friends). I'm not sure how well the AI could use a 'reset-to-zero' policy, and I know the AI would freak out if any of its yields were zeroed out for too long. We might eventually go that way, but right now I'm more interested in redirecting the current AI into more efficient and competitive channels.

GemAye,
I haven't used Hulfgar's mod, so I can't guarantee compatibility. CSD uses a .dll, so make sure that whatever other mods you have do not include a .dll or there will be big problems. Also, make sure you've cleared your cache - that can clear up some issues as well. I've found a few bugs that I'm addressing in v23 that may or may not be the same ones you are running into.

I'm currently deep in the 'testing' phase of v23. Yeah, I know, I just released v22, but there were some nascent bugs popping up that need crushing, and I wanted to finish up the resolution balance sweep that I started in v22.

Here's what is coming up:

Bugs:
  • Save-game oddities with lua values in the World Congress resolved.
  • UNITAI_DIPLOMAT escort crash resolved.
  • MUFORMATION crash resolved.
  • Incorrect values for some resolutions resolved.

Gameplay Changes
  • 'Votes per x' bonus from Ideology National Wonders bumped to two votes per x (from one), where x is RA, DoF or Conquest.
  • Warmonger penalties nerfed slightly (250->200), and rate of normal decay increased.
Resolution Changes
  • Cultural Heritage Sites Resolution now grants +3 culture per world wonder, and +1 culture per great work (this should give a little boost to National Wonders like the Hermitage).
  • Increase Army Maintenance Resolution now called Global Peace Accords, acts as opposite to Just War. Increased unit maintenance fees still there, but now warmonger penalties are doubled, and warmonger decay is halved.
  • Historical Landmarks changed to instead grant +2 to Gold, Food, and Production for great person tile improvements. +2 Culture, Science and Faith for archaeology landmarks.
  • International Games changed. Tier 1 grants 1 policy and +100% Tourism for 20 turns. Tier 2 grants a free Great Person. Tier 3 grants a new wonder, the Olympic Village, which combines the buffs of a Hotel and Stadium, along with +5 culture.
  • Just War resolution added - Warmonger penalties halved, and warmonger decay doubled while active.
  • Natural Heritage Sites changed to grant +3 to all Yields for Natural Wonders (instead of +5 culture).
  • Embargo Civilization/City-State now 'Sanction City-State/Civilization; in addition to embargo, warmonger penalties when capturing cities of sanctioned civs are halved.
  • Scholars in Residence buffed to grant +2% more science for every CS ally (when researching already-research techs).
  • World Ideology grants 1 additional vote for every other follower of the ideology to all followers.
  • World Religion grants 1 additional vote for every other follower of the religion to the founder of the religion.
  • World's Fair tiers re-done: Tier 1, 500 points towards golden age. Tier 2, Free Social Policy, +30 influence one-time boost with CS. Tier 3, free factory, +100% culture for 20 turns.
AI Changes

The AI now has a dynamic system for warmonger penalties based on your commonalities or differences. Here's how it works:

  • If you conquer a city, the AI considers your religion, your current relationship, your ideology, as well as the aforementioned resolutions before setting a warmonger penalty.
  • If you share a religion/ideology, or are friends/allies, the penalty is reduced greatly.
  • If, however, you've attacked a player with the same religion/ideology as you and the other AI, the reduction is much smaller (sometimes nonexistent).
  • If you and the AI have different ideologies/religions, or you are enemies, the warmonger penalty is greater.
  • The rate of decay is directly affected by the World Congress. Use the new resolutions to control your warmonger rate, or to punish other players for being warmongers.
I've been busy!
G
 
I am eagerly looking forward to use this new version.

Question about the International Games.

International Games changed. Tier 1 grants 1 policy and +100% Tourism for 20 turns. Tier 2 grants a free Great Person. Tier 3 grants a new wonder, the Olympic Village, which combines the buffs of a Hotel and Stadium, along with +5 culture.

Is the 3rd tier reward not too much? Considering a wonder that grants :c5culture: and has the tourism buffs of a Hotel is going to provide an "ongoing" benefit, much longer than the 20 turns at 100% Tourism for 1st tier. Then there's the whole thing of getting the Village for not actually holding the games! Or perhaps if you changed the name to just "Games Village" then my mind might view it as some sort of shared event, like a World Cup for cricket or football.:mischief::D
 
I am eagerly looking forward to use this new version.

Question about the International Games.



Is the 3rd tier reward not too much? Considering a wonder that grants :c5culture: and has the tourism buffs of a Hotel is going to provide an "ongoing" benefit, much longer than the 20 turns at 100% Tourism for 1st tier. Then there's the whole thing of getting the Village for not actually holding the games! Or perhaps if you changed the name to just "Games Village" then my mind might view it as some sort of shared event, like a World Cup for cricket or football.:mischief::D

Sorry, Tier 3 = Gold level (i.e. the highest tier) in the XML, thus I used it that way, so only one civ will get it. It is quite strong – I may end up toning it down a bit, however I would argue that it is no more or less powerful than the International Space Station wonder or Hubble Telescope. We shall see! The Bismarck AI used it to good effect in a current test-game to win a culture victory in 1960 (and this without having to conquer half the known world).

I should probably explain my rationale for the resolution changes and additions I've made. I wanted to do a balance pass for all the resolutions to make sure they were all multi-purpose, and, more importantly, worth the time it takes to propose/vote on them. Many of the resolutions gave paltry reward, and were largely suited to 'defensive' play (i.e. the bonus to Culture resolutions for natural wonders, etc.). As such, diplomatic players were more reactive than proactive, which is dull. With these policies, players in control, or with voting power, can reshape the WC to make certain playstyles very uncompetitive.

For example, if a player combined Arts Funding with Scholars in Residence and the AAC, that'd be a massive penalty to the Science Victory, and a big boost to Diplomatic and Cultural victories. If a player is able to win the Treasure Fleet/Wargames projects and enact the 'Just War' resolution, they'll have a major military advantage in addition to much lower warmonger penalties, thus making it easier to keep trade partners and DoFs while crushing weaker, unloved civs. With these changes, Science and Cultural players, easily the most insular playstyles, cannot afford to sit back and let others run the WC.

Regarding the projects, I wanted to have at least one project that benefitted each of the different themes/victories of the game. In vanilla BNW, the projects are largely focused on culture. Now, we've got the following:

Treasure Fleet: Trade
World's Fair: Production
International Games: Culture
Global Wargames: Military
ISS: Science

The only 'theme' lacking a project is faith, however Faith already has its own project mechanic with faith-spreading (plus the idea of a cooperative religion project seems odd).

I hope I'm making sense! If you see anything else that looks wonky or like a terrible idea, let me know. As always, my goals are balance and AI-usability.
G
 
World Religion grants 1 additional vote for every other follower of the religion to the founder of the religion.

What about the situation I find myself in a lot where you don't actually found the religion but after obliterating that civ from existence you now have that religion's founding city and all the cities of the empire/world are now following that religion.

Where does that vote go? Nowhere, the holder of the Holy City, the proponent of the resolution?
 
Resolution Changes
  • Cultural Heritage Sites Resolution now grants +3 culture per world wonder, and +1 culture per great work (this should give a little boost to National Wonders like the Hermitage).
  • Increase Army Maintenance Resolution now called Global Peace Accords, acts as opposite to Just War. Increased unit maintenance fees still there, but now warmonger penalties are doubled, and warmonger decay is halved.
  • Historical Landmarks changed to instead grant +2 to Gold, Food, and Production for great person tile improvements. +2 Culture, Science and Faith for archaeology landmarks.
  • International Games changed. Tier 1 grants 1 policy and +100% Tourism for 20 turns. Tier 2 grants a free Great Person. Tier 3 grants a new wonder, the Olympic Village, which combines the buffs of a Hotel and Stadium, along with +5 culture.
  • Just War resolution added - Warmonger penalties halved, and warmonger decay doubled while active.
  • Natural Heritage Sites changed to grant +3 to all Yields for Natural Wonders (instead of +5 culture).
  • Embargo Civilization/City-State now 'Sanction City-State/Civilization; in addition to embargo, warmonger penalties when capturing cities of sanctioned civs are halved.
  • Scholars in Residence buffed to grant +2% more science for every CS ally (when researching already-research techs).
  • World Ideology grants 1 additional vote for every other follower of the ideology to all followers.
  • World Religion grants 1 additional vote for every other follower of the religion to the founder of the religion.
  • World's Fair tiers re-done: Tier 1, 500 points towards golden age. Tier 2, Free Social Policy, +30 influence one-time boost with CS. Tier 3, free factory, +100% culture for 20 turns.

Point by point:
  • Cultural Heritage Sites Resolution can be fun, but needs testing in the long run, when doing a single-city "cultural pump",
  • Global Peace Accords sounds great,
  • Historical Landmarks can be greatly unbalanced for single-city "cultural pumps", but I will need to check it out,
  • International Games seem cool, finally,
  • Just War resolution is nice, but could also decrease unit maintenance a bit (to truly be the opposite of Global Peace Accords) - if we want war - let there be war,
  • Natural Heritage Sites - one thing, will Spain multiply these? Even without it, it can be too much,
  • Sanctions is something I look forward to seeing,
  • Scholars in Residence buff might be fun, but I would also include a cost-increase to techs noone has yet - even a small one. Overall, it is my opinion that techs are about 10-15% too cheap - I get the reason in ancient / classic (AI starts with free techs), but later? Techs should seriously be more expensive than they are - the game pace is too quick with even basic min-maxing of science, and science civs can get ahead so much that they'll be an era or even two eras above everyone else,
  • World Ideology - I assume you checked it and it will not lead to crazy ammounts of votes,
  • World Religion is ok,
  • World's Fair free-factory is something I totaly don't get, is there a reason for it? :p

The dynamic system seems awesome ;-)
 
Main account is in purgatory (I had the nerve to try to change my email – how dare me!), so this is my failsafe, creatively-named account.

ExpiredReign,

I hadn't considered that – the game reserves the 'founding' status for the conquered civ, even if completely dead. There's not much I can do about that (I mean, there is, but it'd be some work), so I'll have to enter a variable function to look for conquest. Any other variables I should look at?

Thanerion,

I'll respond, also point by point.

  • Cultural Heritage Sites Resolution - world wonder culture was reduced by 1 here, so great works should offset that and give a bonus to a tourism-focused civ. I think I'm going to ditch the +1 for great works and making it a different yield entirely– science or gold, most likely. Science makes sense, flavor-wise, as heritage = study = academics.
  • Global Peace Accords - agreed!
  • Historical Landmarks - yeah, I may reduce to just +1 per. The value is in CSD'd SQL, so it'll be easy to modify for testing purposes.
  • International Games - yeah! As I told ExpiredReign, the Olympic Village may be a little too strong, but we'll see. Again, this is just an XML change, so that's easy to manage.
  • Just War resolution – I agree, I'll add that in to make it as strong as the peace accords
  • Natural Heritage Sites - not sure about Spain. Will test. Typically, though, civs get 1, maybe 2 natural wonders in a game, so I don't think it is a huge change. I may reduce to +1, though.
  • Sanctions - they work well, though I need to teach the AI to use them offensively
  • Scholars in Residence - the resolution is designed solely to help civs catch up to advanced ones. I may increase the % boost to 5% (most civs keep ~2 allies per game), which I think will work well. I'm not too keen on increasing science costs, as that's really hard to balance (and would throw CSD out of whack with mods like CEP that also change science costs).
  • World Ideology - I mean, if 7 civs are Order, there'll be +6 votes for the ideology. If a typical standard game includes 8 civs, that seems like a large amount of votes, but it is also reflective of the extreme power of the Order ideology in that scenario. Give the diplomatic player a key leg-up in the end-game, and incentivizes that the player focus on more than just city-state alliances.
  • World Religion - yep; I need to check ExpiredReign's variable, though.
  • World's Fair - Yeah! Historically, World's Fairs were all about industry and science. In 1851, for example, Britain hosted the Great Exhibition in London, which heavily emphasized the power of industry. In 1889 France hosted their own world's fair which, in addition to unveiling the Eiffel Tower, also had halls of industry. That said, I've strongly considered making the Eiffel Tower the Wonder reward for the World's Fair (as it was, as noted above, the most famous construction for a world's fair). Thoughts?
G(2) :)
 
In the case of Natural Wonders - do note that they are quite extreme - on one hand you have the awesome ones (Solomon's Mines, Lake Victoria, Cerro de Potosi), the good ones (food/faith givers) and complete crap (Crater, Old Faithful). It's hard to balance them against each other - complete crap in the hands of Spain becomes good, good becomes awesome, and awesome breaks the game (+12 food or production tile anyone? :p). Add something to crap, it becomes nice, add something to good, they become awesome, etc.

In my opinion, if you should modify it, Natural Wonders should give additional +2 happiness, +2 or +4 tourism, +2/4 culture, so that the bonus is consistent and not unbalancing in either direction.

In case of World's Faire - Eiffel Tower would be much better than a generic factory :p Generic factory is generic and not really that great (especially that the algorithm places it in the capital, as you mentioned, where even weaker civs have it). Maybe a factory enhancement, production bonus, yes, something along these lines, but a factory seems like a slap in the face :p
 
In the case of Natural Wonders - do note that they are quite extreme - on one hand you have the awesome ones (Solomon's Mines, Lake Victoria, Cerro de Potosi), the good ones (food/faith givers) and complete crap (Crater, Old Faithful). It's hard to balance them against each other - complete crap in the hands of Spain becomes good, good becomes awesome, and awesome breaks the game (+12 food or production tile anyone? :p). Add something to crap, it becomes nice, add something to good, they become awesome, etc.

In my opinion, if you should modify it, Natural Wonders should give additional +2 happiness, +2 or +4 tourism, +2/4 culture, so that the bonus is consistent and not unbalancing in either direction.

In case of World's Faire - Eiffel Tower would be much better than a generic factory :p Generic factory is generic and not really that great (especially that the algorithm places it in the capital, as you mentioned, where even weaker civs have it). Maybe a factory enhancement, production bonus, yes, something along these lines, but a factory seems like a slap in the face :p

Unfortunately Tourism/Happiness are not technically yields, so those two can't be added to that resolution. I think a flat +1 to all yields will improve the quality of weaker natural wonders, while also preventing extreme power on the other end. I don't want to nerf the resolution too much, as the incentive should be that it is a good resolution. Furthermore, if one player benefits more than the others, there will be fights to repeal it.

I think I'm going to go with the Eiffel Tower. It was my initial choice, but I faltered, as I was wary about editing an existing wonder. I think it is worth it, however.
 
In case of World's Faire - Eiffel Tower would be much better than a generic factory.
The Eiffel Tower would be very fitting and it's an interesting way of getting. I like the idea. As alternative, I'd suggest making the Crystal Palace into the World's Fair wonder. It's fairly well-known, represents the very first World's Fair there was and you can pick your own bonuses to go with it - like giving it something like +2 :tourism:, +2 :c5production: and +2 :c5science: to represent the science and industry part of it.
 
The Eiffel Tower would be very fitting and it's an interesting way of getting. I like the idea. As alternative, I'd suggest making the Crystal Palace into the World's Fair wonder. It's fairly well-known, represents the very first World's Fair there was and you can pick your own bonuses to go with it - like giving it something like +2 :tourism:, +2 :c5production: and +2 :c5science: to represent the science and industry part of it.

I like that idea. I'm going to see how Eiffel Tower works at first, but it if isn't up to snuff we'll move to something custom. The Eiffel Tower will be interesting, in that it gets its +12 Tourism at Radio, so it may be a project wonder that has a later payoff (if you complete the project before Radio).
G
 
I like that idea. I'm going to see how Eiffel Tower works at first, but it if isn't up to snuff we'll move to something custom. The Eiffel Tower will be interesting, in that it gets its +12 Tourism at Radio, so it may be a project wonder that has a later payoff (if you complete the project before Radio).
G
If you end up using the Crystal Palace idea, I made a quick mock up of a possible wonder splash and button (just from Google Image Search + some quick editing, I think the button graphic would need some more work, though, it feels unbalanced).
 

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Beautiful art! Makes it 100% easier for me to implement (I'm by no means a skilled gimp-ist). I think I will eventually add the Crystal Palace, as the Eiffel Tower is somewhat lackluster as a league reward (and it could come a bit too early as well).

Any interest in doing any other art for CSD? :D
 
Any interest in doing any other art for CSD? :D
In principle, yes, but it might take a bit of time - bit busy in real life (that was high-level procrastination ;) ) and need to brush up on Civ5 modding. I was doing textures and models for Civ4 and haven't really modded Civ5 yet, need to get a handle on it and on testing it in-game. :)
 
In principle, yes, but it might take a bit of time - bit busy in real life (that was high-level procrastination ;) ) and need to brush up on Civ5 modding. I was doing textures and models for Civ4 and haven't really modded Civ5 yet, need to get a handle on it and on testing it in-game. :)

No worries - the art I have I've made is okay, so it would definitely be a 'do what you feel like doing when you want to do it' scenario. :) I'm just impressed with the quality of your 'rough sketch' versus what I've spent hours laboring over!

G
 
I spent a bit of time of finishing up the Crystal Palace splash and button. Both are PNGs, so it should be easy enough to get them into the game if/when you need them.

The splash now features more "rough" brushwork on the splash, since Firaxis seems to have that "concept art" stylisation to it and adjusted the colours to match the button.

The button - I just repositioned stuff a bit and adjusted the starburst, it should feel more "balanced" now and should look nicely distinct, even if smaller.

Anything in particular you feel that needs art (or a revamp)? Bear in mind it's all just photoshopping to match the art style... and buttons and splashes are the things I'm vaguely confident making at the moment.

EDIT: Removed images, higher quality imgur album a few posts below...
 
Those look great- I'm currently sketching out what I want the Crystal Palace to do. Since World's Fairs were varied in content, I'd like for the wonder to dabble in a little bit of everything. Here's my concept:

- +4 Science and Production to all Factories (to represent the industrial and inventive elements of the fair)

- + 1 Culture and 1 artifact slot (to represent the cultural and imperial elements of the fair)

This should scale nicely, and will fill in the lack of production/science focused wonders in the Industrial era.

I've got a placeholder for the Olympic Village icon that is...okay. The splash I'm using for it is this, but 'oilified' (a la Firaxis):

Olympic Village

If you feel compelled to make an icon for that, I'd be extremely grateful!
G
 
+4 production and science might be a bit too much. Remember about stat bloat and percentage bonuses.
 
Yep. +4 was quickly discarded once I started doing the math. I'm thinking +2 each. A little weaker, but fitting for a project wonder. I'm also going to reduce the Olympic Village bonus to 25%. 50% was hilariously strong.

Bugs are all ironed out. Just waiting on balance. I also have a few surprises in store. ;)
G
 
@ Gazebo
Looks like your evil twin has been banished again!
Put any weird balance issues down to his doing.:mischief:
 
@ Gazebo
Looks like your evil twin has been banished again!
Put any weird balance issues down to his doing.:mischief:

Ha! Hopefully it won't happen again.

Okay, so the special secret? I've added in one more feature for v23: failing to complete most global minor civ quests before they expire or are revoked will now result in an influence penalty for you that is equal to half the potential reward from the quest. This means that global quests (like barbarian hunting or archaeological digs) actually have a competitive edge to them, and failure could result in a much larger shift in influence than just a bump for the victor. I've actually seen the AI dip into negative influence because of this (something which never happens in the base game unless you bully, trespass or war with CSs). This doesn't apply to the contests, or to quests that have a set expiration date.

I've also updated the penalty for bullying and revoking protection to set your influence to -60. Doesn't matter what your influence is at beforehand, if you revoke your protection or bully, your influence will drop to -60 immediately.

v23 is ready for testing. I'm pasting a link to it below. Everything works, no apparent bugs (that I can tell).

In addition to the changes listed a few posts back, v23 will include:

Changes:

  • Penalties for failing global minor civ quests
  • CS influence set to -60 from bully or revocation of protection
  • Ideology national wonders moved to earlier spots in tech tree, cost reduced to 750.
  • Cultural Heritage Sites Resolution now grants +2 culture per world wonder, and +1 science per great work
  • Olympic Village combines half the buffs (25%) of a Hotel and Airport
  • Just War resolution includes reduction to land maintenance costs
  • Natural Heritage Sites changed to grant +2 to all Yields for Natural Wonders
  • Scholars in Residence buffed to grant +4% more science for every CS ally (when researching already-research techs).
  • Crystal Palace now gold-level reward for World's Fair: grants +2 Production/Science in every factory, 1 Great Work slot and 1 culture
  • World Religion founder vote bonus transferred to conqueror if holy city is taken

Enjoy! Feedback is appreciated, as always.
G

CSD v23 (beta)

Edit: Just realized I posted this with the evil twin account - ha! Oh well.
 
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