Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods

ok the other htread is getting a little full and now even im a bit lost so here we go again...

bsic overview of what we discussed so far (compiled by PCHighway)

The Preceding thread can be found here:
LotR Modders UNITE!!!

We started working on this MOD as a ‘gathering’ of Modders, who had an acute interest in Lord of the Rings. This is a continuation of a six page thread, seen at the URL above. We made some significant progress in actually working together to make a collaboration of ideas, to please everyone.

What is going to be in the MOD? When will it span? What are the Civs?
Well, we decided that the Mod should start slightly before the coming of man. This way it won’t be strange to have all civs in existence, and yet it still has the remarkable, mythological ‘old middle-earth’ in tact. We haven’t been able to agree on Civs at this point, we have all the important ones, but have some minor squabbles, such as: is Arnor, Gondor, and* Numenorë really necessary? Should Umbar and the Southrons be one civ?* We aren’t sure, but would love your input.

We decided to break the game up into ‘culture groups’ that now go beyond city graphic and terms of likeness, it goes into unit lines. Each culture group will have it’s own line, and each civs it’s own UU (s) for the cultures standard line. We have the Men, ‘Evil’(Mordor\Isengard), and Elves finished, they are lower in the post.

The idea we have so far, if to make Elven units better, let them only get slightly better, in the last age, and go up in Shield Cost Substantially, after all, they weren’t weaker then men, just fewer.

For Mordor, the idea was to make their Offensive line weaker, half or a third as cheap as the Mens. And going further, they get stronger behemoth units, that cost much more than the Mens'.* Giving them something to look forward to.

Men, they act sort of like a standard. Everything is weaker, or more powerful compared to their units, they are the default.

Bombard- We gave all the archer units a Bombard ability, they will not be able to attack the ground, but when a group of 3 archers are attacked, the first 2 archers will fire at the attacker (depending on the Bombard Strength) they should wound the offender accordingly. We haven’t decided on Lethal Bombardment yet.

Hit point table.
Conscript 3 HP
Regular 4 HP
Veteran 6 HP
Elite 7 HP

Stat Key.
Attack\Defense\Movement
Bombard Range=BR
Bombard Strength(attack)= BA
Bombard rate of Fire= ROF
HPB = Hit Point Bonus, will the unit get more Hit points than Default, or less.

Men
Defender Line-
1a. European Spearmen (utahjazz7) Name: Edain militia -
1\3\1 +1HPB
1b.Germanic Spearmen (Kinboat) Name: Spearman -
2\4\1 +1HPB
1c. Halberdier- (JimmyH) Name: Pikeman (?) -
3\5\1 +2HPB
1d. Pikemen (Civ3)? Name: Armored Pikemen -
3\6\1 +2HPB

Offensive Line-
2a.Tribal Warrior (Yaniv) -
2\1\1 0HPB
2b. Swordsman (Civ3) Beserker -
4\3\1 0HPB
2c. European Swordsman (utahjazz7) Name: Swordsman -
5\4\1 0HPB
2d. Scottish Warrior (Kindred) Name: Long Swordsman -
7\5\1 0HPB

Missle Line-
3a. Skirmisher (JH) Name: Skirmisher(?) -
2\2\1 -1HPB . BR0 . BA2 . ROF2
3b. Bab. Bowman (Civ3). Name: Bowman -
3\3\1 -1HPB . BR0 . BA4 . ROF2
3c. Robin Hood (Kinboat) Name: Archer -
4\4\1 -1HPB . BR0 .BA5 .ROF2
3d.Longbowman (Civ3) Name: Longbowman -
5\5\1 0HPB . BR0 .BA6 .ROF3

Cavalry Line-
1a-b. Horseman (civ3) Name: Horseman-
2\2\2 0HPB *blitz
1c.Cavalry (Jimmyh)?? Name: Cavalry -
3\2\2 0HPB *blitz
1d. Knight? (Civ3?) Name: Knight -
5\4\2 +2HPB *blitz

Mordor
Units will be cheaper, the Shield Cost won’t be determined until all unit lines are finished.

Defensive Infantry line-
1a-b.Goblin Spearman1 (embryodead) Name: Goblin Spearman-
1\3\1 0HPB .BR0 .BA1 .ROF1
1c.Goblin Spearman2 (Kindred) Name: Orc Spearman -
2\4\1 +1HPB .BR0 .BA2 .ROF1
1d. Cave Troll (Kindred) Name: Cave Troll -
4\6\1 +3HPB .BR0 . BA0 . ROF0

Offensive Line-
2a. Orc Warrior color conversion (embryodead) Name: Orc Warrior-
2\1\1 0HPB
2b. Orc Warrior (embryodead) Name: Orc Swordsman-
3\2\1 0HPB
2c. Black Orc (embryodead) Name: Orc Axeman-
5\3\1 0HPB
2d. Uruk Hai Berserker (Kinboat) Name: Uruk Hai-
6\4\1 0HPB . BR0 . BA4 . ROF1

Archer line-
3a. Black Orc Archer (embryodead) Name: Goblin Bowman-
2\2\1 -1HPB . BR0 . BA2 . ROF2
3b. Orc Archer [color] (embryodead) Name: Orc Bowman-
3\2\1 -1HPB . BR0 . BA4 . ROF2
3c-d. Goblin Archer (embryodead) Name: Orc Archer-
5\3\1 - 0HPB . BR0 . BA6 . ROF3

Cavalry Line-
4a-b. Wolf Rider (embryodead) Name: Wolf rider-
2\2\2 0HPB *blitz
4c-d. Warg Rider (embryodead) Name: Warg rider-
4\3\2 +1HPB *blitz

Elves
Elven Defensive Line-
1a-b. Phalangite(kryten)or Elven Spearman(embryodead)Name:Elven Infantry-
2\4\1 +2HPB
1c-d. Elven Spearman(Kinboat) Name: High Elven Infantry-
4\5\1 +2HPB

Offensive Infantry Line-
2a-c. European Swordsman?(embryodead)(Name:Elven Soldier-
4\3\1 +1HPB
2c-d. Elven Swordsman(Kinboat) Name: Elven Longblade-
6/4/1 0HPB

Archer Line-
3a-c.(Japanese Unit Pack)Name: Elven Archer-
3\3\1 0HPB . BR0 . BA5 . ROF3
3c-d. Elven Longbowman (Kinboat)-
5\5\1 0HPB . BR0 .BA7 .ROF3

Cavalry Line-
5a-b.Horse archer(Kryten)Name: Elven Rider-
4\3\2 0HPB BR0 . BA5 . ROF3 *blitz
5c-d.(Japanese Unit Pack)Name: Elven Cavalry
4\4\2 +1HPB . BR0 .BA6 .ROF3 *blitz

I only have two small suggestions about the unit lines.

1. for men, dont you think that the european spearman(utah) looks more advanced than germanic spearman by Kinboat? I say switch the graphics

2. You are using the Uruk-Hai Berserker, but why arent you using the Uruk-Hai Warrior(or is it Uruk-Hai Swordsman?)

I dont understand why goblins become obselute early in the game.

i agree with yoda, you should use the UHai Warrior.

Please, don't forget the Balrog!!

the balrog cant be realisticly implemented as a unit unfortunately...

but it may be present in a scenario...

and here's a preview of the "desert" that i am making...

Originally posted by Celeborn
and here's a preview of the "desert" that i am making...

Click to expand...

wow thats really cool, its mordor lands right?

yup...

What about the 4. era? Is it reserved for time after the war for ring, or what? In the last thread you were saying that it would be futuristic, but nothing that Tolkien hasn't described. I agree that we shouldn't add anything that isn't in the book, but all units are variations of a few (orc with spear, orc with sword...). You know that Sauron has made some new, better units, like olog-hai, so we could make some new, mixed units. I'm trying to make half orc, half trol.

Sorry about grammar

the "Dominion of Man" will be the replacment for future tech...

Originally posted by Yoda Power
I only have two small suggestions about the unit lines.

1. for men, dont you think that the european spearman(utah) looks more advanced than germanic spearman by Kinboat? I say switch the graphics

2. You are using the Uruk-Hai Berserker, but why arent you using the Uruk-Hai Warrior(or is it Uruk-Hai Swordsman?)

I dont understand why goblins become obselute early in the game.

Click to expand...

1 I think the Germanic looks meaner and heavier, so that's why. PCHighway thought like you before, so maybe you can switch him again (the bl**dy weather wane )
2 The Uruk Hai Warrior will be in! Either as a Orthanc UU or as some kick-donkey unit, maybe 5/5/1 all as road?

I don't really understand you about the goblins. Remember that goblin is just a different word used in Bilbo before Tolkien invented the word orc.

Celeborn: looks cool! Maybe make it a bit greyer/lighter? I don't think that you should alter the coastline graphics, as this would make all the coasts (which are situated in gondor, not in Mordor) to look like wasteland.

I'll try to make that unit anyway. Maybe there will be some use of it.

P.S.
Does anyone know where can I found some good tutorials about IK animation in 3D Studio MAX? Is anyone but me using 3D studio MAX for creating units?

Ah! Now that we have the unit lines in a relatively stable format, I shall comment.

Men
Subtract 1 from the defense of all Man defensive units. Their defense is just too high, considering that their offensive unit is only 2/1. Also, the Pikeman should only have a HPB of 1, as it has no more armor than the earlier units.

Give the Long Swordsman 7/4/1 stats, and give both of the Swordsmen a HPB of 1.

Missiles look good as they are.

We should have a Lancer, 4/3/2, and have a HPB of 1.

Mordor
Goblin defensive line... This really needs some improvement. First, if you are going to insist on including a Cave Troll here, at least raise his attack to 5, if not 6. Drop the HPB on Orc Spearman, and decrease the Spearmen's defense by 1 in both cases.

Give the Uruk-Hai a HPB of 1, if not 2. They were VERY well-organized troops, and I feel that this would represent that well.

Archers and cavalry look good.

We should also include some powerful units, which would not upgrade at all, and cost a HUGE amount (i.e. Wonderish). The following list includes them.

Misc-units
5-a Olog-Hai - 9/5/1 +3 HPB
5-b Dragon - Air - 0/6/Operational Range: 4 +3 HPB BR1 BA8 ROF3
5-c Giant Spider - 5/3/1 +1 HPB (dunno where this fits in)

Elves
Just give all Elven units a +2 HPB, and increase Elven Cavalry to 5/4/3, and you're good here.

mrtn-then you should´nt call them goblins if they are the same as orcs.

doc-grey fox used 3d studio max I think

Originally posted by Yoda Power
mrtn-then you should´nt call them goblins if they are the same as orcs....

Click to expand...

It's better to call them goblin spearman and orc spearman, rather than orc spearman and advanced orc spearman. Or orc spearman 1 and orc spearman 2. IMNSHO.

Misc-units
5-a Olog-Hai - 9/5/1 +3 HPB
5-b Dragon - Air - 0/6/Operational Range: 4 +3 HPB BR1 BA8 ROF3
5-c Giant Spider - 5/3/1 +1 HPB (dunno where this fits in)

Click to expand...

Isn't a olog hai much the same as a cave troll. Whichever way, we don't have any graphics for it, do we?
I don't like the idea of dragon bombers in a lotr scenario. In an ordinary fantasy scenario it's good, but not here.
And I think that if we included giant spiders, they should be so mighty that it would unbalance the game.

I think you shoud include the Olog-Hai they were very important, im pretty sure someone will make Olog-Hai graphics someday.

edit-btw mrtn have you noticed that it is also Thunderfalls birthday today.

Originally posted by mrtn
Isn't a olog hai much the same as a cave troll. Whichever way, we don't have any graphics for it, do we?
I don't like the idea of dragon bombers in a lotr scenario. In an ordinary fantasy scenario it's good, but not here.
And I think that if we included giant spiders, they should be so mighty that it would unbalance the game.

Click to expand...

Well, Olog-Hai are basically Mountain Trolls, as opposed to Cave Trolls. You may be right about Dragons, although they DID play a very important role in the history of Middle-Earth. And as to the spider thing, that's the point. These units are SUPPOSED to be difficult to kill! But they will cost a LOT to build, on the order of 200+ each.

Noldodan, I see what you try to achieve, it's just that I have less confidence in the AI than you. If the player only played Mordor it would maybe work, but I don't think a Mordor AI will fix it.

Yoda, it's also the birthday of Bob Dylan and Eritrea(!).

Olog-hai are trols that Sauron trained and they could speak some primitive language. They appear olny at one place in LOTR, at the very end. I had tried to make one a while ago, but I gave it up. Olog-hai had this siler (or something like that) skin.
I'm trying to make this now, but I have trouble of modeling it in MAX. Sorry about grammar one more time.

maybe you can make the Balrog really expensive, so that it wouldn't be possible to build more then a few for Mordor.

hmmm...

like mrtn said, the ai would stuff it up...