Does razing conquered cities decrease the science penalty?

Doktor Vic Tim · Sep 20, 2014

Topic.

I wonder because sometimes I just love myself a good old fashioned war against a pushy neighbour, but the 5% (default) science penalty from owning cities whether they're puppeted or annexed keeps me from really wreaking havoc without hurting my science.

And I love my science.

So, does razing/selling cities lower the beaker cost for technologies or is the in crease permanent?

I suppose a sub question would be for policy costs, but puppeted cities don't add to the cost of new policies.

phillipwyllie · Sep 20, 2014

The increase/decrease to tech costs is immediate. So once the city has been razed the tech cost will go down. Same goes for selling cities.

joncnunn · Sep 20, 2014

I'm thinking this works exactly like the culture increasing costs (without the puppet exemption), which is if you immediately click raze you won't be subjected to the increase science costs (unless you stop razing)
But if you don't immediately click raze, then you're stuck with the increased costs. Same if you sell the city.

Primacide · Sep 20, 2014

joncnunn said:
I'm thinking this works exactly like the culture increasing costs (without the puppet exemption), which is if you immediately click raze you won't be subjected to the increase science costs (unless you stop razing)
But if you don't immediately click raze, then you're stuck with the increased costs. Same if you sell the city.

I am so glad you laid out how that works. I've been scratching my head about the fact that sometimes I get a permanent increase and sometimes it drops again. I generally conquer quite a bit, so this really helps refine my game. It stinks to have 6 cities, but be paying the science and policy costs of 12.

Mutineer · Sep 20, 2014

Primacide said:
I am so glad you laid out how that works. I've been scratching my head about the fact that sometimes I get a permanent increase and sometimes it drops again. I generally conquer quite a bit, so this really helps refine my game. It stinks to have 6 cities, but be paying the science and policy costs of 12.

I do not believe it work this way, I believe you only may pay for extra 1 city.

krc · Sep 21, 2014

Mutineer said:
I do not believe it work this way, I believe you only may pay for extra 1 city.

You pay for the maximum number of cities that you ever control at the same time. As long as you finish razing one city before you capture the next one, then you only pay for one extra city. But if you capture two cities quickly and they are both being razed at the same time, then you end up paying for two extra cities.

On the other hand, if you capture another city and decide to keep it after previously razing a city, then it does not add to your costs.

Acken · Sep 21, 2014

You mean after previously razing a city that increased your costs right ?

Doktor Vic Tim · Sep 21, 2014

So, from what I have gathered thus far:

I have 3 cities. I conquer an annoying forward settling jerk of a neighbour's city and it brings the total of cities to 4 cities. I decide that that city is trash (just like its previous owner) and raze it.

Once that city is raised, I am still stuck with a 4 city cost of technology despite having only 3 cities.

But if I decide to build a new city, the cost will not increase the science since it will bring up the number of total cities to 4. This is provided I finish razing the city.

Lanijon · Sep 21, 2014

I have no idea if it's true that your highest number of cities is how it's calculated, but I do know that what joncnunn said is accurate. Once you've taken a penalty there's no getting rid of it, but you can avoid the cost increase altogether by razing immediately upon capture. I've razed dozens of cities and I've never noticed any penalties.

phillipwyllie · Sep 22, 2014

Doktor Vic Tim said:
...Once that city is raised, I am still stuck with a 4 city cost of technology despite having only 3 cities...

How did you determine this? How I do it is to look at the base cost of Future tech and the cost it would take to research it(if I were able to select it). You can't use the currently researching tech as comparison as there may be discounts for civs already knowing it. I've seen the tech cost goes up/down in real-time. Razing cities happens on your turn and not the AI's and I'm sure tech costs are calculated before the city is finally razed.

Doktor Vic Tim · Sep 22, 2014

Alright, so the extra cost is taken away the second you do start razing the city, then?

beetle · Sep 22, 2014

krc said:
You pay for the maximum number of cities that you ever control at the same time.

I am confident that this is correct.

As long as you finish razing one city before you capture the next one, then you only pay for one extra city. But if you capture two cities quickly and they are both being razed at the same time, then you end up paying for two extra cities.

I don't think this is correct. I don't believe that raze-upon-capture permanently raises the count for controlled cities. I have not tested explicitly, but I have looked out for this, and my clear impression is that policy/science costs go up -- but only while cities are being razed. Once the razing in complete (and uninterrupted of course), the policy/science cost drops back down to the level reflecting the former number of controlled cities.

I sure would appreciate finding out that I am wrong about this! If raze-upon-capture two cities simultaneously results in permanently raising policy and science costs, I need to moderate my warmongering!

Doktor Vic Tim said:
Alright, so the extra cost is taken away the second you do start razing the city, then?

No, no matter the answer to the question I just asked, razing after the initial conquest does not reduce policy/science costs.

dasaard200 · Sep 22, 2014

I could be silly about this, but I will bite this bullet for the extra production that new (burp!!) cities, in time, will yield; as my Realm spreads, I can do more with what I have .

joncnunn · Sep 22, 2014

dasaard200 said:
I could be silly about this, but I will bite this bullet for the extra production that new (burp!!) cities, in time, will yield; as my Realm spreads, I can do more with what I have .

Personally in BNW, neither the policy costs (if eventually annexed) nor the science costs are considerations for me when deciding to keep or raze the city.

It's instead is the city bringing anything important that's not already within 3 hexes of another city. If not, it gets burned to the ground to help the other cities.
The 5% penalty will be made up just by post resistance annexing and cash rushing libraries & universities of any number of cities within reason for a standard map size.
On a large or huge map, the penalty is lower.

Doktor Vic Tim · Sep 23, 2014

I understand. It's just that, well, you know, if you're going to start a world conquest, you still want to be relatively careful not to hurt your science too much so your last opponent is too further ahead in technology than you.

joncnunn · Sep 23, 2014

Doktor Vic Tim said:
I understand. It's just that, well, you know, if you're going to start a world conquest, you still want to be relatively careful not to hurt your science too much so your last opponent is too further ahead in technology than you.

You're much more likely to run into global happiness issues first.

BlackWizard · Sep 24, 2014

Razing conquered cities immediately decreases science penalty after razing is over as well as selling puppeted cities. Science cost is permananently raised only when you found city yourself

Does razing conquered cities decrease the science penalty?

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