Submarines: When to use them.
- Thread starter Argetnyx
- Start date
Calis
on time
The problem with sumarines is that they are slow and for destroyers, they are easy to be taken out.
Yeah...the only time I really use them is if I need nukes over on the other continent. But then you're wasting shields and time to build/buy a nuke and a sub, and then the transit time to get them where they're needed, when you can spend those resources on an ICBM and have more immediate results.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
Is there actually any point to an invisible naval unit with AI that "know" what is on every tile? In any case Subs are amongst my least built units.
But one thing interests me atm. Can they carry and fire Cruise Missiles?
But one thing interests me atm. Can they carry and fire Cruise Missiles?
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I recently discovered that Nuke Subs (dunno about normal ones) have the ability to choose a target within a stack [is that what they call stealth attack?]. Anyroad, that's handy to save a little time when you have a settler-on-a-boat situation...once you locate the boat stack.
A bunch of subs is a sneaky way to get the AI to declare war on you, thanks to the Sub Bug in C3C.
A bunch of subs is a sneaky way to get the AI to declare war on you, thanks to the Sub Bug in C3C.
Calis
on time
Yes, normal subs also have the stealth attack ability.
With that bug you mean that a unit tries to move on the same tile as the sub and thus, attacking it accidentically!?
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Yes .
eldar
ChiefTank
Without the sub bug, we'd have never had this story.
That just happened to me the other day, and I was surprised by it because I thought the AI gets the prompt about declaring war too and would decide not to attack if they're my ally.
Here's what happened: on Rhye's C3C map, I'm playing America, and after France declared war on me, I got a bunch of other civs to dogpile her, including weak England, who only have four cities on their little island. I moved a submarine near france to take out any troop shipments, and then one of England's obsolete galleys attacked it of all things. So, now I'm working on taking over their backwards little island.
The stealth attack option of subs is great. I try to keep some near my shores to attack incoming transports by enemies, then use by bombers, cruise missiles and other ships to take out their escorts.
I occasionally park loaded nuke subs near my enemy shores for espionage and cheaper nuking, but arranging them away from their destroyers and aegis cruisers can be a problem.
Here's what happened: on Rhye's C3C map, I'm playing America, and after France declared war on me, I got a bunch of other civs to dogpile her, including weak England, who only have four cities on their little island. I moved a submarine near france to take out any troop shipments, and then one of England's obsolete galleys attacked it of all things. So, now I'm working on taking over their backwards little island.
The stealth attack option of subs is great. I try to keep some near my shores to attack incoming transports by enemies, then use by bombers, cruise missiles and other ships to take out their escorts.
I occasionally park loaded nuke subs near my enemy shores for espionage and cheaper nuking, but arranging them away from their destroyers and aegis cruisers can be a problem.
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
Playing vanilla, subs are even worse since they don't get the "sneak attack" function (or do they?? I guess I never thought to try since the dumb things are so weak). I'm a fan of the "combined fleet" though, and before Aegis I always include a sub in my fleet stacks (along with a couple carriers full of bombers/fighters, a battleship or two, and some destroyers) so I can see enemy subs. This gives me the advantage of bombarding the enemy subs and then sinking them easily. Once in awhile I'll build a couple of nuke subs and put tacs in them just for fun, but that is a rare phenomenon anymore.
Yes, yes, we know about the 'Sub Bug'. I was asking for your uses for them. I do often use the Sub Bug to my advantage, as with the invisibility, and the stealth attack (yes, that is what it is called). Submarines usually constitute about (give or take) a fourth of my total Navy on an average game.
Ninja Flick
Casual Civver
In Conquests destroyers can see subs, so you don't even need them for that function anymore. I only really use them for the novelty of it nowadays. I can't think of a single situation that I've had recently where I thought "Gee, I really need a submarine right now."
eldar
ChiefTank
Their ability to select a target to attack makes them ideal point defenders situated along your coast. If you spot an incoming stack of enemy ships, you can take out the transports and the fleet will turn tail (or maybe sink your subs - but you can cover them with a destroyer I guess...).
Nuclear subs are a different matter, they can transport Tac Nukes which is just plain *fun*.
Nuclear subs are a different matter, they can transport Tac Nukes which is just plain *fun*.
yeah, just wait untill you have a Stack-O-Death and the only way to get to the transports is to kill EVERY ONE of the suckers or just use a sub or two.
But you are right, I only use them for tradition...
I may be mistaken, but aren't ICBMs much weaker than tactical nukes?
Redrake
Chieftain
Tactical nukes aren't affected by SDI so they can be use more efficient, if you can get your subs close enough to the target.
Pretty much the same. The SDI doesn't really effect me, because even I don't let the AI get that advanced. So then it becomes a cost comparison of range/time to build over cost/time to transport.
I'll make both, just so I can have some nukes to move around the map if needed, but generally if I have a choice between the two, I go for the ICBM.
eldar
ChiefTank
The only time I tend to have nukes floating around is in a Space game, where I'm using them as pre-builds. As Tac Nukes come before ICBMs, I'll maybe have 2 or 3. If I'm feeling particularly vindictive, I'll let them loose the turn before I launch. That's when having nuclear subs to move them into place is nice.
That's what I though until vmxa said this:
I guess I'll go back to ICBMs now, and use tactical nukes as a reserve in case of SDI pwnage of my ICBMs by the enemy.
