Anyone find it bizarre that there is no African Civilization?

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deo said:
USA isn't a civ because it's main population is anglosaxonian that is a civ like the slavs that are a civ and not russia. IMO
No. For one thing, Russia includes more than just Slavic peoples. For another, the majority of the USA is not anglo-saxon, and I'm not sure it ever was. There were many Germans, Dutch, French, etc. here from the beginning of the colonies. Actually, so were people from Africa, not to mention of course Native Americans, though most of them unfortunately were quickly murdered by smallpox originating in purposefully infested blankets. I'd look up the current breakdown of country of ancestral origin if my connection wasn't being so crappy. I'd guess "Anglo-Saxons" wouldn't even be a plurality, let alone a majority.

To a previous poster: who would think Van Der Something was Norweigan? :lol: That's Dutch.

I'm Norweigan, Swedish, German, French, Dutch, Welsh, and who knows what else, probably some Native American in there somewhere. My mother's family, the German and Dutch parts, have been in North America since the early 1600s, so I'm a mutt. Anyone who tries to define America by ethnicity is looking at a complete dead-end.

While the rulers of Egypt were Macedonian for quite a long time (Cleopatra's line), most of the citizens of the country, and most of its rulers, were not. But being the crossroads of the world as it was for so long, trying to pin it down to one specific ethnic group isn't really possible, imo. It's only in modern times that we've tried to do that anyway, people used to be much more cosmopolitan. It was Egypt, that's what mattered; being Egyptian was what mattered, not one's skin color.
 
My brother and I discussed the American question much, last year. Suggestions: Floridians (applys to people who live in Florida, me), Yankees (Do the Brits call us Yankees?), Americans (traditional), United Statesians (translated from French ;)).

I'm mostly Swedish, a little Irish, Spanish, and South Carolinan (German&English, ?).
 
I feel really rejected. I answered the whole columbus-not-discovering-america debate really quickly, and no one noticed. :(

Anyways, neriana is totally right on all accounts. Russia has had a ton of different nationalities in it for a long time. Mongols, slavs, Prussians, Hungarians and so on. Plus, the Rus, the ancestors of what would become Russia, were Swedes.

And if you've ever BEEN to America, deo, you'd quickly pick up on how incorrect you are. America has THE most diverse culture in human history, rivaled only by Rome. And while the majority of our population is "white", most of them aren't 100% anglo-saxon, and a good portion have no anglo-saxon in them at all, myself included.
 
Crayton said:
My brother and I discussed the American question much, last year. Suggestions: Floridians (applys to people who live in Florida, me), Yankees (Do the Brits call us Yankees?), Americans (traditional), United Statesians (translated from French ;)).

I'm mostly Swedish, a little Irish, Spanish, and South Carolinan (German&English, ?).

The rebs would take offense to being called a yankee =]
 
DefenderofFutur said:
I feel really rejected. I answered the whole columbus-not-discovering-america debate really quickly, and no one noticed. :(

Anyways, neriana is totally right on all accounts. Russia has had a ton of different nationalities in it for a long time. Mongols, slavs, Prussians, Hungarians and so on. Plus, the Rus, the ancestors of what would become Russia, were Swedes.

And if you've ever BEEN to America, deo, you'd quickly pick up on how incorrect you are. America has THE most diverse culture in human history, rivaled only by Rome. And while the majority of our population is "white", most of them aren't 100% anglo-saxon, and a good portion have no anglo-saxon in them at all, myself included.

I would argue that Canada is more ethnically diverse than the U.S.
 
And I would argue that you were wrong. But that's a whole other story :p
 
USA:
white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)

Canada:
British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%

As an aside to the USA's "White Ethnicity", that includes hispanic/latin ethnicities as well. Which amount to about a quarter of the total population if I recall correctly.

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
 
That breakdown looks unfair. Different categories are used. If Canada can have English, French, and Mixed then the I'd like to see the US breakdown for separate European, "White" ethnicities (there will be alot of "mixed" if given a choice).
 
Djc said:
Mali and Egypt?

They may have other ethnic influences, but there are plenty of 'black' people in both countries.

It would have been great to have Ghana and Benin, but those are fine choices.
not to be coy egypt is more considered an middle eastern country not a black african country,though you are right about many ethnic infulences in the country from european and middle eastern and black african.
 
Crayton said:
That breakdown looks unfair. Different categories are used. If Canada can have English, French, and Mixed then the I'd like to see the US breakdown for separate European, "White" ethnicities (there will be alot of "mixed" if given a choice).

Even if you add together English, French, Mixed, it makes for "White : 66%". Compared to "White : 81.7%" in the US of A.
 
neriana said:
No. For one thing, Russia includes more than just Slavic peoples. For another, the majority of the USA is not anglo-saxon, and I'm not sure it ever was. There were many Germans, Dutch, French, etc. here from the beginning of the colonies. Actually, so were people from Africa, not to mention of course Native Americans, though most of them unfortunately were quickly murdered by smallpox originating in purposefully infested blankets. I'd look up the current breakdown of country of ancestral origin if my connection wasn't being so crappy. I'd guess "Anglo-Saxons" wouldn't even be a plurality, let alone a majority.

To a previous poster: who would think Van Der Something was Norweigan? :lol: That's Dutch.

I'm Norweigan, Swedish, German, French, Dutch, Welsh, and who knows what else, probably some Native American in there somewhere. My mother's family, the German and Dutch parts, have been in North America since the early 1600s, so I'm a mutt. Anyone who tries to define America by ethnicity is looking at a complete dead-end.

While the rulers of Egypt were Macedonian for quite a long time (Cleopatra's line), most of the citizens of the country, and most of its rulers, were not. But being the crossroads of the world as it was for so long, trying to pin it down to one specific ethnic group isn't really possible, imo. It's only in modern times that we've tried to do that anyway, people used to be much more cosmopolitan. It was Egypt, that's what mattered; being Egyptian was what mattered, not one's skin color.

i agree with you about egypt it was the original melting pot.there was an influence from all races there includeing caucasian
 
Ok, well I might be wrong about the fact that there are a lot of white people in America. Regardless, that wasn't the point. My point was that we aren't all anglo-saxon, and since those statistics aren't dividing up the different white groups in America, we can't see that. I'm sure that if you divided that up, the majority might be of Anglo-Saxon descent, but not every one of the 81.7% of people who are white are. There are a ton of Italian-Americans, Russian-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc.

PS: Does that study put Hispanics into the "white" category?? Because I KNOW there are plenty of Hispanics in America, more then there are Blacks.
 
Ok, to correct what I just said, I agree with CdGGambit, in that the American thing is talking about race, not ethnicity, which are different. I was talking about ethnicity, and there was an argument that America was less ethnically diverse than Canada. By adding all the different groups together, I don't know what it is, but non-hispanic whites make up about the same proportion as whites in Canada. I don't know how many hispanics are in Canada, but I don't think there are as many as in the US.

This is a figure of the greatest American "White" ethnicities in 2000:

German 15.2%
Irish 10.8%
English 8.7%
Italian 5.6%
Scandinavian 3.7%

I rest my case.
 
Oda Nobunaga said:
Even if you add together English, French, Mixed, it makes for "White : 66%". Compared to "White : 81.7%" in the US of A.

A. Is Hispanic considered White? Although it is here, it isn't on the census
B. I think Arab is included as White for the US one as well, but not the Canadian one (although I could be wrong).
C. Couldn't "mixed" background be mixed English and French? What would mixed English and Native American be?

Also, diversity has as much to do with cultural diversity as ethnic, which is hard to define, but I'd argue that, not only is there many different cultural influences (Carribean, African, Spanish, Native American, Irish, Italian, German, Anglican), but even some of the "white" cultural areas are vastly different (compare Kentucky to Maine, or Texas to Florida, or California to Pennsylvania, or North Carolina to North Dakota).
 
DefenderofFutur said:
Ok, to correct what I just said, I agree with CdGGambit, in that the American thing is talking about race, not ethnicity, which are different. I was talking about ethnicity, and there was an argument that America was less ethnically diverse than Canada. By adding all the different groups together, I don't know what it is, but non-hispanic whites make up about the same proportion as whites in Canada. I don't know how many hispanics are in Canada, but I don't think there are as many as in the US.

This is a figure of the greatest American "White" ethnicities in 2000:

German 15.2%
Irish 10.8%
English 8.7%
Italian 5.6%
Scandinavian 3.7%

I rest my case.

I actually think there's more hispanics in the US illegally than all of canada. But that's not per capita or a percentage or anything. Just saying :D

In any event, in the USA, hispanics are considered "caucasian" but on census forms "white" is listed as "non-hispanic caucasion".

As far as the US not having a further break down of the "white" category, it's quite impossible to trace most peoples ancestory. I personally can trace to English and German as well as a bit of Native blood (not enough to open a casino though). I don't know how it's different in canada, but as I recall, Canada was mostly settled by French and British peoples, while the United States had a much larger influx of Spanish, Irish, Dutch and German peoples.
 
you know, I've been pondering this thread about African civ's and I've tried, o man have I tried, to understand. See this thread about African Civ's is about 50% devoted to a discussion of America. 1 thing I know for sure, America ain't in Africa.
 
elderotter said:
you know, I've been pondering this thread about African civ's and I've tried, o man have I tried, to understand. See this thread about African Civ's is about 50% devoted to a discussion of America. 1 thing I know for sure, America ain't in Africa.

There do be some African ethnicities here though boss. I agree though, we should move on. What other great African Civilizations are there to add? The only ones I can think of are Egypt, Mali, Ghana? and the Zulu. Would Nubia or Ethiopa qualify? I admit I know little about sub-saharan (or otherwise) history of Africa.
 
Technically calling Oceania a continent is incorrect.

A continent by definition is word used to describe the largest landmasses on the planet. Of which Oceania is not. (Techincally there are 6 continents, Eurasia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and Antarctica, but Eurasia generally gets split into Europe and Asia by convention)

Australia is a continent, and Oceania is basically 'A geographical region'.
 
what a god damn joke, first of all Hispanics are NOT a racial group we are a cultural one,

second of all the majority of Hispanics are of mixed descent not pure white or black or native American

and thirdly never and I mean NEVER have we in the history of the United States ever been thought of as white

so don't insult us by pretending that we are and negating our diverse backgrounds, as it also suggests that white Americans have never been racist against us
 
Oda Nobunaga said:
Even if you add together English, French, Mixed, it makes for "White : 66%". Compared to "White : 81.7%" in the US of A.

Actually the proper comparison would be
US "White"=81.7%
Canada Eng+Fr+Oth Eur+Mixed=92%

Since you note the US survey is looking at racial groups and has no "mixed" which tends to get put in with the white, but includes groups that no one would consider 'white' as Revolutionary pointed out. The fact is Both countries have/had substanial non European immigrant sources (in terms of %, the US obviously has more in terms of numbers)


As for the original topic, for geographical balance the first 3 S.Saharan Africa Civs should Probably be Mali (or Ghana or some Equivalent), Ethiopia/Abbsynia, and Zulu. The first two getting in on pure merit, the last on geographical balance and a bit of fame they got. Remaining ones could be the Khosians (ancient native South Africans displaced by blacks) more in the North West Africa Region (Ghana, etc.) and finally working on the major nations and or tribes in modern S. Saharan Africa.
 
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