Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

Don't waste any time on my stupidity.
I simply forgot to switch to my state religion.(wonder addiction) :blush:
 
You could also use the installer I cobbled together. With this method, the necessary user actions are reduced to clicking the next button a few times. By default, it will also automatically backup the original files before overwriting them with Bhruic's changes.

Sorry, I forgot about that! (Still sometimes it's good to do it the hard way first, no?) :goodjob:
 
By the way, has anyone tried BLESSED_SEA with iNumUnits set to "0" and iNumUnitsGlobal set to "1"? I tried it once this morning, could not get it to work. I verified that I could get the default to work properly, and it failed after I disbanded the galley. Then I tried setting BOTH iNumUnits and iNumUnitsGlobal to "1", and it triggered...but then the quest ended up failing out when I disbanded the galley anyway.
 
I've recently noticed that gifting a missionary to an AI that is using Theocracy results in the AI spreading the religion to a city Without switching civics. I feel this is a bug because Theocracy says No Non-state religion spread. I have seen others talking about this in a cheap tricks thread, I suppose it may not be that high of a priority since you can just not do it, however it would be nice to see a fix.

It seems that the AI should consider whether they want the religion enough to swap civics for the purpose of spreading it. For instance if the AI is going for a cultural victory, having another religion for more temples / cathedrals, or they want to spread the AP religion for more votes.

EDIT: Am I misunderstanding how theocracy should work? Because it seems the human player can still spread a religion that is not their state religion to their own cities. Is it only referring to natural spreading and not missionary spreading?
 
I've recently noticed that gifting a missionary to an AI that is using Theocracy results in the AI spreading the religion to a city Without switching civics. I feel this is a bug because Theocracy says No Non-state religion spread.

Yeah, I've always been confused by the Theocracy description. When I'm in Theocracy, I can always use my own missionaries on my own cities, no matter what the religion is. Theocracy only seems to grant immunity from rival civs' missionaries. So is it a bug or just a case of bad documentation?
 
Yea jray, now that I think about it, I thought that in Vanilla you could Not use a non-state missionary in your own cities in theocracy. Does anyone remember for sure? It feels like that is the way it should work, you are making a tradeoff for the exp by not being able to spread non state religions.... feels buggy.
 
I personally consider it a bug. But it's a "bug" that's been around so long that people have pretty much accepted it as normal gameplay. I'm not sure how supportive some would be about "fixing" it.

Bh
 
About theocracy and non-state religion missionaries.

In the present rule set, theocracy stops the natural spread of non-state religions and stops the foreign missionaries from spreading a non-state religion, but it doesn't stop the state itself from actively (through missionaries) spreading a non-state religion.

The description of theocracy in the civilopedia is extremely short. It just says 'no Non-state religion spread'. It seems people are saying this means that missionaries from other religions should be unable to spread the religion but it doesn't explicitly say that.
Or to put it differently, how would you describe the present rules in one short sentence? The effects of the various civics are all described in very short sentences and these sentences often don't exactly describe what the civic does. Only through experience with the game have we learned what the exact meaning of the civics is.
Another example of a vague description: The holy shrines of the various religions say 'spreads religion'. This doesn't mean that the shrine builds missionaries which go to the various cities. It means that the existence of the shrine building increases the likelihood that the religion spreads naturally to cities that don't already have this religion. But this meaning is not very clear from these 2 words.

Since the description of the theocracy civic isn't very elaborate and detailed, I don't have problems that the state itself can actively spread a non-state religion.

By the way, if you take this ability away from the theocracy civic, then you'll weaken it a little. I don't see the need for that as in my opinion, organized religion is the strongest religious civic. Opinions may vary on this, but it's at least not clear that theocracy deserves a nerf.

On the other hand, I do think that the AI behaviour of automatically using the missionary that they very gifted is a bit buggy. They should consider whether that is a wise decision.
 
Roland Johansen, well said. I see where you are coming from on giving Theocracy a nerf. I still wonder if it was the same way in vanilla though...

As to making the description more accurate, simply add 2 words.. No non-state religion spread by rivals.

On the AI, I agree, it seems they use them no matter what, to the point where it feels cheap. If they are choosing not to spread it, then with espionage in BTS there is another option to get them out of theocracy if you want to spread religion to them that bad.
 
Since the description of the theocracy civic isn't very elaborate and detailed, I don't have problems that the state itself can actively spread a non-state religion.

I don't really have a problem with it operating that way, I just have a problem with it not matching the documentation. But I suppose I'm getting used to that being the case. :)

On the other hand, I do think that the AI behaviour of automatically using the missionary that they very gifted is a bit buggy. They should consider whether that is a wise decision.

Yes, what I've been considering is having the AI automatically turn down all non-state religion Missionary gift attempts. Although I might add a check if it's going for a Cultural victory.

Bh
 
Roland Johansen, well said. I see where you are coming from on giving Theocracy a nerf. I still wonder if it was the same way in vanilla though...

I can't remember that it was changed, but maybe it was.

As to making the description more accurate, simply add 2 words.. No non-state religion spread by rivals.

Wouldn't "No non-state religion spread by rivals and no-natural non-state religion spread' be the correct description? I thought that theocracy also stopped all natural non-state religion spread. I'm not 100% sure because I rarely use the civic.

On the AI, I agree, it seems they use them no matter what, to the point where it feels cheap. If they are choosing not to spread it, then with espionage in BTS there is another option to get them out of theocracy if you want to spread religion to them that bad.

The way that you can use spies to force a religion switch on another civilisation (or a civic switch) is a bit buggy in my opinion. According to some formulas that determine the espionage point cost of such a switch, it seems to be independent of the size of the target civilisation. This independence means that it can become too cheap on huge maps in the late game and it's far too expensive on the smallest map types. In my present game (late game huge map), I could force 15-20 civic/religion switches per turn on my rivals if I set the espionage slider to 100% (and I'm not running an espionage economy). This doesn't seem to work as intended or I really hope this wasn't the way it was intended.
 
I don't really have a problem with it operating that way, I just have a problem with it not matching the documentation. But I suppose I'm getting used to that being the case. :)

Yes, the documentation is often not correct or at least not very accurate. On the other hand, I don't know any other game that is documented this extensively. It's just a big game with a lot of rules. Naturally some rules will not be described accurately. Especially since the game is evolving and the rules change with the implementation of patches and expansion packs.

Yes, what I've been considering is having the AI automatically turn down all non-state religion Missionary gift attempts. Although I might add a check if it's going for a Cultural victory.

No complaints from me if you improved the AI in that way. :thumbsup:
 
Where do i extract this to?
 
A new folder.

Then read the readme.

Then place (copy/paste) the .dll file where the readme says to. Be sure to make a backup/copy of the original .dll and place it somewhere safe.

The extra files are for Serious Modders so just leave them alone. Unless you are a serious modder. Then you would know what to do with the extra files. :)

JosEPh

Ps. Several pages back there are detailed instructions. But they'll tell you the same thing I just posted. ;)
 
I personally consider it a bug. But it's a "bug" that's been around so long that people have pretty much accepted it as normal gameplay. I'm not sure how supportive some would be about "fixing" it.

Bh

Maybe a lot of people (like me :( ) didn't notice the bug because we thought we knew better than to try and spread non-state religions when running theocracy.

Like of one Bhruic's posts about stealth destroyers, it breaks gamers expectations.
 
Oh, I didn't notice it either. It wasn't until KMadCandy mentioned it that I became aware it had changed (I'd swear vanilla didn't work like that). But that's more of a function of the fact that I spend so little time in Theocracy.

Anyway, I made the change to "gifting" missionaries, so hopefully that'll close that exploit.

Bh
 
i don't see the problem with gifting missionaries to the AI and the AI spreading the religion post 3.13.

Sure they may increase your shrine income but they also gain the ability to build an extra temple for + 1 happy for an extra worked tile and the AI also gets a free unit (not spending 60Hammers on a missionary themselves) and it may help them to achieve a cultural victory.

The downside is it may open up the AP diplomatic victory, I believe Diplomatic Victory has changed so you can't vote yourself world leader if you control 60% or more of the votes so it's balanced.
 
i don't see the problem with gifting missionaries to the AI and the AI spreading the religion post 3.13.

Sure they may increase your shrine income but they also gain the ability to build an extra temple for + 1 happy for an extra worked tile and the AI also gets a free unit (not spending 60Hammers on a missionary themselves) and it may help them to achieve a cultural victory.

The downside is it may open up the AP diplomatic victory, I believe Diplomatic Victory has changed so you can't vote yourself world leader if you control 60% or more of the votes so it's balanced.

You don't think the AI should be allowed to refuse your 'gift' in cases where it is unwise for the AI to spread your religion?
 
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