My First Monarch and 20K

I am in a succesion training game with bede (among others) and my confidence is UP

I feel I should move the "the next level" while playing that game. So I started my very first Monarch game and decided I would try for 20K as well. Another first, this beeing my virgin trip on 20K and Monarch I would like to get you folks in on it, maybe get some advice? As I see you nice people doing left and right.

My 2nd incentive to start this thread was the map. I put everything on Random and drew India which is not to bad for 20K i guess since they are Religious meaning cheap Temple and such and commercial for some $

This is the starting position

and the minimap:

Plains, is that good for a 20K capital?

I dont know I guess I will find out..... Any tips before hand?
I am thinkig of moving 1NW and settling there. Roading the Sugar and the BG both with mines as well.

Any help is appriciated.

I would move my worker W onto the hill and see if there is any more grassland. If not i'll stay in place.

To do 20k you need production and science to get Sistine, Newton... Since you're commercial you get extra money toward both

Edit: think its dry, hilly, temperate 60% arch.

I've only ever won a OCC-20k with a costal city so I wish you luck

not sure (hopefully someone can help me out here) but for a good 20k run you need alot of early wonders to accumulate all those points. the last time I done a 20k run I had finished before I got to Newtons.

Also, since your going for 20k, you should build a temple first. Only after 80 turns (say if built it on the first turn) after it turns to 4 cpt.

So, (80x2)+(Tx4) with T being turns. On my calculator it will be only be 4960 turns for 20000 (of course you're going to build libraries and unis. and stuff to add on)

Good Luck!

Looking closer at the map I did deside to settle in place. NW seems only more plains, while due E are grass and SW as well.

I did all but a few turns and I had some increadable (beginner) luck, popping a settler out of my very first GH.

Since we know CB, I think I will research Myst first for the Oracle. Then go "Republic"

Build que I am thinking 2 more warriors for exploring, a Temple (Using a chop to speed up) and a Settler

You'd probably better exploiting your luck: build city 2 in a productive place and use it, rather than the capital, for your 20k culture. This way you can use the Palace as a prebuild for wonders (with the capital you cannot).

EDIT: if you screw up, try with the Babylonian next. Scientific + religious -> el-cheapo temples and libraries.

"If I screw up"?? You mean when? Because I will....

Anyway here is the story for tonight (no or little work makes for lots of civ-ing for a change)

Going a long I founded Bombay on the coast and started a couple of Curraghs. Unfortunatly I did not find a productive place -to my liking- so Delhi is going to (have to) be the 20K...

In 3150 our scollars learn the secret of misticism and start their way to discover the use of letters.
In the same year our hard working citizens finish their temple in Delhi with the aid of some trees.
After visiting a nearby village, we have our first casualty. The natives are restless and the first kills our warrior. He is put to the earth after getting 25g from an earlier village and doing some nice exploring, he will and should be remembered.

In 2590 our second boatsmen spots a lone worker toiling away on the shores of a foreign city called New York, one of the homes of the Americans.
They come baring a lot of knowledge and dollars. Them smartypants allready know BW, Masonry, Pottery and WC and have 60g.
They are willing to share but only for Alphabet, which I do not want to share just yet (wait till we know what to do with them letters, which will take some more time)
Our second warrior falls pray to the same trap as our first in 2470, the casualties start rising.
In 2450bc our wise men have learned what to do with them strange letters in the Alphabet and start to research some way of keeping things in Order, they deside to create some Laws.

In 1950 we meet a stranger. This stranger tells us we are the smallest civ in excistance. We just saw the Americans settle their 3rd city the turn before but so far we are the only ones on our patch of land.

Little more than a centure later, our settler sets off from bombay on a plan to cut of the americans on their little peninsula. The plans have been drawn up:

Part one succeeds in 1600bc, however this lights up a group of traveling americans on their way to foil our plans.

By the way: Look at that minimap!!! Lots of ground, no civ in sight

The year is 1575 and our first wonder has been finished

After the wonder we string out a worker (1 turn) and a Settler (3 turn) from Delhi, for we have no wonder handy.
Now that we are close to CoL (3 turns) in 1550 and low on wonders, its trading time
We trade Alpha to the Americans for Masonry, BW and 39g. A great deal .... I think
Meanwhile one of our boatsmen spotted a lone warrior along the northern shores. He reprisents Isabella of spain.
Both Issabella and good old Abe dont know writing yet, thus we have more than a good chance at Philosophy. Should we take the Republic slingshot or the Literature one?
Having gained Masonry in the trade we start Pyramids in 1450, which we will probably not get As we got a message a few turns before that Issabella had allready started it. Was it a good choice to choose Oracle over Pyramids? them granaries are nice ...

We leave our people in the year 1450bc with some barbarians running our borders, knowing our plans vs the americans have been foiled. (or are they? Still no town settled by them?! Will our people survive the barbarians? Did the same barbarians get the American dreamers? We will see in out next part of this epic story.

What's that strange button in the upper left?

Will comment more later.

TheBB:its CivAssist. a cool thingy by Ainwood that lets you all sorts of stuff. Like the third picture in post seven; it lets you make "planned cities" and other stuff
you can find it here
its awesome

@namliaM
Id stick with it.... with the sugar and all those rivers. with the republic you have a chance. ive only gotten a 20K victory once... AND it was in a scienaro i created.
(the scienario was called "the perfect start" lol)

I would suggest a coastal start for collosus.

Pyramids isn't good wonder. Four culture and 400 shields=bad. Great Library is best wonder culture-wise, 6 and it can double quickly, unlike Sistine's and Shakesperes.

CivAssist has made the game much easier and comfortable to play, no more checking your important city's for riot changes, no more monitoring of trade opportunity's (tho I did not want to trade to early this game to increase my Phylo chances), I think TheBB is pulling our leg and is well known with CivAssist.

Pyramids is same culture as Oracle, Oracle grows obsolete Pyramids doesnt.
Oracle works only if/when you build a temple (in this case invest 30 shields)
Pyramids puts Granary in every city (including your 20K), no investment and much increased growth. IIRC Pyramids are 100 shields more than Oracle and one granary = 60 shields. Thus Pyramids - (Oracle + Granary) in your 20K city, that makes Pyramids 40 shields more expensive. At 8 spt, that is 5 turns. Does not seem to big of an extra investment, to get that extra growth. I think I should have traded for Masonry earlier and gone for Pyramids

I have read a view 20K GOTMs Great Lib is a must for a good 20K victory. Also I am still ambigious to the Republic/Literature question.
Republic is more expensive and will get me into republic faster.
Literature will allow me to start on the GL and library earlier

Allthough i have been playing Civ a quite a while now (years and years) I have never had such a big continent (pretty sure it is) with only 2 competitors on it. Wow what a big space to fill..... and no settler factory

Thanks for the reply's, it helps to know I am not keeping this log for only myself.

Regards

The Mailman

I knew about CivAssist but I didn't know it integrated into the game. I thought you had to exit the game (or at least Alt-Tab out of it) to use it... Thanks anyway.

There is no doubt that Pyramids is a good wonder to have, but I question it's importance in a 20K game. The Great Library is the best ancient wonder to get for culture and you should build it before the AD's so that you get good effect of double culture. Personally, I would get Literature from Philo and use the Pyramids as a prebuild. After the Great Library is done, rush a library.

The GL isn't just most important culture wonder in AA, in the entire game. Shakesperes, only wonder with more culture won't double as quickly (if it ever does).

mailman, get the GLib using the pyramids as a prebuild.
otherwise nice going.
you might think about getting the gardens, but thinking again, sistines and bach's, followed by shakes should let you win.
just make sure to rush that university AND cathedral. use cash, so it gets there that much faster.
also you might think about moving your palace, so Delhi can use a PALACE PREBUILD

Personally when going for a 20k game I prefer a scientific civ. The main reason is the better chance of a scientific leader is a tremendous difference in the game. Either way, it doesn’t matter here.

IMO Pyramids isn’t worth it yet due to the cost. I (like MP said) would use it as a pre-build for the GL and most other AA wonders. Rarely do I ever build the granary unless I can rush it with a SGL. I’ve had a few times where I was still able to hand build the Pyramids.

Another thing, get Delhi to size 12 as quick as possible and get as many lux’s to keep those citizens working. I realize the terrain isn’t very good but it’s a lot easier the closer you are to max size.

I know you’re a MM’er so this shouldn’t even be necessary, but I’ll say it anyway. Make sure you start a pre-build for any and all wonders if possible. This is one of the reasons I leave the Pyramids alone as it makes a great pre-build. If possible never hand build libraries, cathedrals, etc. as your wasting precious turns that could be spent on wonders. Figure up how much the improvement will cost ahead of time than adjust your taxes so that when the wonder is done you’ll have enough gold to rush the non-wonder improvement in a single turn.

Once you’re in Republic I would consider watering the grassland so you can put citizens on those hills and mountains (mined obviously). Do whatever is possible to keep Delhi productive as this is the focus of your game.

I’m not sure if you have the scientific leaders option on, but if you do save them for when you first start a wonder. If you are currently building a wonder and get a SGL try changing your build to an improvement than rushing the wonder. Preferably an expensive wonder. If you’ll waste too many shields switch to a cheap wonder and use the SGL to rush an expensive one.

I figure out what wonders of each era I figure are the best for that particular game and focus on them. Any other wonders I’ll shoot for but realize I won’t get them all. Obviously Shakespeare’s Theater is a definite as it allows you to grow above size 12 without hospitals.

20k victories are a blast and I hope you enjoy it. I’m curious how it works out.