No, no, no ... I cant agree with this Why would cottages be not good for a MP?
It's not the cottage part I'm talking about. It's the part where you don't build defenses and go culture. Surely, you don't think THAT is a good idea in MP
.
How often do you work cottages before writing? I am not that anti-cottage, there are situations when I use them, but I can't remember ever wanting to work them that early. At this point in the game you're only working special resources and whipping/mines. If you are I would suggest that it's one of your bad habits that should be rooted out.
Honestly? Rarely. I've actually done better by doing so on rare occasions, because their turnaround is at its best. The problem is, as you say, production. You don't want to start them too late either, however, or they're not going to pay the opportunity cost of building/working them before one decides the outcome of the game.
Probably the most common time I've built cottages before writing is the early rush (chariot or axe), after the units are out and before maintenance sends me careening into strike. Admittedly, that is virtually never on deity, but not quite never (garbage super UUs and very slow game speeds come to mind).
That synergizes well, too, because cottages are pop efficient rather than tile efficient, and if you successfully rush you just pulled in a ton of tiles :/. This is probably the reason a lot of the good HoF deity space race games run lots of cottages; they cook the settings so they can ASAP grab the land
.
How soon you reach this depends on map/settings. In a slow game I'd be inclined to make 1-2 commerce cities like you suggested. If it's a rich map you will reach SP (or at least guilds+chemistry+caste) workshops early.
SP shops are just soso, it's when you add caste/guilds/chem that they look spectacular. I guess after edu you can go gunpowder ----> chem ----> sci meth ----> communism and backtrade guilds (every single AI hearts the knights!), but even that delays bio to some extent (and forgoes the research multiplier and potential overseas capabilities of astronomy route to communism, but if you take that bio is even later). I have a hard time juggling this. I know, as you say, that it comes down to land available but realistically my strength there is probably just so-so.
Cottages can be maxed out around the same time (FS, democracy), and are actually halfway decent at that point. It's no magic bullet, however, because the infra needed to make them readily converted into
gold: %) + probably kremlin are problematic to acquire while actually working the cottages, pre demo :/.
IMO a lot of this really does hinge on the presence and quality of both tech trades + trade routes. I've yet to find a way where somebody, with NTT, can just bulb their way straight to communism in a timely fashion. You'd need very many GS and even then some good raw research rate. Where do the beakers come from? 8
palace, trade routes, wealth/research, and however many scientists one can run. Assuming 25% (75% capitol) multipliers until education, You'd need a tremendous amount of scientists just to reach 100 beakers/turn, and happy cap/caste to run it. Am I underestimating trade routes here? Without GLH most you can expect in capitol is like 2 3
routes with the 8 palace
. Even with bur, you're talking about ~16-30
(+8 to 15) with 75% research...this doesn't come close to the kinds of stuff I see people pulling...and that's assuming 100% science! You wont pull 100% science in NTT environment unless you stay very small (bad idea) as maintenance catches up.
Maybe I'm missing something here though. I must be. With practice I've gotten closer to deity tech rates, but I'm still not like you guys. I've always just assumed this is strictly inferior micro on my part...and that still might be the case...although I'm not ruling out other holes in my play. I do at least have some games now where I'm pulling in 600-800 beakers/turn at 1000 AD and complete oxford before that. Not quite deity level, but a much stronger win% on immortal and occasionally can keep up in deity when I get the right land.
If I had to pick one thing that seems different in your above screenshots, it's the rate of capitol growth. Where do you come up with the resources for that?! You can pound out warriors for monarchy
, but that drains money from cottages and hurts their value. You yourself mention
allowing it, but often the only way to get more is trading away
, and even then not always!
Games where I can grow my capitol + surrounding cities a lot on resources tend to go very, very well.