Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War

But specialists are not population they are one or two people only or just an or immortal each. Therefor settling "Captives - Citizens" as a specialist does not make any sense, and I am beginning to think the same for "Captives - Military".

Not than any of this matters - I can't add any units to the game without it CTDing somewhere in the middle of the new/load game sequence. As I posted on the bug thread - should have put it on the help wanted thread I expect.
 
But specialists are not population they are one or two people only or just an or immortal each. Therefor settling "Captives - Citizens" as a specialist does not make any sense, and I am beginning to think the same for "Captives - Military".
Click to expand...
To continue to express this properly, I think we need to define the difference between free specialist and citizen specialist.

The free specialist usually comes into the city as a GP. I consider these to be an influence they've left behind on the city for all time, a lesson, a memorial building, a local historical inspiration, a song, a play... in short they've done something great and left a legacy that will assist the city for the rest of all time (thus why they can't be removed from one city, moved, and added to another.)

Right now, this is the kind of slot the slaves fill, and in this role they are a bit out of place.

However, the Citizen Specialist is a whole population dedicated to their specialized profession, be it priesthood, engineering, merchandizing etc... These are the population assignments that players have the option to control. Just saying to establish the definition for the sake of the conversation.

Now, optimally, we could have Settling slaves add themselves to the city as a population while somehow enforcing that they are SET here as Citizen Specialist Slaves and can be nothing else. But since we have no way to enforce that they MUST be nothing but a particular type of citizen, we would need to utilize the 'Free Specialist' slots. We can do this while counting them as proxy population, adding to the Free Specialist (settled slave) version all the added penalties of a population point. The only penalty we can't add is the extra food necessary to grow to the next population point, which is an acceptable degree of inaccuracy.

Optimally, we can program it so that 'free specialists' of the Slave variety, to suddenly become population points instead when Emancipated.
 
Thunderbrd said:
The free specialist usually comes into the city as a GP. I consider these to be an influence they've left behind on the city for all time, a lesson, a memorial building, a local historical inspiration, a song, a play... in short they've done something great and left a legacy that will assist the city for the rest of all time (thus why they can't be removed from one city, moved, and added to another.)
Click to expand...

I kind of consider this to be a bloodline. The great person settles down, gets married, has kids, yada yada, who carry on it's effect for the remainder of the game.
 
Thunderbrd said:
To continue to express this properly, I think we need to define the difference between free specialist and citizen specialist.

The free specialist usually comes into the city as a GP. I consider these to be an influence they've left behind on the city for all time, a lesson, a memorial building, a local historical inspiration, a song, a play... in short they've done something great and left a legacy that will assist the city for the rest of all time (thus why they can't be removed from one city, moved, and added to another.)

Right now, this is the kind of slot the slaves fill, and in this role they are a bit out of place.

However, the Citizen Specialist is a whole population dedicated to their specialized profession, be it priesthood, engineering, merchandizing etc... These are the population assignments that players have the option to control. Just saying to establish the definition for the sake of the conversation.

Now, optimally, we could have Settling slaves add themselves to the city as a population while somehow enforcing that they are SET here as Citizen Specialist Slaves and can be nothing else. But since we have no way to enforce that they MUST be nothing but a particular type of citizen, we would need to utilize the 'Free Specialist' slots. We can do this while counting them as proxy population, adding to the Free Specialist (settled slave) version all the added penalties of a population point. The only penalty we can't add is the extra food necessary to grow to the next population point, which is an acceptable degree of inaccuracy.

Optimally, we can program it so that 'free specialists' of the Slave variety, to suddenly become population points instead when Emancipated.
Click to expand...

You are right, I a just in a very bad mood and should not be trying to contribute to anything at the moment.
 
Thunderbrd said:
To continue to express this properly, I think we need to define the difference between free specialist and citizen specialist.

The free specialist usually comes into the city as a GP. I consider these to be an influence they've left behind on the city for all time, a lesson, a memorial building, a local historical inspiration, a song, a play... in short they've done something great and left a legacy that will assist the city for the rest of all time (thus why they can't be removed from one city, moved, and added to ...
Click to expand...

You could have a small blue line separate added GP or slaves, or you could have a tinted color filter shade them. this way you could keep track of their numbers better. You could also have a total number of them popup when you do a mouse over. It could also be a x/x/x number separating GP/slaves/Citizens.
 
I can't find a way of adding crime, happiness or unhealthiness to a specialist. I suspect these will need new tags.

I need new graphics for these units and specialists. The settled specialists just need the star in the top corner of the normal specialist. I can't get the latest GIMP to work with dds so I can't draft them myself.

For units I am current using the current slave unit as both "Captive - Civilian" and "Captive - Military".
 
Step 1 - settled slaves and settled civilians released
Need extra tags on specialists for (un)happiness, (un)healthiness, crime and revolutionary sentiment​
Step 2 - "Captive - Military" and "Captive - Civilian" released.
Graphics not good. Need to come up with era versions also.

Need to keep the promotions for the military units but not the equipment promotions. Crazy idea should equipment becomes some small amount of loot?

Need to figure out how to capture any settled specialists in the razed city.​
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Step 1 - settled slaves and settled civilians released
Need extra tags on specialists for (un)happiness, (un)healthiness, crime and revolutionary sentiment​
Click to expand...
Use negative iHealthPercent and iHappinessPercent for unhealthiness and unhappiness (-100 would be one unhappiness per specialist).
 
Another try at defining a slavery civic. Part of the problem is what is slavery across time. I still need to transfer some stuff from the current slavery civic.

  • Common Good
    • Starting civic
    • Slave returns as they are now
    • No upkeep
    • Can capture civilians
    • Capture military only if they are running Mercenaries
  • Us and Them
    • Requires Cultural Heritage
    • Slave returns as they are plus
      • +1:) per slave
      • +1 crime per 10 slaves
      • No more slaves that 2x the population of the city
    • Low upkeep
    • Can capture civilians and military
    • Low anarchy cost to convert to this
  • Not Me (citizen)
    • Requires Code of Laws
    • Slave returns as they are plus
      • +1:) per slave
      • +1 :hammers:
      • +1 crime per 5 slaves
      • No more slaves that 5x the population of the city
    • Medium upkeep
    • Can capture civilians and military
    • Medium anarchy cost to convert to this from Us and Them or Common Good
    • High anarchy cost to convert to this from Emancipation
    • May convert half your settled slaves to ???? (and captured military) when change to this civic
  • Emancipation (mostly)
    • Requires ?????
    • No slaves
    • No upkeep
    • Can capture civilians and military
    • Can capture military as prisoners of war
    • Medium anarchy cost to convert to this from Common Good
    • High anarchy cost to convert to this from Us and Them or Not Me
    • Must convert all your settled slaves to ???? (and captured military) when change to this civic

In all but Emancipation population can become slaves (city screen).
 
@DH:

The first three look pretty balanced, I don't know about what Emancipation should require though, or have any good ideas about what it should give.
 
Did you play total war mod?

Personally i think that slavery system in that mod is very well balanced
 
I think Emancipation may need some splitting anyway to allow for clone, uplifted species and mechanical slaves.

Nimek said:
Did you play total war mod?

Personally i think that slavery system in that mod is very well balanced
Click to expand...

Isn't that the Warlords version of Realism Inv..? If so yes but a long time ago.
 
At first glance this looks good. The names of the civics could use a bit more description somehow... I'm not sure I 'get them' the way they are intended.

T'would seem to me that we'd established that settled slave specialists would vanish and become population on Emancipation. I realize this is tough from a python perspective. I could add a boolean tag to the specialist infos and to the civic infos that would cause this to evaluate the possibility that this would happen after any given civic switch. (This would be rather easy now that I think about it.) AI for that would be difficult but possible.

If you'd like, I'll add that to my 'list' among the higher priority slots. Such a task wouldn't take long to accomplish for me I don't think.
 
@Dancing Hoskuld

I don't think we should have a Slavery civic but instead use Afforess' Labor Civic model.

Labor

- Survivalism (Available at Start)
- Slave Labor (Requires: Slavery)
- Caste Labor (Requires: Caste System)
- Serf Labor (Requires: Vassalage)
- Centralized Labor (Requires: Marxism)
- Organized Labor (Requires: Economics)
- Private Labor (Requires: Economics)
- Post-Labor (Requires: Androids)
 
Hydromancerx said:
@Dancing Hoskuld

I don't think we should have a Slavery civic but instead use Afforess' Labor Civic model.

Labor

- Survivalism (Available at Start)
- Slave Labor (Requires: Slavery)
- Caste Labor (Requires: Caste System)
- Serf Labor (Requires: Vassalage)
- Centralized Labor (Requires: Marxism)
- Organized Labor (Requires: Economics)
- Private Labor (Requires: Economics)
- Post-Labor (Requires: Androids)
Click to expand...

Needs Specailsation between Survivalism and Slave Labour but it may work. Do you have a link to the detail?
 
Yes it may work. I'll look at it and see what I come up with. ;) I am going to have to change the slavery mechanic a lot no matter what we do. It will be more complex which is good. I wonder if I can enforce no slave rule if you have Zoroastrianism as your state religion;)

strategyonly said:
Here's a new Slavery Mod, i just found:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=469571
Click to expand...

Seen it and I am investigating our pillage options:mischief:
 
Isn't that the Warlords version of Realism Inv..?
Click to expand...

No. Total War is old mod but it has very neat ideas

good slavery system is one of them.

I dont think that we need another special unit to capture slaves like in archids mod.

In Total Wae mod are others neat ideas
- capture spies and torture them
- free city after capture (similar to civ5)
- creating monopoles on resources

If you want to test that mod play on warlord/prince
this mod is difficult and brings a lot of new concepts
 
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