For sure, if I am going full piety and don't get a religion, that would be no fun at all to play out.
If a person goes full Piety and doesn't get a religion then they didn't do it right, or they tried it on a map where it was never possible to get a religion anyway.
If we start from the proviso that 'a religion is possible' on a given map (even if we may not be able to know this) then it will be made easier to achieve it by going full Piety. OK, it's a big commitment. If you miss out on the 5th religion, you just quit. No one is saying that Small Piety works on all maps. But neither does Tradition or Liberty or Honor. No one is even saying that it works on enough maps to make it as good as Tradition. But people who bash Piety usually miss the point completely.
With Tradition and Liberty, it seems to me that there is usually a religion left by the time of the closer. So is the trick to emphasis cultural-oriented religious benefits? So that the Piety closer and free GPr comes fast enough to found?
No. If you go Full Piety and do it properly, you will have a huge faith output early so you can spread your religion effectively while ignoring things like growth. It's not just about the reformation, though getting to that in short order is a good idea. The Small Piety guide goes into a lot of detail about short-term vs. long-term play, and what to think about when choosing to spend F on mosques or on missionaries.
I don't understand this complaint, since there are
nine of them (plus God King). With three shrines and the early +1 faith SP, even a weak faith pantheon should be enough to found.
Yes. The only exception might be Pearls. They could be too weak to found sometimes.
Which
follower beliefs do you think are of no or little value? And are there several, so you get stuck with at least one? Yes, I much prefer getting a religious building, but even when those are gone there are always a couple follower beliefs that I would characterize as good. (I think the weakest of the bunch is Liturgical Drama, but I have never been stuck with it.)
If you do Full Piety correctly, a) you will seldom have last choice of Follower beliefs; and b) most of them are quite useful, as you say.
I disagree with this as religion benefits your game no matter how many (or few) cities you have. Aside from CS quests, do you try and spread outside your cities? That has never worked for me.
Yes. You need to fight the religious battle. But you will have enough faith to do this if you plan your strategy correctly.
I feel like To the Glory of God and Jesuit Education are the only really strong Reformations beliefs.
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Evangelism is incredibly powerful. And Charitable Missions is the first choice of the Small Piety guide creator as it goes well with general Diplo play. And Heathen Conversion has all kinds of sick uses. And Unity of the Prophets is great too.
Missing out on the best reformation beliefs is only a problem because or your detour with Liberty!
Yes. Full Piety is full Piety. You don't need anything else. You push through the tree and you get a reward at every stage.
You are on the mark there! I understand how Honor can be played competitively, but really I don't think the same can be said for Piety. The Small Piety strategy seems pretty stuck to a diplo win (not that hard anyway). Honor opener is not just for domination runs, and of course Tradition and Liberty work for any VC. I would love to be convinced that Piety has some of that flexibility.
Small Piety is pretty much limited to Diplo, yes. But it virtually guarantees it. It is probably the most consistent individual strategy I ever tried. I think I proved this by winning it with Shaka on DCL #1 (a crowded map).
I admit I never heard of "small-piety". Everything I knew of religion was to go wide
Yeah, that would be a bad strategy on Deity. Small Piety, conversely, practically guarantees victory, assuming you a) know what you are doing, and b) have a faith pantheon. By contrast, even good players are forced to sometimes abandon CV/SV/DomV and pursue other VCs.
I haven't read through the strategy yet, nor have I attempted it. To be fair, I won't comment until I do that. However, the author himself said he re-rolls if he doesn't get a start with a strong pantheon option. It sounds consistent with what I said: it's a risk, and at best only substitutes for what you could have done going with a different opener.
Actually, I have to take issue with the last sentence. On some maps if you didn't play small you would have to face tougher opposition from the local bullies. Which you can deal with, of course, but it's not fair to characterise it as substitution.
It is interesting though, looking forward to trying new things! Also, I know it may be arrogant to ask so I apologize in advance, but is there a more concise write-up for small piety that covers the basic ideas? Obviously I'd read the whole thing before trying, but for the sake of this conversation it would be helpful.
You don't want concise, believe me. You want to absorb everything comprehensively so you don't do what I did and do it wrong the first 3 times.
With something like Church Property, you can can boost your early culture by about 40%. My most successful piety game I actually filled out rationalism before modern era because of this policy. I believe I had 5 CS's following my religion and my neighbor AI didnt found a religion until late so I had a foothold in a few of their cities.
You're talking about World Church, and yes, it's my 1st choice Founder belief for a CV.
If my local team Gateshead had to play against Barcelona would we try and pass them off the pitch? No, of course not. What would we do? Defend for our lives, get in their faces, knock big long balls up to our big lump of a striker. Are we abusing them?
Did Andy Carroll move to Gateshead? :O (fellow Inglander here)
). Maybe it's different on lower difficulties, I dunno, but getting a religion on Deity is brutal even as a religious civ that's gone all-in with Piety. I learned this painfully while experimenting with it after people suggested I do a Piety challenge following the Germany Honor Challenge thread a while back.
) receive the ball back each time their keeper knocked his left cleat against just because it signals some sort of an injury or whatever that's an actual rule, that would obviously be an abuse innit.
Also, Tradition may not be able to beat every map but I would wager it comes very close to doing so. It is simply so powerful and consistent.
