Range vs Logistics

Mantic0re

Mantic0re

Prince
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
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Location
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My ranged guys take these two promotions with 4th and 5th choice. Just curious how others play this out.

Range still needs an eye on the target and if the terrain is rough you still may need to be within the 2-tile city bombard range. Logistics is dependably good for all situations.


Lately I've been going Logistics unless my next target is on open grassland.


Would I be better off sticking to one and filling in the other line (barrage/accuracy)?
 
A majority of the time, Logistics first.

Logistics gives you the added benefit of being able to get 2X Experience. On a Crossbowman, this is really good. On a Camel Archer, this is overpowered/broken.

Getting Logistics means you can get +1 Ranged faster. Getting +1 range means you get logistics slower, but it's safer.
 
I rarely war without Honor, so Logistics = more kills = more money

+ faster XP + faster sweeps to kill AIs before they get units that can resist you

Range is a good option when you can't surround the city and there are 3 or less shooting positions in the 2nd ring.
 
I prefer range. Doesn't need to plan for positioning much. I usually pair them with a horse unit for sight issues.


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I guess I probably shouldn't, but I tend to choose March first before either of these. I guess that comes from my insecurity of my not so decent warring skills.
 
  • Logistics 90% of the time. Logistics doubles the power of your ranged units.
  • Range if i need to take strong cities (Oligarchy+Goddess of Protection+Castle can kill you very fast)
  • March i used to like but not anymore. It's only really needed if you don't have enough units to kill the enemy very fast so it might be useful for defensive lines away from your cities but only if you can't get to logistics quickly.
 
I always go range as keeping my ranged units safe is so important considering how much time has been invested in them. Also, you have a better change of having something 'in range' to shoot at with that extra range. There is generally a hill you can get on to shell a city with impunity.

Now if your deep in the jungle/forest a lot of the time, then maybe logistics trumps.
 
In this thread it sounds like people are giving all of them range first or all of them logistics first, which you definitely don't do. In general I find logistics to be better, but usually one or two (or more) of your units won't be able to fire with logistics but will be able to get a shot off with range. It's highly unlikely that every single one of your ranged units will be able to shoot when they all have logistics and not range.
 
Snipes said:
In this thread it sounds like people are giving all of them range first or all of them logistics first, which you definitely don't do. In general I find logistics to be better, but usually one or two (or more) of your units won't be able to fire with logistics but will be able to get a shot off with range. It's highly unlikely that every single one of your ranged units will be able to shoot when they all have logistics and not range.
Click to expand...

Which is why, when one unit is injured, you retreat it to safety and heal it, and send another one forward to take his turn shooting. Range definitely helps, but Logistics is better in most cases.
 
Sayya said:
Logistics gives you the added benefit of being able to get 2X Experience... Getting Logistics means you can get +1 Ranged faster. Getting +1 range means you get logistics slower, but it's safer.
Click to expand...

Logistics over range seems like a no-brainer, but if your +1 range units tend to be firing at cities while your logistics ones tend to be fighting units, they level up at a more similar rate (since city targets give 1.5x the XP as compared to units). Also, the +1 range units almost never need to pause to heal, so they are firing more often.

I am pretty bad at warmongering, and never have enough units. For a while now I have given preference to +1 range when my first year of play was always picking logistics first. Range-first has had the counter-intuitive results of getting me logistics faster than logistics-first was getting me +1 range. So I would encourage you to experiment with both strategies for a few games each.
 
Also, a bit oot, but can someone correct me on this. On the way to Range/Logistics I always pick the rough terrain bonus because the enemy doesn't have a defensive bonus in open terrain and if I do pick open terrain bonus my units become relatively gimped when firing at rough terrain. If I have rough terrain bonus I can deal a lot more consistent damage no matter where the enemy is, compared to when I pick open terrain bonus when my unit will be decent half of the time and weak on the other half.
 
Erneiz Hyde said:
I always pick the rough terrain bonus because the enemy doesn't have a defensive bonus in open terrain and if I do pick open terrain bonus my units become relatively gimped when firing at rough terrain.
Click to expand...

I tend to pick open terrain for everything, saving the rough terrain promotion for units with a special ability that I would otherwise miss because it is hidden under a generic triangle icon. So I am making sub-optimal choices because I find the UI to be lacking...

Anyway, for ranged units, water counts as open -- so that gets used a lot. For both ranged and melee, open bonus on open terrain makes a big difference whereas rough terrain bonus on rough terrain hardly matters. Also, the promotion counts defensively as well, and defending units on open terrain need the promotion more than defending units on rough terrain. Or maybe I am just after-the-fact rationalizing my sub-optimal choices...
 
I pick Rough/Open depending on the terrain type of the next capital I'm going to assault. So usually Open. Correct me if I'm wrong but this means that the city is worn down faster, right???
 
Erneiz Hyde said:
Also, a bit oot, but can someone correct me on this. On the way to Range/Logistics I always pick the rough terrain bonus because the enemy doesn't have a defensive bonus in open terrain and if I do pick open terrain bonus my units become relatively gimped when firing at rough terrain. If I have rough terrain bonus I can deal a lot more consistent damage no matter where the enemy is, compared to when I pick open terrain bonus when my unit will be decent half of the time and weak on the other half.
Click to expand...

Pick a mix of both and use units that have rough against units on rough terrain and units that have open on units that are on open terrain. For infantry it's more of a defensive bonus and I prefer rough because if I'm going to park a melee as a blocker or damage sponge you may as well put it on a hill.

beetle said:
Anyway, for ranged units, water counts as open -- so that gets used a lot. For both ranged and melee, open bonus on open terrain makes a big difference whereas rough terrain bonus on rough terrain hardly matters. Also, the promotion counts defensively as well, and defending units on open terrain need the promotion more than defending units on rough terrain. Or maybe I am just after-the-fact rationalizing my sub-optimal choices...
Click to expand...

The promotion doesn't count as defense for Range units. Only for melee units. That's why your guys get wrecked by cavalry :p

Since the bonus are all additive, the damage boost of open or rough is exactly the same. It is 15% of base strength (only on the right terrain). However if you expect fights to be in a particular terrain pick that one first of course.
Edit: However, damage is not a linear function of the difference afaik. I think I remember that it's a concave function above 1:1 ratio (and convex before), so that a 50% increase in total strength difference translates to less than a 50% increase in damage (and vice versa when you are weaker). So this would make picking the right promotion for the right terrain even more important.

consentient said:
I pick Rough/Open depending on the terrain type of the next capital I'm going to assault. So usually Open. Correct me if I'm wrong but this means that the city is worn down faster, right???
Click to expand...

No, promotions don't help against city. Only +city promotions.
 
Does ranged-unit Cover still not defend against the City attack, only against other ranged units, even ones inside the city but NOT the city attack itself, am I right?
 
Acken said:
No, promotions don't help against city. Only +city promotions.
Click to expand...

In which case I guess I should only look at the terrain in the 1 ring. Thanks for correcting me. Maybe my sloppy play can get a slight boost! :p
 
I think it is very situational.

Logistics helps a lot against approaching units, so early in the war while you are on the defense.

Once you get the upper hand and march towards the enemy cities, range is the better option to stay out of city range. Especially if there is a range unit in the city and your worker is unable to lure them out, this might be the only option to damage the city without loosing a full HP unit in one turn.

Also the two attacks per turn is only helpful if you do not need to move. With range, you can still walk and shoot at enemies your logistic unit cannot reach at all.

Most of the time I get range first, since it is safer. In some situations logistics will be faster to get that range promotions, but units that need to heal, or have no targets do not get xp at all.
 
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