Indonesia discussion

PrimoXanthous · May 25, 2013

apocalypse105 said:
Can someone give me more information about this leader and civilization never heard of him? Olso they talked about a sword with magic power ? I'm interested in that

what do you mean by magical power??
my grandfather has a pair of kriss and i dont think it has a magical power.

AessaSH · May 25, 2013

knightmare13 said:
what do you mean by magical power??
my grandfather has a pair of kriss and i dont think it has a magical power.

I bet your grandfather never use it to stab a person...
That's why your grandfather's krises never get its magical power..

mitsho · May 25, 2013

seancolorado said:
It's funny how the Indonesia discussions pre-Indonesia BNW is basically everything they ended up giving Indonesia - we talked about Kris Warrior's, Candi's, potential archipelago bonuses, etc etc

Yeah sure, but I guess the idea was to chose 3 out of those many suggestions that somehow mesh with each other or not to create those suggestions in a way that defeats their purpose. On the other hand, the candi would probably be overpowered if it replaced any other building than the Garden...

Calouste · May 25, 2013

mitsho said:
Yeah sure, but I guess the idea was to chose 3 out of those many suggestions that somehow mesh with each other or not to create those suggestions in a way that defeats their purpose. On the other hand, the candi would probably be overpowered if it replaced any other building than the Garden...

If you have two religions in the city, the Candi already produces more faith than any other building or Wonder in the game except the Grand Temple and the Great Mosque of Djenne if you include the free Mosque.

PrimoXanthous · May 25, 2013

AessaSH said:
I bet your grandfather never use it to stab a person...
That's why your grandfather's krises never get its magical power..

yeah, he only use it once when he test it on a chicken.

AessaSH · May 25, 2013

Let's calculate how many religions we must have in every Candi..

Normal UB usually has 3-4 bonuses in them..
However, Candi isn't your normal UB.. It has a restriction (City must be built next to a River or Lake)..

Ratio of cities with Candi and without Candi is varied depending on the map..
However, for the sake of simplicity.., let's set it to 50:50..

That's meant, a single Candi must be equal to two normal UBs to gain the same amount of bonuses (6-8 Bonuses)..
So.., to gain the same level as a normal UB, your Candi must have approximately 2-3 religions in it..
(2 faith bonuses from base faith, 4-6 faith bonuses from 2-3 religions)

Once again, this calculation is varied depending on the map..

CMIIW

mitsho · May 25, 2013

Calouste said:
If you have two religions in the city, the Candi already produces more faith than any other building or Wonder in the game except the Grand Temple and the Great Mosque of Djenne if you include the free Mosque.

I don't say it's not a very strong one, but it's a rather dull and contradictory one. Dull in that you'd best use it for Great Persons two eras down the line (as all the other bonuses are not able to be calculated since you'd need to keep your religions balanced, so they're essentially random and can't flow into your strategy), and contradictory since the Garden gives Great Persons the regular way...

In essence, you need to be very adaptable with regards to your strategy when playing the Indonesians.

PS: The comparison with the Mosque doesn't work since that wonder is designed to make your own religion supreme thereby eliminating other religions and thus the candi bonus. :goodjob:

(That's why I guess the :c5faith:

bonus is so high, because it's hard to achieve)

JSMCAG · May 25, 2013

PhilBowles said:
Gameplay-wise, most UUs don't relate especially well to the main civ focus. I just dislike the conceptual idea of introducing magic kris to Civ.

Well, they are not exactly magical, are they? We've seen three of the possible promotions, they are "Ambition", "Recruitment" and "Heroism" - none of these are specially magical, they are more like... personality traits for the units, or certain tactics these units use, or something along those lines.

Were they called "Avada Kadabra" or "Friendship" then I'd agree, but this doesn't appear to be the case. :crazyeye:

Essentially, this is more of a "After a battle, your unit learns a specific tactic that they will employ on later battles", and not a "After a battle, your unit now has magical power!!1!1". :lol:

seancolorado said:
(If you go back further than that you have stuff like Nao and Feitora being talked about for Portugal)

GAH! It's NAU! This is not Internet 1337 Speak for "now"! :lol:

Leugi · May 25, 2013

Yeah, it's not like the description actually says "magical", it was more the reviewer who used that word...

goodday · May 25, 2013

This is trivial info and unsurprising but in the Taiwanese preview we can see Medan as one of Indonesia's city. Just want to mention it for the record.

seancolorado · May 25, 2013

goodday said:
This is trivial info and unsurprising but in the Taiwanese preview we can see Medan as one of Indonesia's city. Just want to mention it for the record.

Where is this preview? Could you possibly link it? Maybe unsurprising but it's still good to know. (Used to live in Medan)

Louis XXIV · May 25, 2013

pedropavani said:
Well, we talked about a lot of logical things, it is natural that some would get in.

Yeah, this is pretty much true. That being said, I would not be surprised if they looked to our suggestions for some inspiration simply because more ideas thinking of things are better than fewer ideas.

However, the Feitoria was a building in Civ4 so they likely were inspired there. I do think they made the UU a Nau because of the Portuguese players upset that it was called a Carrack so that was a CFC contribution.

AessaSH, good analysis. It's also worth pointing out that the Candi replaces a Garden. This means it produces faith from a building that normally does not produce any. So you can get a whole lot of faith from the Candi on top of the Shrine and Temple.

Bakspatel · May 25, 2013

seancolorado said:
Where is this preview? Could you possibly link it? Maybe unsurprising but it's still good to know. (Used to live in Medan)

He's correct, I've seen that name in the preview as well. I'll check if I can find it back

Edit: got it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZpBFP1bdpc

goodday · May 25, 2013

seancolorado said:
Where is this preview? Could you possibly link it? Maybe unsurprising but it's still good to know. (Used to live in Medan)

This is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZpBFP1bdpc

It's the same preview where we can see the mysterious improvement/king solomon mines(?).

We can see Medan around 1:00. Too bad it's not on a different landmass because shortly after the previewer hover over the establish trade route with Medan button. The resource diversity list would have settled the debate/speculation about the unique resources.

bob massingbird · May 25, 2013

Medan? This make me question: will there be Lake Toba natural wonder? Hell the lake was even referenced in Assassin's Creed II so maybe it is not impossible.

Calouste · May 25, 2013

mitsho said:
I don't say it's not a very strong one, but it's a rather dull and contradictory one. Dull in that you'd best use it for Great Persons two eras down the line (as all the other bonuses are not able to be calculated since you'd need to keep your religions balanced, so they're essentially random and can't flow into your strategy), and contradictory since the Garden gives Great Persons the regular way...

In essence, you need to be very adaptable with regards to your strategy when playing the Indonesians.

PS: The comparison with the Mosque doesn't work since that wonder is designed to make your own religion supreme thereby eliminating other religions and thus the candi bonus. (That's why I guess the bonus is so high, because it's hard to achieve)

In BNW, religious pressure flows via trade routes, so you can get a religion in your city just by setting up a trade route with a city that already has it.

Clause · May 25, 2013

Ah... As Indonesian here, I think this Kris Swordsmen is so wrong. Its effect really way too random and not based on our history. Hope they fix this. Anyway it's great to see Gajah Mada as the leader, only him deserve that spot.

turingmachine · May 25, 2013

Is anyone else concerned how insanely powerful the kriss promotions are? Granted the random element mitigates this but not by much when they're all so strong? I mean +50% combat strength ( even with the defense penalty); fully heal at combat victory (which had to be nerfed on the ottomans and that's on a unit that comes much later and is meant to be stronger).

mitsho · May 25, 2013

Calouste said:
In BNW, religious pressure flows via trade routes, so you can get a religion in your city just by setting up a trade route with a city that already has it.

So?

@turingmachine I'm not sure how much we can deduct from the promotions we know. Are they all or are they just examples? Did they show just the more powerful ones or are they the only ones? I'm not sure... (One could also add that melee units aren't the most powerful ones by themselves anyways...)

Crafty Bison · May 25, 2013

turingmachine said:
Is anyone else concerned how insanely powerful the kriss promotions are? Granted the random element mitigates this but not by much when they're all so strong? I mean +50% combat strength ( even with the defense penalty); fully heal at combat victory (which had to be nerfed on the ottomans and that's on a unit that comes much later and is meant to be stronger).

Agreed that recruitment is strong, but I dunno about the ambition promotion being so strong.
The +50% is great, but the -20% means that the melee unit can no longer serve its primary purpose (as a meat shield). It's purpose is gonna shift more towards that of a horse, but the problem is that it still only has 2 movement. This is gonna make positioning it in your army really awkward.
I guess only time will tell, but I'd like to see a few more of the promotions before casting judgement just yet.

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