Kazakhstan Diplomacy

What will we benefit from Aesthetics in the next, say, two thousand years? I don't see us having any real need for Aesthetics itself, (don't need any of its wonders...) Literature, (can't bother with great library, no freakin GP points for national epic, no unit for heroic epic) Drama, (no dye) or Music. (well this one wouldn't be too bad for the free GA, but too expensive)

We'd be better off getting Mathematics or Iron Working safely and without handing another civ the Parthenon than trading Aesthetics with an untrustworthy civ IMO.
 
Well, if we don't research it, someone else will. And we're missing out on trading opportunities by researching techs others already have. But I agree, not much point in researching it while Kaz are the only team we can trade with.

What would be really nice is if we could meet SANCTA or Cav (or both, that would be awesome). Then we could arrange multiple trades for Aesthetics simultaneously, and get ourselves bumped up considerably by trading just one tech. :)
 
Best way to catch up others is to research techs that others don't have or are not currently researching. Aesthetics may well fall in to these categories. However before doing it we should get more info from other teams about their plans. If Kazs want us to research it, they had to offer us something worthwhile.

Diplomatic situation is problematic. We must get better idea to make desicion within next 6 turns. Only way to do it is have dialogue with other teams. Unfortunately it seems very difficult. Mads are not communicating and Kazs don't seem co-operative. Would some instant messaging system work better than PMs and emails when discussing with them?

I wouldn't research IW in any circumstances. Kazs already have it and it only leads to Compass. Mathematics would be lot better, even if it is quite probable someone is heading for it at the moment. Main value is that it opens possibility to research several other valuable techs that could be used to get tech trades we desperately need (Construction, Currency, Calendar). I think unless we get some kind of deal with Kazs or Mads concerning Aesthetics, Mathematics might be our best option and we could re'evaluate after getting it and hopefully at that time we've found other nations to trade with.
 
Yeah, Maths seems best considering the current situation with Kaz being arrogant and MS being, well, non-existent. (Seriously, their lack of a reply to our message in 10 freaking days is utterly appalling.)

If we met even one other nation (Cav or SANCTA), it might be worth considering Aesthetics. But in the current situation, it's just not worth our while. Kaz would probably betray our trust and trade it away, and MS would probably take 2 weeks to decide on whether they wanted to trade with us. :lol:
 
Lord Parkin said:
Well, it's worth getting Aesthetics if we can then trade for something like Mathematics or Iron Working (or both). But we'd need to make sure Kaz were aware they were *not* allowed to trade Aesthetics to anyone else. To be honest though, I'm not entirely sure I'd trust them with that at the moment.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This is why I really do not want to tech Aesthetics.

Joshua368 said:
What will we benefit from Aesthetics in the next, say, two thousand years? I don't see us having any real need for Aesthetics itself, (don't need any of its wonders...) Literature, (can't bother with great library, no freakin GP points for national epic, no unit for heroic epic) Drama, (no dye) or Music. (well this one wouldn't be too bad for the free GA, but too expensive)

We'd be better off getting Mathematics or Iron Working safely and without handing another civ the Parthenon than trading Aesthetics with an untrustworthy civ IMO.
Click to expand...

On top of what you said, we don't have any marble, ivory, or gold to accelerate production of any Aesthetic wonder.

Lord Parkin said:
Well, if we don't research it, someone else will. And we're missing out on trading opportunities by researching techs others already have. But I agree, not much point in researching it while Kaz are the only team we can trade with.

What would be really nice is if we could meet SANCTA or Cav (or both, that would be awesome). Then we could arrange multiple trades for Aesthetics simultaneously, and get ourselves bumped up considerably by trading just one tech. :)
Click to expand...

SANCTA is currently looking for us, so they should meet us within the next few turns.

plako said:
Best way to catch up others is to research techs that others don't have or are not currently researching. Aesthetics may well fall in to these categories. However before doing it we should get more info from other teams about their plans. If Kazs want us to research it, they had to offer us something worthwhile.

Diplomatic situation is problematic. We must get better idea to make desicion within next 6 turns. Only way to do it is have dialogue with other teams. Unfortunately it seems very difficult. Mads are not communicating and Kazs don't seem co-operative. Would some instant messaging system work better than PMs and emails when discussing with them?

I wouldn't research IW in any circumstances. Kazs already have it and it only leads to Compass. Mathematics would be lot better, even if it is quite probable someone is heading for it at the moment. Main value is that it opens possibility to research several other valuable techs that could be used to get tech trades we desperately need (Construction, Currency, Calendar). I think unless we get some kind of deal with Kazs or Mads concerning Aesthetics, Mathematics might be our best option and we could re'evaluate after getting it and hopefully at that time we've found other nations to trade with.
Click to expand...

Don't forget - Kaz could be trying to trick us by researching Aesthetics that SANCTA, MS, and Cav alreacould already have.

Yeah, no Iron Working. Let's go Sailing and then after that, Mathematics.

Lord Parkin said:
Yeah, Maths seems best considering the current situation with Kaz being arrogant and MS being, well, non-existent. (Seriously, their lack of a reply to our message in 10 freaking days is utterly appalling.)

If we met even one other nation (Cav or SANCTA), it might be worth considering Aesthetics. But in the current situation, it's just not worth our while. Kaz would probably betray our trust and trade it away, and MS would probably take 2 weeks to decide on whether they wanted to trade with us. :lol:
Click to expand...

Good. :goodjob:

But Sailing should go before Mathematics.
 
Message from Kaz:

Hello Team Saturn!

We are sorry for the delay in responding to you. Kazakhstan is a busy place, sometimes too busy for its own good. ;)

We seek nothing but friendship with Saturn and we hope to be able to cooperate. Are you interested in giving us archery in return for masonry? We are also interested in discussing other deals - perhaps we give you iron working for something?

donsig of Kazahkstan
Click to expand...
 
I don't think so. That struck me as odd too.

Masonry is pretty much 100% useless to us at the moment. Coupled to the fact that they seem to want us to research Archery (which would just waste our time), I don't think it's a good trade at all.
 
Alternatively getting iron working could be worth our while expecially if there are lots of jungles down south. Not sure if there are any available techs around that beaker range though.
 
Iron Working would be good to at least see where the Iron is. Otherwise, odds are that sooner or later we'll actually settle on an Iron resource, which will be a pain. ;)
 
Sounds okay. Here's a proposed message - will send it in about 12 hours if there are no objections. :)

Hi Kazakhstan,

I am presently unable to check in the game, but I am fairly sure that we do not have Archery to trade with you at the moment. Masonry would not be of much use to us at present, so we are not really interested in trading for that tech just yet. We would be interested in Sailing, however. If you'd be willing to give us that tech now, we would research Archery and send it to you. We could repay any beaker difference back in the future.

Also, we are certainly interested in your offer of Iron Working. Is there something that you have in mind that you would like in return for sending us this technology?

Sincerely,
Lord Parkin of Saturn
Click to expand...
 
Looks good. However one suggestion:
Only cheap tech we're intrested in is sailing. How about suggesting that they give it to us and then we could research Archery for them. There is beaker unbalance that we could pay back in the future.
 
Okay, added that to the message.

Sent. :)
 
From Kazakhstan:

Hi Team Saturn,

We have a specific tech trade proposal for you:
  1. We gift Sailing (100:science:) once the deal is signed.
  2. You tech Archery (60:science:) and gift it to us the turn after you finish it.
  3. You tech Horseback Riding (250:science:) and trade it with us for Iron Working (200:science:).
Total: 300 :science: Kaz, 310 :science: Saturn
You get sailing immediately from us for the price of 10 extra beakers at the conclusion of the deal. We'd want you to beeline your techs at the best possible tech rate.

donsig of Kazakhstan
Click to expand...
My immediate thought: wow, what a crappy offer. They're the clear tech leaders already, and they want more from us than they're willing to give in return? Plus, HBR is an excellent trading tech that others are unlikely to have, so they may just go and retrade it to SANCTA/Cav.

It might be okay if they'd give us both Sailing and Iron Working now. But still, it then puts us along a dead-end path to HBR which we don't need nor want, all to benefit Kaz by giving them future trading opportunities.

Obviously there's not many techs that Kaz could ask us to get, as there's not many they don't have. So maybe it's unreasonable to get annoyed at them for offering one of the few available deals. But I do feel that there's no point in us making a deal that gives more to Kaz than it gives to us, since all we're doing by that is to push Kaz even further ahead of us - that's simply illogical.

Really, the key thing is that we need to meet SANCTA and Cav ASAP. Once we have more potential trading partners, researching a dead-end tech won't be such a bad option - in fact, it'll become rather good. As for the moment, there's just not enough in it for us.
 
Mad Scientists were also interested in archery. Perhaps we could work on them getting alphabet while we grab these techs (telling them what we plan to research), and plan a trade with them as well.
 
Joshua368 said:
Mad Scientists were also interested in archery. Perhaps we could work on them getting alphabet while we grab these techs (telling them what we plan to research), and plan a trade with them as well.
Click to expand...
MS were interested in Archery? I didn't notice them saying that... :confused:
 
Accept and then stab them in the back asap
 
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