Let's revamp the diplomatic victory.

Hey, fellow CivFanatics!

I've been playing a ton of CiV G&K lately (what else is new?) and been frustrated with the diplomatic victory. We all know it isn't a true diplomatic victory except in rare situations (like playing as Sweden), and it always seems like a "crap, I'm gonna lose if I try and get a science victory - quick, beeline the UN!" victory.
So, as you could've guessed, the goal of this thread is to get some ideas together and form a cohesive, new diplo victory - maybe even Firaxis will take notice. I'll start with some of my ideas.

First of all, the biggest problem is that the diplo victory isn't really a diplo victory - it's really just a financial victory. So I propose this - city-states can only be bribed once, for the minimum influence, once the UN is built. Doing this would limit the effect bribing has on the diplo victory.

The other big problem, in my opinion, is that city-states are too important. Who cares if all the unimportant people in the world like you if you're at war with all the other major civs? To remedy this, we could say that a major civ's vote counts for twice (or thrice) as much as a city-state vote.

Those are a few of ideas. What are yours?

I don't see how the first proposition will help much, as that just means you bribe earlier.
I like the second one, as do many others on the forums.

Cash gift can be just another quest. You pay, the quest is gone, can't buy influence with cash anymore. Next quest - construct Neuschwanstein. Or plant a spy and Coup.

I like diplo victory as financial victory. A nice combo of Patronage+Commerce for a ocean/exploration based civs like Dutch or Spain is always nice.

Moriarte said:

Cash gift can be just another quest. You pay, the quest is gone, can't buy influence with cash anymore. Next quest - construct Neuschwanstein. Or plant a spy and Coup.

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Ooh. I like that.

Moriarte said:

Cash gift can be just another quest. You pay, the quest is gone, can't buy influence with cash anymore. Next quest - construct Neuschwanstein. Or plant a spy and Coup.

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Not a bad idea, but the amount of gold in the game would have to be reduced or costs of other things higher.

It is really simpler than what you propose. I agree, diplo victory feels lacking, but only because of the number of CS. If you use the same number of CS as major civs, then there is no way you can win a diplo WITHOUT major civs on your side... that is the way I play when I want a "tougher", more realistic diplo struggle.

Plus, the new agressiveness of the AI tends to make some CS "vanish" in the early-mid game, so the more stress on the diplo struggle.

For example, play a Standard map with 10 majors and 10 CS, and you will know what I mean. Another world...

I think it would be cool if a UN victory was granted on a "point system" wherein you earn points diplomatically brokering cease-fires and "police actions" based on some ethical value system... slightly raise propensity for AIs to attack city states and smaller AIs, but slightly increase the likelihood they can be "paid or otherwise politically influenced" to stand down. Net result would be "number of little buddies with whom you had influence in their continued existence" over the course of the game.

Idea: Reduce the amount of City State Influence gained from lump sums of gold. Also, increase the amount of City State Influence gained from quests.

Idea: The same things that hinder diplomatic relations in the long term with other civilizations should also have similar long term effects on City State Influence. City State Permanent War on civilizations that declare war on other City States is a good start. Perhaps a warmongering civilization will only be capable of Friend status with City States?

1) When you think about it, major world powers have a lot of client states because they funnel huge amounts of foreign aid $$$ and/or military support to them. I think the "Financial" diplomatic victory models that accurately. It would be nice if gifting military units provided more influence.

2) Ultimately, a diplomatic victory is a really odd one. What are you voting for? Leader of the UN Security Council? Weak. Supreme Ruler of One World Sovereignty? Totally unrealistic.

I would eliminate the diplomatic victory condition, but keep the UN vote. I think it would be better if the result of the big vote is that every city-state gets annexed (Austria-style) by whatever civ they vote for. You can vote for yourself, or vote for another civ and if they also vote for you, you can annex them too. Then things would be equalized between the few major really big empires with relative parity gunning for domination or space race.

Thus, civs like Greece, Siam, and Sweden would slingshot into major science or military powers after the UN vote. Austria's ability would be somewhat nerfed in that the only advantage is that they get to annex city-states early, preventing other civs from getting them. Mongolia's UA was never really much of a factor to begin with, so it will stay the same. The Patronage tree would lose its end-game usefulness, but it would pay off as an advantage at the UN vote. Of course, civs going for a CV would have cultural City-State allies, and they wouldn't want to annex a whole bunch of cities, so they would have an incentive to disrupt UN construction.

By doing this I think it would make the UN vote more interesting, Domination and Science victories would get a shake up, and the Atomic/Information Era would be more interesting as a whole.

Aristos just gave me an idea for a game...

Ill do something like Standard with only 8 city states and 8 civs (myself included) and only 2 victory options open - Diplomatic and Time just to see what would happen. Ill try that perhaps after exams

Gucumatz said:

Aristos just gave me an idea for a game...

Ill do something like Standard with only 8 city states and 8 civs (myself included) and only 2 victory options open - Diplomatic and Time just to see what would happen. Ill try that perhaps after exams

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If you play it like that, then also change minimum tiles between cities to 4 and you'll have a heck of a game...

Eagle Pursuit said:

2) Ultimately, a diplomatic victory is a really odd one. What are you voting for? Leader of the UN Security Council? Weak. Supreme Ruler of One World Sovereignty? Totally unrealistic.

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Because all nations but one getting burned to the ground, colonizing another planet, and one world culture are all ~so real~