SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

I think there is widespread consensus on Fishing->Mining->BW, SIP, and 10 turns on Barracks, so I will do that tomorrow morning, keeping saved games (real saves are safer than Autosaves, because AI-negotiation popups happen just after the Autosave occurs), and Demographics screenshots, and anything else that strikes my notice.

I will then do a real PPP for the next little while.
 
I think there is widespread consensus on Fishing->Mining->BW, SIP, and 10 turns on Barracks, so I will do that tomorrow morning, keeping saved games (real saves are safer than Autosaves, because AI-negotiation popups happen just after the Autosave occurs), and Demographics screenshots, and anything else that strikes my notice.

I will then do a real PPP for the next little while.

When you say "so I will do that", can I assume you mean just the 1st 10 turns?
 
Sounds good to me!
 
I am looking at the progress graphs and have a question I hope someone can answer. The Power graphs and the Culture graphs diverge from 4000bc, how is this possible? Unusual Suspects did not build a warrior at T0-1, and Maple Sporks did not build a Monument or Culture. So why would those graphs diverge that early and NOT when those builds were produced?

And yes, we kick butt in the post count # !!!! :D
 
I am looking at the progress graphs and have a question I hope someone can answer. The Power graphs and the Culture graphs diverge from 4000bc, how is this possible? Unusual Suspects did not build a warrior at T0-1, and Maple Sporks did not build a Monument or Culture. So why would those graphs diverge that early and NOT when those builds were produced?

This is a classic error in producing graphs. These particular plots are based on only two data points each. When a line is drawn between two data points, something is implied about the underlying variation. Here, as you point out, that implied variation makes no sense. Both teams actually have some kind of stepwise variation that is not plotted. Otherwise some teams would spend their first three months deconstructing the other team's games from these plots :lol:

And yes, we kick butt in the post count # !!!! :D

But how's the time integral of our signal-to-noise ratio looking? :)
 
I got a triple-wonder Oracle T94 and GE-Pyramids T148, but I had to rape Elba so hard that we didn't get a galley until after T100, and had 4 cities total at T148. Pyramids by T150 seems fast enough :)
 
Somehow, poor old Joao II did get deleted from my test game. I've replaced him in the attached Version 4 test game. FWIW, the German leader is Frederick, and not Bismarck, as I thought it was.
Spoiler :
Your memory is the second thing to go when you get old. :old:
 
I think there is widespread consensus on Fishing->Mining->BW, SIP, and 10 turns on Barracks, so I will do that tomorrow morning, keeping saved games (real saves are safer than Autosaves, because AI-negotiation popups happen just after the Autosave occurs), and Demographics screenshots, and anything else that strikes my notice.

I will then do a real PPP for the next little while.

When you say "so I will do that", can I assume you mean just the 1st 10 turns?

Yes, sorry, just the first 10 turns. That's as far as we have clear consensus. We will want the data we acquire to reach further consensus.

Sounds good to me!
Sounds good to me as well. Good Luck!
 
This is a classic error in producing graphs. These particular plots are based on only two data points each. When a line is drawn between two data points, something is implied about the underlying variation. Here, as you point out, that implied variation makes no sense. Both teams actually have some kind of stepwise variation that is not plotted. Otherwise some teams would spend their first three months deconstructing the other team's games from these plots :lol:



But how's the time integral of our signal-to-noise ratio looking? :)
I see what you are saying and that makes sense. So based on that, Suspects built something that increased their power, probably a warrior and Sporks seemed to build something that boosted their culture which must be a monument. Neither opening is that strong IMO.
 
I got a triple-wonder Oracle T94 and GE-Pyramids T148, but I had to rape Elba so hard that we didn't get a galley until after T100, and had 4 cities total at T148. Pyramids by T150 seems fast enough
Here is the thing, our testing is best used for getting an idea of what we want to do and how best to go about it. Once we get into the real save, when we see when Stonehenge and the Great Wall are built, we will have a better idea of how soon the other wonders MAY fall. Even at that point it is surly not an exact science. Maybe a T99 Oracle is sufficiently fast to meet our goals. Maybe once we scout around the near islands a bit we find some resources that totally change our plans on when/where to settle. Maybe we are closer than we think to an AI and could actually rush one with metal units.
 
Regarding those firt couple of posted saves - I notice their power ratings are 9000/8000 each. This is most likely starting warrior (2000), wheel tech (4000), Mining tech (2000), population growth (1000/2pop).

USuspects look like they settled on the plains hill, since their culture is 2 behind what it should be if they had settled in place (2*35 turns = 70, they have 68). Maple Sporks are at the correct culture level for a team that SIP (2*32 turns = 64). I don't think either built monuments. Neither has Bronze Working yet, since we would definitely see that in their power rating.
 
OK, I knew Napoleon was born on Corsica, but never knew the name of the town. But Ajaccio is on the island of Corsica, and we've been exiled to the island of Elba. And the two largest cities on Elba are Portoferraio (and if you believe Wikipedia, where Napoleon first came ashore on Elba) and Campo nell'Elba, so we could do something like the attached screen shot.

Or, since the SIP city has Clams & Corn, it gets named Clam Chowder, and the 2nd city 3E, since it will only have Hills land tiles to work, name it Hillsville. :crazyeye:
Well, we are taking some license ... I don't recall Napoleon being born in 4000 BC, or living 6000 years. Maybe in 4000 BC the tectonic plates had not shifted yet and Corsica WAS connected to Elba? :mischief: :lol: ;)

In the past we have named cities for their terrain, so I am fine with that.

If we go with body parts, how about Elba, Wrist, and Knuckle (instead of thumb)? Knuckle sounds more agressive (as in knuckle sandwich).

So if we were to settle a one tile island, since its all water, would we call it Bladder? :mischief: :lol: ;)

Should a new transferred capital be called Brain? And on, and on ...

But how's the time integral of our signal-to-noise ratio looking? :)
I am in charge of keeping signal to noise ratio low, as the Manager of Noise Production (like this post) ... :mischief:

dV
 
Regarding those firt couple of posted saves - I notice their power ratings are 9000/8000 each. This is most likely starting warrior (2000), wheel tech (4000), Mining tech (2000), population growth (1000/2pop).

USuspects look like they settled on the plains hill, since their culture is 2 behind what it should be if they had settled in place (2*35 turns = 70, they have 68). Maple Sporks are at the correct culture level for a team that SIP (2*32 turns = 64). I don't think either built monuments. Neither has Bronze Working yet, since we would definitely see that in their power rating.

Thanks for setting me straight. I apparently have NO idea how to read the graphs, so I will just not open my mouth in that arena any more and look as ignorant as I really am!

I am in charge of keeping signal to noise ratio low, as the Manager of Noise Production (like this post) :mischief:
And doing a damn fine job dV!
 
Regarding those firt couple of posted saves - I notice their power ratings are 9000/8000 each. This is most likely starting warrior (2000), wheel tech (4000), Mining tech (2000), population growth (1000/2pop).

USuspects look like they settled on the plains hill, since their culture is 2 behind what it should be if they had settled in place (2*35 turns = 70, they have 68). Maple Sporks are at the correct culture level for a team that SIP (2*32 turns = 64). I don't think either built monuments. Neither has Bronze Working yet, since we would definitely see that in their power rating.

So DS seems like he achieved the goal of an interesting map-maker and different teams are making different decisions.
 
QUESTION:I don't see a reason to delay researching Code of Laws until after the 3 Wonders are built, just have to resist the temptation to switch to Caste before the Wonders are built IMO, am I missing something?

IMO we may as well get on with CoL after writing in a 3-wonders attempt. There's the side chance of popping a religion we can use, and we want access to courthouses ASAP. Of side interest might be Maths (+50% chops, aqueduct for :health:, access to Currency), Alpha (trading with AIs, access to Currency), Aesthetics (access to Literature for GLib), Iron Working (find Iron, chop jungle).
 
I'm not too fussed about a clean gene pool. A Great Merchant can be saved for a trade mission, or used to bulb Paper, or used for a Golden Age. A Great Engineer will pop our Globe Theatre (this is an elephant in the room - even running post-Guilds Caste with two 1:food:3:hammers: workshops and the two mines, Elba will take more than 30 turns to finish this sucker).

Of course, if we are running a Golden Age, we'll get a bunch of extra :hammers:/turn in Elba, and can do a whipping round, so that should sort out the GT.
 
The Globe Theatre is nice but not critical to our strategy. If we have a lot of cities (and I hope we do) then we probably could spread out the drafting without crippling our empire. 5 turns = 15 musketeers across 15 cities.

With the Globe Theatre we could do 15 musketeers in 5 turns with only 11 cities.
Or we could do 15 musketeers in 15 turns with no unhappiness.
Faster drafting might be more important than avoiding the unhappiness. Especially if we have to wait for the Globe theater to be built after we get Nationalism.
 
OK 10 turns done. We have a whole pile of interesting terrain, including fish for settle-3E, stone and marble in different city sites off-island and crab up north. No contacts, no surprises. My guess of a grassland hill SE was wrong. There are a few forests around, as the camera-flying suggested.

City-3E will never get stone with border pops. It won't get its fish until after its border pop. Clam Chowder might (eventually) get crabs with border pops, not sure (EDIT: yes, the third border pop gets the crabs tile, if we haven't settled it already). Clam Chowder won't get marble from border pops.

The northern island looked like plains forest and plains. Looks like desert and desert hill on the eastern island.

Edited autolog
Spoiler :

Turn 0/750 (4000 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:25:17]
Player Comment Settled CC, spotted marble. So there's something nice for the teams that settle-PFH - then settling the W-island forest, perhaps
Research begun: Fishing (10 Turns)

Turn 1/750 (3975 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:26:19]
Player Comment ...and a bonus for settle-3E! Its own fish! Rock on!

Turn 2/750 (3950 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:29:30]

Turn 3/750 (3925 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:30:16]
Player Comment Crab up north, creating possibility of opening settle-2NE, and settle W-island... good for :health: later too

Turn 4/750 (3900 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:32:29]
Player Comment Going to post warrior on hill 3E, just in case he makes an AI contact

Turn 5/750 (3875 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:34:01]

Turn 6/750 (3850 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:34:31]

Turn 7/750 (3825 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:35:09]

After End Turn:
Clam Chowder's borders expand

Turn 8/750 (3800 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:36:19]
Player Comment Stone off-island to the SE also. DS has given people lots of ways to play!

Turn 9/750 (3775 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:38:07]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Fishing

Turn 10/750 (3750 BC) [01-Mar-2011 08:39:12]
Clam Chowder begins: Work Boat (45 turns)
Research begun: Mining (12 Turns)


Final screenshot attached. Zip archive attached which includes 11 demographics screenshots (before and after settling T0), 10 saved games, and various map screenshots.
 

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