Final Frontier: Problems & Issues (Post-3.13 Update Available)

You haven't tried playing as Lukas von Reuther yet?

I've been trying each leader out. I did my first game with random leaders and got Forge. My current one is with Lukas. So far, my economy has crashed due to expansion (around empowerment). When I played as the Syndicate, I could expand and expand seemingly as much as I wanted. More systems just meant more income. I'd guess that the trade routes pay for maintenance. The economy crash happened with the Forge and Astrotech as well, and I suspect it will for anyone but the Syndicate, because they have money bonuses.

Lukas seems interesting but geared to conquer, not build empires. No bad disadvantages, though. Just that like most of the others, conquest doesn't expand the economy very quickly. It takes time to turn around conquered systems.
 
Another plea for Scout enhancement:

The scouts seem too slow and ineffective. We're expected to make upgrades of them, but there isn't that much need for it. You only have so much space to explore, so later on you just keep them as fog-busters, which don't need speed. I haven't noticed the AI use them, which is another issue -- the scout mission is both exploration and as a countermeasure to stealth.

First off, I think they need a speed boost -- plus one for all of them. No reason that they should be slower than a destroyer or colony ship, is there?

Second, while it could be cool to let them attack stealth ships, and others with a penalty (low combat rating makes this of limited use, but still better than nothing and a way to give them experience), I don't know that the AI could handle that either. So instead, how about a defense bonus?

Something like +200% in asteroids, +400% in radiation and danger zones (because sitting in them kills you, but a unit which can observe it better may die slower?). And maybe +200% against stealth ships, so they are hard to pick off?

And just maybe, something better for the upgrades so that it is worth using them. The speed and sensor upgrades are nice, but the upgrade cost isn't.
 
By the way, any modders come up with the location for that modifier for the "subsequent building increase costs" yet? I still have no clue where it is... :confused:
'
Look in CvFinalFrontierEvents.py for 'def getBuildingCostMod'

default is 2x with 3x for Training Compound, Factory, Manufacturing Plant & Star Fortress.
 
'
Look in CvFinalFrontierEvents.py for 'def getBuildingCostMod'

default is 2x with 3x for Training Compound, Factory, Manufacturing Plant & Star Fortress.

Wow, thank you so much! I never would have thought to look into the "Events" part, so I'm glad you found it! :bowdown:
 
"Another plea for Scout enhancement"

Use destroyers to scout - double movable with a nice defense

The scouts you see out there from the AI are mostly from civs that start with scouts with only the availability of building scouts until they get the correct tech.

Although scouts DO have a great function - put a promoted scout in in each city "on sentry" to watch for incoming stealths; in the sentry setting, they "pop-up" (become active) when a stealth nears your cultural borders
 
While destroyers can indeed explore, shouldn't scouts be better at exploring than a warship?

I do use destoyers myself, because the slow speed of scouts makes them of limited use for the early expansion wreckage-grabbing phase. Wouldn't it be better, though, to use scouts which are specially built for that mission?

I'm going to try modding the speed myself, see how that works out. I don't think it would hurt the game balance at all. The AI definitely can use scouts.
 
a scout is a unit that scouts - just like a sentry is a unit that sentries.

any unit.

early in the game, I use scouts if I have to (but would rather use a pds for it's defense); later I use destroyers as they become cheaper; then I switch to stealths as they become cheaper.

the best (and cheapest) use I found for the scout unit so far is one in each planetary system to "scout" for stealths.
 
Wow, thank you so much! I never would have thought to look into the "Events" part, so I'm glad you found it! :bowdown:

FF is essentially a Python Mod. No DLL changes. So just about everything is contained in one of the four main .py files under assets/python. Where they are is not always intuitive, but they are not all that long so it's worth "reading" through them if you are doing some moding. Doing this gave me some great ideas, like a terraforming building that changes the planet type, buildings that can only be built of certain planet types, lunar mines that can only be built on planets with moons, etc.

By the way the extra trade routes for Red Syndecate are also in CvFinalFrontierEvents.py I believe. I reduced it from 2 to 1.
 
a scout is a unit that scouts - just like a sentry is a unit that sentries.

any unit.

Not exactly any unit can do the exact job of the scout. It has a special advantage in searching wreckage, just like the regular game's scouts. It is a specialist in that role.

Just as the destroyer is a specialist in squadron defense, the cruiser in indirect bombardment (missiles), and the battleship in heavy offense. No other unit in FF does exactly the same role, nor would another unit come close to filling the shoes of another unit.

Except for scouts.


Recon -- observing space which you've already mapped out and looking for enemies -- is another issue. Any unit can do it, but wouldn't it be nice to have a unit specialized in it doing a better job?

Now, the scouts do get better sensors sooner, which is a plus. But without sufficient speed, they are effectively relegated to the duty of a stationary sentinel vs. stealth units.

early in the game, I use scouts if I have to (but would rather use a pds for it's defense); later I use destroyers as they become cheaper; then I switch to stealths as they become cheaper.

the best (and cheapest) use I found for the scout unit so far is one in each planetary system to "scout" for stealths.

The last is a key use of them, and something that only scouts do in the game. The AI doesn't use many stealth ships, but they do use some. If they used more of them, then more scouts would be needed. In a multiplayer game, I'm sure that scout ships would be commonly present and used.

I'd rather put my expensive stealth ships out harrassing my opponents than spotting enemy stealth ships.
 
Sorry for the long absence everyone, been running around a lot and busy with other things, but I'm trying to put some time into FF again. :)

The reason that squadrons are not gaining experience is that the XP values are set to 0 in the Units XML. Change those values to the 4/4 that is in the standard BTS XML file and you will start gaining experience for squadrons.
Prior to 3.13 Squadrons couldn't get any experience or promotions, period, which was clearly a bug. That was fixed and right now they can get experience, but only do so when a unit dies, which is something carried over from vanilla. Not the greatest way to have things work, but it'd be a lot of work to change it just for FF, so this is how things will end up staying. ;)

Jon
 
This file will fix 2 problems with Final Frontiers.

1. Reverses the sort order for Starbases so that culture (actually just plot ownership) from older Starbases takes precedence over newer starbases, newer Stabases could otherwise be used to crowd out older ones.

2. changes the uncolonized system info popup from a left click to a double left click so that it no longer interferes with unit selection and goto commands.

Unzip and replace the existing file:

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Final Frontier\Assets\Python\CvFinalFrontierEvents.py

View attachment 161816

Always remember to backup the original file.
Thanks, I've incorporated these changes into the official version.

Jon
 
I'm not sure, but I think it's a bug in FF (with patch 3.13 installed):

I started a custom Epic game with FF, set Raging Barbarians, and to my surprise, around turn 40-45 I started getting attacked by Pirate Cruisers and Battleships (including one big nasty Omega Battleship). I got destroyed very easily, cause I only had technology as far as to build destroyers (but I hadn't manage to build any, and they are far too weak anyway).

I expected Raging Barbarians to increase the number of Pirate Ships, not to get attacked in early stages by the most powerful ships in the late game. :eek:
Any chance of getting a save with these units in it? Particularly one with an Omega Battleship running around? That DEFINITELY shouldn't be happening. ;)

Jon
 
Does the AI treat Starbases as carriers? I've yet to spot any squadrons on them. Because of that, a sure way to destroy one is a couple of loaded carriers. They can just pound it to death. Since it has no interception ability, there is little risk.

I load mine up with squadrons, and like having destroyers around to cover them. A destroyer is tough enough to wipe out whatever the starbase hammers.

New game, AI used squadrons to defend a system effectively. Between a fighter squadron and destroyer, they took out a lot of my bombers. Shame it didn't help against a stack of invasion and battleships.
Unfortunately it's been really, really hard to get the AI to use Carriers and Squadrons, and not looking like it's ever going to be proficient at it. ;) Part of this stems from the default AI's unwillingness to combine the two (particularly since everything is "naval" combat, more or less, in Final Frontier), and another part from all the changes to the mod which cause it to freak out. As much as I'd like to improve that, it'd simply take too much time to do so.

Jon
 
3.13 Version.. noticed a bug in the code for System Density in def addFeatures(self) inFinalFrontier.py (theMapScript):

# Custom Map Option Stuff
iStarSystemDensity = self.map.getCustomMapOption(0)
iStarSystemMod = 0
if (iStarSystemDensity == 0): # Very High Density
iStarSystemMod = -25
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 1): # High Density
iStarSystemMod = 10
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 2): # Normal Density
iStarSystemMod = -5
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 3): # Low Density
iStarSystemMod = 50

I've corrected it in my copy, but might be something to fix if another BtS patch is released.

Note: Jon knows this, but others might not.. By being positive, when you choose High Density, there are actually less systems present than in Normal Density.
Nice catch, will be fixed. :)

Jon
 
When being attacked or attacking with a steath ship, it reveals the identity of the stealth ship

i.e. - "Your construction ship has been destroyed by a New Earth Stealth Ship"

or - "A New Earth Stealth Ship has killed your PDS" etc etc etc

Does the same thing when a Stealth Ship destroys improvements (tells you the nationality of the stealth ship).

Additionally, when a Stealth Ship approaches a new civ for the first time, then your "unseen" stealth ship causes the previously unmet planet to contact you with the standard greeting.

Now that kind of removes the "stealth" of the ship just a bit.
Took a look at this and it does indeed appear to be a problem. ;) Can you say if you've ever seen the text reveal a Stealth Ship's identity when attacking out in the open? Based on my testing it seems like when a Stealth Ship attacks something FROM a city it will reveal it's identity, otherwise when it attacks it doesn't. I'm curious if anyone has seen otherwise.

Jon
 
@Jon: the major problems i found are the suicide-exploration, the omega pirates coming waaay to early, the impossibility to rename planets (the first planets; the one who get the NP and the MF shouldn't also be automatically renamed to the default city name) and the WB that can't add star systems; will you solve these?

i also think i found a bug (playing as New Earth, i don't know if it happens with other civs) that when default cities name end, and when names like Phyrus or Paradise start appearing in our cities; later on there are planets that start calling TXT_KEY_MARS; (i had a picture, but now i don't:() you can try it yourself; play as New Earth in a large map, but alone. first turn enter WB and add a colony ship in EVERY STAR you can see... eventually TXT_KEY_MARS will show up
 
Do you have any saves with the Omega Pirates showing up early? They should be appearing, but not until at least turn 180 or so.

Jon
 
^

I've posted this image sooner in this thread; notice it is turn 84, and i remember well that in that game i had suffered more omega barbarian strikes earlier...

Images speak for themselves...

(I have 3.13)

Spoiler :
(Alpha and) Omega Pirates come way to early! And I almost always tech-lead, only sometimes in FF i get 100% gold to the StarBases... but i still tech lead, so make the Scout vs Omega Destroyer impossible in next version!



I haven't any saves for now, but i'll create one in no time... that happens be all the time! (I always use custom game and never raging barbarians)
 
Are those Omega PDS's in your city?

It used to be that whatever you could build (omega pds) then the pirates coult build as well (omega destroyer)
 
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