Fixing Great Person Improvements in BNW

I'm always dismayed when anyone says something needs big bonuses. One of the genius things about civ5 is that even one of something can make a big difference. The other part is that it gives you the choice to invest something that pays great dividends later, particularly Academies. It's all a matter of knowing when, how and where to place them (or not). For example with Landmarks in cultural games. Pre-industrial you plant them, after that you do golden ages.

Customs house could be improved, it is a bit underwhelming right now. Do you ever plant GM?

Buccaneer said:

I'm always dismayed when anyone says something needs big bonuses. One of the genius things about civ5 is that even one of something can make a big difference. The other part is that it gives you the choice to invest something that pays great dividends later, particularly Academies. It's all a matter of knowing when, how and where to place them (or not). For example with Landmarks in cultural games. Pre-industrial you plant them, after that you do golden ages.

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If you'd rather not invest that citizen in production to get yourself a wonder which probably has some other benefit. One landmark isn't really going to do much. Culture growth just doesn't work that way currently.

I'm not saying they're terrible and they need a huge bonus. I just don't like tradeoffs.

Simplicity2 said:

If you'd rather not invest that citizen in production to get yourself a wonder which probably has some other benefit. One landmark isn't really going to do much. Culture growth just doesn't work that way currently.

I'm not saying they're terrible and they need a huge bonus. I just don't like tradeoffs.

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If you don't like tradeoffs then don't plant them. If they change academies to give 8 science and two food then that would be overpowered. If each of the great people give 2 food and the normal resources then you would plant most of your great people. I wish they would change the order policy/tenet that give +1 to mines by giving +1 to manufactory as well.

Personally I think all of the great people, with the exception of the GM, are fine the way they are in terms of tile yield and instant bonus. With the Merchant I would like the ability to build on a luxury resource and keep it (mentioned before), or an improvement to the CS tradeoff. However, with the drop off of gold from coast and rivers, maybe getting a GM just before your trade routes are set up will be very beneficial. Will just have to wait and trial the new mechanics.

you are not like to get a great merchant before you have your trade routes up and running.

Leugi said:

I honestly use Landmarks, Citadels (which are the best Great Person improvement), and sometimes, very few times, Holy Sites...

When I have an Engineer lying about I prefer to save it until I can build another wonder... I always use my Scientists inmediatly... But alas, I'm most of the times going to a Cultural victory...

Thing is... That I sort of agree... I wish Great Person improvements would have an interesting bonus aside from the static yield, like Citadels...

Like Holy Sites generating more pressure to other civs if built on borders, Custom's Houses connecting the resource they are in (so you could replace camps and others), Academies improving a percentage of food, Manufactories increasing the ammount of strategic resources if built on one...

BUT, Landmarks per se already have something interesting, as they can be built by Archaeologists on digging sites, as a defensive way of saving it for later or if you're not interested on the artifact...

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You sir, are a genius! And that's all I have to say.

Leugi said:

Like Holy Sites generating more pressure to other civs if built on borders, Custom's Houses connecting the resource they are in (so you could replace camps and others), Academies improving a percentage of food, Manufactories increasing the ammount of strategic resources if built on one...

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Having great improvements have diferent effect would be really nice.At least the landmark will be tied to archeological sites, and the citadel has some uses (tho it could be improved).

I have this idea, for great improvements, so they justify using a GP.

Make great improvements grow the more you work them. Similar to cottages in civ IV only specialized, you switch the focus from something you pop up once and forget about it, to a long term investment. Academies growing into university complex and later to Sillicon Valleys. Pilgrimage sites to Holy Sites to Basilicas. Custom House to Corporation HQ to Financial Center, even Landmarks to World Heritage Site. Heck even citadels could start as Castles and evolve to reworked Citadels with HP and fire back capability.

Besides they could rework the graphics to make them era specific and show the growth.

So thats my idea, turning GI into something good long term that actually makes you wonder if you should hurry a wonder or use the GI. Tho I dont think it could be implemented into BNW, thats yet another thing that can still be improved for a third expansion.

Great merchants could be better. At the moment they are worst great person after Great Admirals.

Custom houses should get a buff of some kind. This buff could also be in the commerce tree - same way like great Prophet buff is in Piety tree.

Since when has the BNW forum become the new Ideas & Suggestions forum. This thread has nothing to do with BNW! It's a suggested change to how great people's landmarks function across the board.

Signed,
Someone who loves the Ideas & Suggestion forum and wants to see more traffic there!

Inhalaattori said:

Great merchants could be better. At the moment they are worst great person after Great Admirals.

Custom houses should get a buff of some kind. This buff could also be in the commerce tree - same way like great Prophet buff is in Piety tree.

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Sloud said:

Personally I think all of the great people, with the exception of the GM, are fine the way they are in terms of tile yield and instant bonus. With the Merchant I would like the ability to build on a luxury resource and keep it (mentioned before), or an improvement to the CS tradeoff. However, with the drop off of gold from coast and rivers, maybe getting a GM just before your trade routes are set up will be very beneficial. Will just have to wait and trial the new mechanics.

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(The bolding is my emphasis.)

It might be cool to let merchants settle on luxury resources and when they do it connects the resource for you and you get an additional copy of that resource. It fits thematically as you'll be selling this extra copy and the commerce tree mentions luxuries. The customs house would also still get the current gold bonus.

Inhalaattori said:

Great merchants could be better. At the moment they are worst great person after Great Admirals.

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Commerce is split now. We know Great Admirals got some love in Exploration, probably Great Merchant got bonuses in unrevealed policies of Commerce too.

Most GP improvements are fine. Academies Rock. Holy Sites are decent. Landmarks are great if you go cultural.

I think the Manufactery could use some love, or rather the rush wonder thing should somehow be changed, because rushing a wonder for me is so overpowered that I will never ever build a manufactory before we reach the stage of the game where all wonders are build. But the worst one ...

Customs House ... oh my, this improvement is so bad, that it's almost shocking. If you could at least build it on a luxury resource and get the combined gold from the luxury AND the Customs House house I *might* build some, but as it is, it's just plain worthless. So this one needs some sort of MASSIVE bonus imo.

That's a cool idea, building Customs Houses on luxuries and getting an extra bonus.

Part of the problem with Great Merchants, of course, is that regular Merchants are crap—the only specialist you never really want to use.

Don't forget the WC resolution Historical Monuments. Plus 2 per Great person tile improvement and plus 4 for landmarks. They really spruced up landmarks. They had to considering how random it might be to get one in range of a city. The piety buff to Holy sites might be more useful now with Piety all religion and the finisher being really tempting with Reformation beliefs added in.

I was hoping that you could use a Great Merchant to get an additional Trade Route, but it looks like that's not going to happen.