Lack of time clock / clock card machine in the workplace

This is sort of a legal question (but can apply to all who have dabbled in employment), to those that have any expertise to offer. So, I currently work in a place where there's no time clock (machine), no real way for the employer to know for certain when the employees are showing up, or leaving.

You're scheduled to be at work during certain times, but due to the fact that it's shift work, and you're relieving someone that worked before you, it's customary/expected that you show up 15 mins prior. No overtime is paid, here, btw (ever). Anyway, what they/we DO use, is just this daily log thing, on the computer. It's just this MS Word document they made up, in which they make various entries pertinent to the job. Also logged (usually by someone other than yourself - your coworker) is what times you arrive and depart. Typically they'll just type it as such, when the person (coworker) that has the file open, sees you for the first time. But this is not my idea of some 'official clock-in thing.'

Now, unfortunately I work with quite a few catty, scheming and uh, "would call it back-stabbing if it weren't so cute" women, that are obsessed with this events log thing, and they just lie in wait to screw someone over (thus the spotlight is hopefully away from them).

I think it's all a bunch of crap. I arrive within my 15-min window (never late - past the top of the hour), and then depart within that window at the end of the shift. I'm not 'shorting my employer on time', by any means, and would be totally content to have a real time clocking machine, so I wouldn't have to worry about it.

But, it's these women... they show up late, and leave early. Then they try to cover themselves by lying on the log (covering their tracks, giving themselves more time credit than they actually worked), and then they'll actually go so far as to give someone else (such as myself... or anyone else) LESS time than when they actually showed up. Again, when you know you're guilty, you try and afix the spotlight onto someone else.

Worst part - the supervisor herself is a catty woman, that is new to the business of supervising. She's fresh out of the environment I described above, and she's being a stickler about "what time the log says XYZ", which had better not equal less than 40 hrs a week.

But it's not a time clock - it's jsut some silly Word document maintained by coworkers. So, question is --keeping in mind that I'm always going to show up at the proper times, do my job, and leave at the proper times-- do I have anything to worry about? It may sound strange, but in this work enviroment where everyone is scheming against eachother - to try to get their rivals fired, I dunno.

My own supervisor keeps badgering me (the new guy) to write statements about this other woman she doesn't like (and wants to fire... but first you need the paper trail). And of course, the other one is talking about filing grievances, etc. against other people, including the boss.

Typical women in the workplace. All I care about, is getting paid, and making sure my @ss is covered. So what's the deal... if it really came down to it, can this crap be used against me, or anyone else for that matter? I would hope not. If the supervisor EVER officially counsels me, or documents anything on this matter, I'm going to file an administrative grievance outlining all of the above... and strongly suggest they get a stinkin' time clock... if they're going to be such sticklers about "a couple of minutes here, a couple of minutes there"... just so they can have you by the balls at all times, with 'a paper trail' standing by to fire you, just because it's their time of the month.

Once again, it's all in 'who you work with'. Anyone that ever says, "I wish I worked with more women", you have no idea what you're asking for.

Tell your employer to get one of those new devices. I don't know the name (it escapes me at the moment), but it's superior to time cards, which, although potentially abusive, are superior to that silly .doc.

This mythical new device scans fingerprints. There's no more lying. A computer stores the information and you can no longer sign in for a friend (what are you going to do, cut his hand off and stick it in the scanner?) You can tell where they are (if there are multiple scanners in multiple rooms), or at the very least, tell when they entered and when they left. There's no way to lie, basically.

On a lighter note, I would have to note that my supervisor is an insatiably attractive hot BABE (like, seriously), who looks like a spanish Jennifer Love Hewitt (from Peru, but she's totally Americanized). Yet, she's a few years older than me (late 20s) so naturally she's got that "I'm looking for an older, mature man, who's well established" thing going, trying to make me feel like I just don't have enough class or something. This also, I think is cute. First day on the job, she was telling me all about her 'boyfriend' who's like 15 years her senior, who has some GREAT job, blah blah.

Yeah well... I've got somethin' you'll like even better than THAT... my little precious Peruvian princess. j/k

Lotus49, find a new job.

Lotus49 said:

This is sort of a legal question (but can apply to all who have dabbled in employment), to those that have any expertise to offer.
[...]
Typical women in the workplace.

Once again, it's all in 'who you work with'. Anyone that ever says, "I wish I worked with more women", you have no idea what you're asking for.

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Lotus49 said:

On a lighter note, I would have to note that my supervisor is an insatiably attractive hot BABE (like, seriously), who looks like a spanish Jennifer Love Hewitt (from Peru, but she's totally Americanized). Yet, she's a few years older than me (late 20s) so naturally she's got that "I'm looking for an older, mature man, who's well established" thing going, trying to make me feel like I just don't have enough class or something. This also, I think is cute. First day on the job, she was telling me all about her 'boyfriend' who's like 15 years her senior, who has some GREAT job, blah blah.

Yeah well... I've got somethin' you'll like even better than THAT... my little precious Peruvian princess. j/k

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Here's my legal advice: you look ripe for a sexual harassment/discrimination lawsuit

there are programs you can download that function as time clocks.

My own supervisor keeps badgering me (the new guy) to write statements about this other woman she doesn't like (and wants to fire... but first you need the paper trail). And of course, the other one is talking about filing grievances, etc. against other people, including the boss.

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I would suggest the paper trail. It is hard (at least in the US) to fire someone unless you have evidence that you knew something bad was happening and you tried to fix it. A statement by you stating that your hours are being altered would be enough to start that file. But don't use vague terms or guesses. If you don't actually see someone edit the file or don't hear that person admit to you that they changed the file don't use their name. Just say "someone is changing the file".

It is also important that you have a paper trail. Waiting until after you are fired for not working 40/week will be too late to complain about this. If you have a paper trail that you believed people are editing your hours you can file a grievence.

Lotus49, stop posting here, and find a new job.

We don't use a time clock where I work, but when you sign out you write on paper and initial it and get the most-senior employee available to initial it as well.

Do you have an HR department, with a representitive that is seperate from yoru department and impartial? If so, I would make sure to meet with that person about the situation.

Otherwise, bring it to your supervisor's attention (in the open in a dept meeting might be even better) that you are not comfortable with the timesheet .doc as anyone can alter it. Mention that you feel that you have been the victim of having your time stamps illegitimately altered, and would like to have a system or machine that more accurately and securely documents time in and time out.

Urge that a accurate, secure system is an absolute necessity, especially if management is going to get their panties in a wad if you're 5 minutes over or under 40 hours.

At the very least, get a grievance or something else in writing to your supervisor about the issue going on with your time stamps being altered. Probably better to go through HR, just so that record is on file. It'll look better for your if your grievance is in first.

If you come to find out that your are documented over your time stamps not equalling 40 hours, ask for the documentation to be thrown out on the basis that a document with Everyone/Full Control rights is not a secure and accurate method for recording your clock ins and clock outs.

If you want a more clandestine approach, contact your IT staff, and see if they can do some file auditing to see who has the time stamp .doc open all the time, and who is making changes after you "clock in."

LightFang said:

Tell your employer to get one of those new devices. I don't know the name (it escapes me at the moment), but it's superior to time cards, which, although potentially abusive, are superior to that silly .doc.

This mythical new device scans fingerprints. There's no more lying. A computer stores the information and you can no longer sign in for a friend (what are you going to do, cut his hand off and stick it in the scanner?) You can tell where they are (if there are multiple scanners in multiple rooms), or at the very least, tell when they entered and when they left. There's no way to lie, basically.

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That would be fine by me. I just want the ambiguity taken out of the equation. I've seen first hand and what baseless 'he said, she said' accusations can do when they gain momentum. -Like what they're trying to do against the previously mentioned coworker here (trying to give her a hard time, and then anytime there's a verbal dispute about anything, they all write up statements saying she's creating a disturbance in the workplace so they can fire her eventually... all because they merely don't like her). It's a bunch of crap. I don't exactly like her, either - but at least I'm sticking with what I believe is right, and not taking part in the screw-over.

Phlegmak said:

Lotus49, find a new job.

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I just got this one, and it pays nicely. And I'm not going to let a bunch of women & catty office politics run me out of here. I was a Marine afterall, and at the end of the day I laugh at this stupid crap compared to what I've been through once upon a time. Having said that, though - I'm always applying for jobs on a regular basis. I move up / strike gold at least once every 18-24 months, on average.

Masquerouge said:

Here's my legal advice: you look ripe for a sexual harassment/discrimination lawsuit

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Aw no, I was just kidding. When I come to work, I act like a professional eunuch. -Which is more than I can say for the women I work with.

mrt144 said:

there are programs you can download that function as time clocks.

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Links?

GeorgeOP said:

I would suggest the paper trail. It is hard (at least in the US) to fire someone unless you have evidence that you knew something bad was happening and you tried to fix it. A statement by you stating that your hours are being altered would be enough to start that file. But don't use vague terms or guesses. If you don't actually see someone edit the file or don't hear that person admit to you that they changed the file don't use their name. Just say "someone is changing the file".

It is also important that you have a paper trail. Waiting until after you are fired for not working 40/week will be too late to complain about this. If you have a paper trail that you believed people are editing your hours you can file a grievence.

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If it comes down to that, I will. As of yet, no one is messing with ME as such, it's just that I'm seeing other people do quasi-malicious things to eachother. So, if that's how they operate, it may be inevitable before I'm in someone's sights - thus I need to be prepared & know what to do.

punkbass2000 said:

We don't use a time clock where I work, but when you sign out you write on paper and initial it and get the most-senior employee available to initial it as well.

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What if there were numerous computer terminals, and the 'time card' was a universally shared .doc file that anyone can go in and edit? No handwriting, no initialing, no sigs, etc.? And on top of that, it's usually one coworker that hogs the file (won't close it so others can make entries), so at the end of the day it A) appears that she did all the work (which in reality is quite the opposite), and B) she doesn't really like anybody so she's not doing you any favors when she 'signs you in'. Plus C) she's covering for herself... so that it's not obvious that SHE is the one shorting the employer on time, more than anythong else. And this is only one person. All kinds of stuff like this is going on.

the_elf said:

Do you have an HR department, with a representitive that is seperate from yoru department and impartial? If so, I would make sure to meet with that person about the situation.

Otherwise, bring it to your supervisor's attention (in the open in a dept meeting might be even better) that you are not comfortable with the timesheet .doc as anyone can alter it. Mention that you feel that you have been the victim of having your time stamps illegitimately altered, and would like to have a system or machine that more accurately and securely documents time in and time out.

Urge that a accurate, secure system is an absolute necessity, especially if management is going to get their panties in a wad if you're 5 minutes over or under 40 hours.

At the very least, get a grievance or something else in writing to your supervisor about the issue going on with your time stamps being altered. Probably better to go through HR, just so that record is on file. It'll look better for your if your grievance is in first.

If you come to find out that your are documented over your time stamps not equalling 40 hours, ask for the documentation to be thrown out on the basis that a document with Everyone/Full Control rights is not a secure and accurate method for recording your clock ins and clock outs.

If you want a more clandestine approach, contact your IT staff, and see if they can do some file auditing to see who has the time stamp .doc open all the time, and who is making changes after you "clock in."

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, my 'HR office' is technically my actual employer (hiring agency, etc.), and they sort of 'lease' me to the organization I work for, in a sense. Plus, I have a union also - though they're more biased towards 'Management-Employee relations' than fighting only on my side. Though, if it came down to some kind of injustice, incident, etc.... they supposedly would serve in the more traditional union role (assuming I was in the right).

As for the IT dept., that shouldn't be tough - you can just look at the log and see who is the only one making entries for hours on end. That doesn't 'prove' she never closed it, though. I wonder if they can tell that...




Anyway, there's all kinds of little stuff like this going on. I was just wondering -generally- is this kind of thing something that can be 'officially' used (i.e. court of law) against someone, to justify terminating their employment? If not, it's all a moot point. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do - I was just wondering if all this silly crap these women are doing is actually a bonafide threat / concern. I would hope not. But if I ever detect otherwise, I'll get the paper trail going. However, it may be tough to SEE the threat, since they apparently work in a 'let's write a bunch of statements behind someone's back, and accumulate stuff without them ever knowing about it' kind of manner. Sort of the U-Boot Wolfpack approach... you don't know there's trouble until all H3ll breaks loose, and at that point, you're gonna take a hit no matter what.

I just have to keep alert, and maintain a vigilant sonar scan for potential trouble at all times... meanwhile, I honestly feel like I'm on that CBS reality TV show Survivor, every day I come into work. Who's alliance will succeed? Who's gonna get 'voted off'?

Who's gonna care about getting the freakin' JOB done...?!