SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ok I got it. 1 turn PPP as per adrianjs suggestion, modified a bit:

1) Move Osaka+Tokyo units toward Kyoto.
2) Move anything else that still has move points left. How many units should I start moving from our west front?
3) Trigger second golden age
4) Change builds in all cities: Osaka+Tokyo+Kyoto+Bombay+Vara to archers. Delhi to Taj Mahal. Vijay+Patal+Agra to Missionaries.
5) Change tech path to Monarchy->Feudalism.
6) Move GG out of Kyoto.
7) Trade out techs for lump sums of cash. Lib to Liz, CoL to Genghis.
8) Trade out gems. Renegotiate other deals.
9) Give defending units useful promotions.
10) Switch a scientist for an artist in Kyoto.

Hit enter, save, and upload save + screenshots.

If there's no objections, I'll do this in 3 hours time.
 
I would move 0 from the west. Just in case, and I am paranoid at this point!

I am confused about the missionary builds, the AI won't change religions on their own because they don't like us enough, and we don't have Alphabet or the EP necessary to change them through spies.

I would like to see ALL cities (excluding Delhi) on military for the short run at least!

What is our actual plan for the GG? Attaching gives a free upgrade. It might be nice to have 1-2 really great LB's for defending.
 
We can't get an Ai to change religion atm but if enough of there pop are hindu they will change on their own. Obv we need to be worried about Hammie as well and it take 5 - 6 turns for units from Palit etc to get to Kyoto. But if they won't change even if all their cities have the religion then def no we want to build military instead.

Resource deals I would cancel gems to Shaka as we want them for ourselves and sell 1 gold and stone. Keep troops in West atm and watch out for stacks from Liz coming from the North as we can close borders if need be.

Good Luck McArine.

We don't have a GG (apart from medic atm). Super LBs would be great though. :)
 
The units Hattie has moving toward Kyoto include 3 War Elephants, 4 Horse Archers & 4 War Chariots. We may want to consider mixing in a few Spearmen with the Archer builds.

Good Luck, McArine!
 
Oh yes, we definitely want some spears to be built. Mounted units make up about 80% of Hatty's non-siege units.

It just occured to me - perhaps Delhi should spit out a couple of spears before getting started on Taj. It has a GG settled there after all. My main concern with building units as far west as Delhi and Varanasi is that the epic battle with Hatty's main stack would already have passed before they arrived in Kyoto.

Looking forward to McA's report .........
 
Report: 1-10, done.

Hatty moved towards us, so what's our next move?

buffylog:
Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 168/500 (1080 AD) [02-May-2012 22:17:51]
Osaka begins: Archer (5 turns)
Tokyo begins: Archer (3 turns)
Kyoto begins: Archer (1 turns)
Bombay begins: Archer (1 turns)
Varanasi begins: Archer (2 turns)
Delhi begins: The Taj Mahal (12 turns)
Agra begins: Hindu Missionary (7 turns)
Pataliputra begins: Hindu Missionary (3 turns)
Vijayanagara begins: Archer (3 turns)
Research begun: Monarchy (1 Turns)
Research begun: Feudalism (1 Turns)
Tech traded to Elizagawa (England): Liberalism
Tech traded to Genghigawa (Mongolia): Code of Laws
Archer 3 (Bombay) promoted: Guerilla I
Archer 2 (Varanasi) promoted: City Garrison I
Spearman 3 (Bombay) promoted: Combat I
Spearman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat I
Spearman 2 (Delhi) promoted: Combat II
Axeman 17 (Vijayanagara) promoted: Combat I
Axeman 17 (Vijayanagara) promoted: Charge
Axeman 20 (Bombay) promoted: Combat I
Axeman 20 (Bombay) promoted: Charge
Axeman 7 (Bombay) promoted: Combat II
Axeman 5 (Delhi) promoted: Formation
100% Research: 536 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
0% Gold: -113 per turn, 472 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Monarchy
Delhi finishes: Spearman
Bombay finishes: Archer
Kyoto's borders expand
Kyoto finishes: Archer

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Elizagawa (England) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Genghigawa (Mongolia) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'


And I'm sorry I forgot to grab the log from the upload screen :-(
 

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Feudalism in only 1 turn. That's really excellent!

Next turn we can switch out to Nationalism + Slavery. Immediately start drafting Osaka+Kyoto+Tokyo. Osaka+Tokyo would have their builds switched to Longbows, which can then be whipped.

What's in Hatty's reinforcement stack? 13 killing units in main stack + 4 units in next stack which will join up before the attack. 17 units vs what we can muster.

T169: We have 21 units now. Hatty bombards defences. her reinforcements join main stack.

T170: 2 more axes arrive and another archer is built, and an axe drafted. Brings us to 25 vs Hatty's 17. We upgrade one or two longbows (whatever gold we can spare / trade for). Slider at 0%.

T170 IBT: Hatty attacks! Expect we kill most of Hatty's siege. Worst case we've lost 17 units, so have 8 remaining. If there is any battle we wish to simulate, this is it!

T171: Upgrade any surviving archers to longbows. Whip another longbow in Kyoto. Draft another axe in Kyoto. More units drafted in Osaka+Tokyo. Move GG back into Kyoto. Kyoto has 11 units in the worst case, some full hp, others fairly well healed by the GG.

T171 IBT: Hatty attacks with injured stack. We Pray!

T172: 2 axes drafted in Tokyo+Osaka, and 2 whipped longbows arrive in Kyoto. Our stack of extra catapults also arrive. At least 3 fresh units arrive each and every turn.

If we make it this far, I think we are safe :) In the short term from Hatty at least...

I see Inca/Mali have gone WHEOOHRN as well. I hadn't noticed before, but Inca is in Free Religion? This game is really looking very intense!
 
Are we going gunpowder after feudalism? Drafted axes are meh.
Forgot to mention that when I met Inca/Mali I sold our map for a few gold and they went from annoyed to cautious.
 
Are we going gunpowder after feudalism? Drafted axes are meh..
Or Metal Casting->Machinery?

With Machinery we can draft Maces, and it's also on the way to Engineering which gives pikes, castles and better roads. The two techs together are also cheaper than Gunpowder.

Edit: Ignore pikes... we don't have any Iron. Do we even have iron working? :lol: I would find it very funny if we've managed to get to 1090 AD without the knowledge of iron working!
 
Did we see unusual hammer tiles (i.e. iron deposits) while invading Toku's lands? I vaguely recall he had swordsmen.

Edit: is Kyoto on a PH or GH? I found an earlier screenshot (post #812) where Kyoto had 2hammers from city center. If it is a GH it would be sitting on an iron source.
 
Dont think Toku had iron as I'm sure I checked when he was still alive for tile yields though might have missed some somewhere. He did have swords though.

Good with the big overflow from monarchy we can gat fuedalism in 1 turn. Need to turn down the slider so we can get it for -35 gold. I'd sell paper to Hammie cheaply. Note we shouldn't have cancelled gem deal with him as we want the supplied resource bonus. So that should give us the cash to upgrade 4 archers to Lbs. If I remember rightly it costs 95 gold per LB.

MM time cats should go via Osaka to Kyoto. Get there the same time but stops 1 turn of unhappies in Osaka.

Well I did argue against putting the GG in Delhi and for having a dedicated mil city. ;) If we want the Taj how much are willing to lose the burea bonus from Delhi? Obv I'd rather lose the Taj than the game especially as we now have even more AI in WHEEOH. Good news is that a few AI have stopped open borders with HC. Hopefully it means he won't be able to get to us?

Delhi?? Prob best to delay the Taj build if we move out of bureau if we miss it we miss it. Also best to change from pacifism to theo if were whipping/drafting. Once we can get LBs though I would get them from Delhi rather than spears as the double promotion and city defence bonus for LBs will make them better than spears v mounted. (Probably) :)

Not sure on PS v rep though as we lose the +3 happies and the research bonus which will affect us. Still better a few unhappy people than a lost game.

Reading the promos (don't mind being corrected if I'm wrong :)) I'll mention again the GG heals the same in adjacent tiles (25%) as it does on the one its on so no need to move back into Kyoto. At least until we have alot of units there anyway.
 
So what does the next 1 turn look like?

1) Move units toward Kyoto, except GG. Catapults move via Osaka.
2) Change Eastern city builds back to archers - ie, Bombay, Kyoto and Delhi.
3) Check for more tech trades, eg, Paper to Hammy.
4) Why are we hiring scientists? Wherever they are, fire them and replace with artists.
5) Is it possible to boost Osaka's production to get the archer finished? Steal a mine or two of Bombay is needed.
6) Adjust slider to save some gold. But be absolutely sure about it! Do this last, ie, after any other micromanagement.

Do we have the option to get AIs to cancel trade deals? Can we convince anyone to stop trading with Liz?
 
I'll be ready to play again in 10-12 hours time.
I'd like to do 2 turns this time, so I need some input on the next thing to research after Feudalism. Are we going for Muskets or Maces?
When do I change civics, and to what? Nationalism + slavery+Theocracy next turn, anything else?
Which techs to trade away, we'll be wanting money for upgrading units, so we'll probably have to sacrifice at least 1 tech.
I'd keep going for the Taj Mahal. No matter if it's a long or short war, we can use the extra golden age.
Other than that, follow adrianjs lists, and the other input received.
 
My thoughts for the next PPP. First I think its important to stop after this one. These next 2 turns are crucial to our game. This turn our defences will be reduced and we will be attacked. Hopefully AI doesn't wait 1 turn to use max collateral damage and attacks now rather the next turn. Obv we wouldn't but this is the AI. :) Now we have 3 archers atm in Kyoto with another this turn. Pse change city build. ;) So If we don't get attacked we can upgrade 4 archers to LBs next turn @cost of 380 gold (I think).

MM.

Both Osaka and Tokyo can produce an archer next turn. Tokyo has to use the gf tile. Osaka will get 2 pop back when you move the cats onto it. Note I think the cats are on a go to order so best to stop that.

I'd sell Hammie paper for his gold. Note don't sell theology as we don't want him changing to theocracy. This will get us enough gold with the slider turned down so we can upgrade 4 lbs and still get feud in 1 turn. Wouldn't sell any others atm until we see what we need to upgrade/push up research rate agian.

Delhi maxing hammers can produce a LB each turn under bureacracy. So if we stay in that I would produce a spear this turn - LB - 1 turn of Taj and repeat until we have enough defenders.

Civic changes.

I'd stick with rep as we still need the research bonus and happy for Delhi/Bombay.
Nat v Bureau. If we change to nat this turn and draft Kyoto/Tok and Osaka. It will still take 2 turns for the units from Osaka and Tok to reach Kyoto. Saying that we can't afford to lose Kyoto so if numbers are important??

Obv if we change from Caste - Slavery we lose the specialists research. Then again we don't actually need anything but drama now so research can be put on hold tho more mil techs would be nice.

So for safety I would probably go PS (if were whipping without any hammers being put in to the build might be important). Nat and draft whip Kyoto/Osaka/Tokyo.

Caste - Slavery and Pacifism - Theo. At least our drafted units will get some xp. Other units will get 2 promos.

Civic upkeep will be alot higher though and not sure how it will affect us. Obv change back in 5 turns though. Edit they are actually the same.

Tech I would go for MC - Maces but prob turn slider off to bank gold after feudalism is in.

Also going from Caste - slavery we lose all our specs so need to mm each city. No scientists though. :)
 
I don't have time to look closely right now.

My inclination is to go 100% military at the moment. That means Police State/Nationalism/Slavery/Theocracy.

I looked quickly at the save, do we want to change now, or wait until we get Feudalism in 1 turn?

If we switch now, CAN we get Feudalism in 1 turn?

I still like hitting the stack with at least 1 cat to inflict some collateral damage. My experience is that the AI tends to wait if his stack gets damaged.

I would even propose to not be in a hurry to play this turn. I would like to see some sim options on the battle ahead of us.
 
Right now, This turn, we shouldn't even be considering a civics change. We need to make sure we get Feudalism and changing out of Bureau, Caste or Rep could put that in jeapordy.

What's wrong with just playing the 1 turn?
 
I'll be ready to play again in 10-12 hours time.
I'd like to do 2 turns this time,
What's so bad about 1 turn at a time?
so I need some input on the next thing to research after Feudalism. Are we going for Muskets or Maces?
My pick would be Metal Casting -> Machinery.
When do I change civics, and to what? Nationalism + slavery+Theocracy next turn, anything else?
As I said, don't even consider changing civics this turn.
Next turn, Nationalism: definitely. Slavery: definitely. Theocracy: might as well. Police State: I think not.
Which techs to trade away, we'll be wanting money for upgrading units, so we'll probably have to sacrifice at least 1 tech.
Techs on the path to Liberalism seem like fair game to me. AIs that learn Liberalism might switch to Free Religion, which is good for us.
I'd keep going for the Taj Mahal. No matter if it's a long or short war, we can use the extra golden age.
After maybe 1 or 2 more units, I think 100% Taj. I don't think units mixed in to the build queue will serve any purpose in the war, and not worth the increased risk of missing Taj.
Other than that, follow adrianjs lists, and the other input received.
I certainly can't complain about this :)
 
City Bombarding Mechanics:

I'm trying to understand this mechanic. 1 normal catapult (no accuracy promo) deals 8% damage to city defences per bombardment. Does that mean it would normally take 12.5 catapult bombardments to completely reduce a city's defences (100% / 8% = 12.5)?

Looking at it another way - Hatty has 9 catapults and 3 trebs, none of them with Accuracy promo. Their combined bombardment damage would be 9*8 + 3*16 = 120%. However, Kyoto has city walls, reducing this amount by half, ie, to 60%. So, am I correct in thinking that Hatty won't actually be able to bombard away all the defences in one turn?

Quite a nice result if this is the case.
 
Looking at it another way - Hatty has 9 catapults and 3 trebs, none of them with Accuracy promo. Their combined bombardment damage would be 9*8 + 3*16 = 120%. However, Kyoto has city walls, reducing this amount by half, ie, to 60%. So, am I correct in thinking that Hatty won't actually be able to bombard away all the defences in one turn?

I think you are right. Aren't we at 60% cultural defense? If so, her units attacking after using all the seige to bombard down to 0% would be very good indeed!
 
Well think there are 17 days left till the end of this GOTM. Whatever we do we need to get a move on. :)

Happy to wait one turn for the civic changes. Just thought it was quicker to get a few drafted units to the front and whip a few.

@AJ Think your right on the figures. Which is why I was hoping Hattie would attack prior to us suffering collateral damage.
 
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