AND SVN Build Thread

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

Sgtslick said:
This was all for good reason.. Beleive me I have a tonne of experience playing on the GEM map and playtested with variations of starting positions a number of times. What I came up with was optimal.

Its not about it being a 'historical scenario' its about balance and giving all the civs somewhat of an equal opportunity to thrive, is far more important. Japan is probably the only exception, probably being at a disadvantage, but I left them in for variety.

I have helped balance the c2c GEM map for over a year and its all mainly been to do with starting positions/area.

The duplicate civs are for good reason - they are obviously called different things such as the 2nd Indian civ being Cholans & 2nd Aztec civ in brazil being Tupi, Mayans are the Apache, duplicate Mongols are Jurchen, then there is china, siam, khmer, mongols also around asia. The 'off placement' of certain civs like greece and russia is very deliberate. Greece in particular unless placed in that particular spot should be removed because they will never get more than 1-2 cities. Russia unless placed further east clogs up eastern Europe and it leaves FAR too much open area to russia's east. This is also the reason for holy roman's inclusion and 'off' placement, etc, etc.

The flag stuff I can understand but as for the civ placements - I think you should definitely reconsider.

I will think about it but my point is that if you play on an EARTH map, it IS an historical scenario. I also have a long experience in balancing the game and I'm not arguing about balancing, but the main point to me is that unless you play with AND Megacivpack which contains more civs (Tupi and others) you end up with doubled or misplaced civilizations which looks ahistorical in an historical scenario. I could add your map because I think that two similar but different maps won't hurt anyone, but I'd like to test it a bit more if you don't mind.

I hope you understand that I appreciate your work even if I've not included it (yet) in the latest revision.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 20, 2013

Rev623

Fixed previous revision, missionaries units couldn't spread religions due to some lines commented out (and now restored), recompiled dll and dropped in assets folder

Sgtslick · Mar 20, 2013

I understand what your saying 45°38'N-13°47'E, its just I put a lot of thought into the civ placements and the civs are just renamed, you don't need the mega civ pack. With default starting positions or historical ones I should say, you will find that certain civs will always do badly, and certain civs will always dominate. I guess it comes down to preference, is historical accuracy more important or having a game which is more fair for each civ. Not saying one is better than the other, just my preference/priority.

RidetheSpiral23 · Mar 21, 2013

45°38'N-13°47'E;12301304 said:
I will think about it but my point is that if you play on an EARTH map, it IS an historical scenario. I also have a long experience in balancing the game and I'm not arguing about balancing, but the main point to me is that unless you play with AND Megacivpack which contains more civs (Tupi and others) you end up with doubled or misplaced civilizations which looks ahistorical in an historical scenario. I could add your map because I think that two similar but different maps won't hurt anyone, but I'd like to test it a bit more if you don't mind. I hope you understand that I appreciate your work even if I've not included it (yet) in the latest revision.

If you prefer to keep the map historically accurate but maintain balance you can always adjust the handicap listed for the civs in the world builder save so that civs with tons of room to grow don't far outpace others and the ones restricted to smaller areas can do better. Just a piece of advice.

dudeSDCA · Mar 21, 2013

JosEPh_II said:
I know and was wondering if he had somehow reactivated it. Or made some other modification.

Most of these posters when they have a problem do not give any details. I never mastered the "Rabbit out of the Hat" ability at guessing.

JosEPh

Sorry - didn't mean to be ambiguous. I figured if it worked in v619, and stopped working when v622 came out (that dealt with religion fixes) the problem was likely in the DLL.

- But no idea with Divine Prophet is, or how to turn it on/off (I'm curious now and can't find it in the BUG menu...)
- Didn't know I could limit the # of religions (where's that option??)
- Am playing with multiple religion spread
- Religion decay was not on
- Main reason I figured it was a bug was that new cities with no religions were "failing" to get the religion, even if I stacked 20+ scribes on the city using WB to see if it was an odds (% success) issue

Thanks for the quick fix in v623 -- religions can be spread using missionaries again!

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 21, 2013

RidetheSpiral23 said:
If you prefer to keep the map historically accurate but maintain balance you can always adjust the handicap listed for the civs in the world builder save so that civs with tons of room to grow don't far outpace others and the ones restricted to smaller areas can do better. Just a piece of advice.

Thank you, I was thinking of something of that kind because the problem with Civilization (vanilla or mods) is that many times development of civs is dependant on their starting locations. Of course playing on the same earth map again and again you will find that it's easier to win with a specific civ and it's harder with another one and there's little that can be done. But I will surely try to balance earth map games as good as possible.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 21, 2013

dudeSDCA said:
Sorry - didn't mean to be ambiguous. I figured if it worked in v619, and stopped working when v622 came out (that dealt with religion fixes) the problem was likely in the DLL.

- But no idea with Divine Prophet is, or how to turn it on/off (I'm curious now and can't find it in the BUG menu...)

Divine Prophet was an option in original AND2 beta2 which was imported from C2C and removed because incomplete/buggy at the time or only partially imported by jtanner28, I think. It makes you need a Great Prophet to found a religion, but it's currently turned off in AND2.

dudeSDCA said:
- Didn't know I could limit the # of religions (where's that option??)

Mmmmm... to tell the truth, I also don't remember and I don't even know if it's possible or if it's a feature of C2C. You can limit the number of religions founded (and that's Limited Religions option at the start of the game), but I don't think you can limit # of religions per city in AND2.

dudeSDCA said:
Thanks for the quick fix in v623 -- religions can be spread using missionaries again!

Thank you for reporting that bug, I commented out some code by mistake and it was a quick fix to restore the dll.

JosEPh_II · Mar 21, 2013

dudeSDCA wrote:- Didn't know I could limit the # of religions (where's that option??)

You misunderstood, there is an option that allows up to (or more?) than 7 religions in a city. Not limits the number of religions allowed in a city.

JosEPh

Kryanni · Mar 25, 2013

I haven't actually installed any SVN build of AND just yet - still on the old stable build by Afforess - but I have 1 question: are the tech tree "colours by era" still the same? It's kind of hard to SEE which techs I have vs techs I haven't for some eras. Having the researched techs bordered in colour would be more visually distinct imho.

On a related note, ditto the popup message at the beginning of a turn when you complete a tech - I have the option to set the message display to "wide" and show the tech flavour text as well, results is the top part of the message box is kinda hard to read. I'll post a picture when I get home from work.

Agamemnon582bc · Mar 26, 2013

So what are the new changes/features from the regular old AND? I've looked everywhere but haven't found anything. Can you limit era progress (like you can in CCV)? It'd be great to play ROM without ever touching the Future Era. Have tech eras in general been fixed? Physics, for instance, shows up far too early in the tech tree. And is there an option to disable all the barbarian-type units (aside from Privateers)?

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 26, 2013

Agamemnon582bc said:
So what are the new changes/features from the regular old AND? I've looked everywhere but haven't found anything. Can you limit era progress (like you can in CCV)? It'd be great to play ROM without ever touching the Future Era. Have tech eras in general been fixed? Physics, for instance, shows up far too early in the tech tree. And is there an option to disable all the barbarian-type units (aside from Privateers)?

There isn't a changelog because different versions were developed by different people. There are some differences in terms of techs, units, resources, civics details. But mostly AND2 has been developed to fix a lot of bugs that were present in previous versions (1.75C included). And yes, it is possible to play without future era, although I have never tried and I don't guarantee that it will run without bugs (that part of the code was already there in AND 1.75C if I'm not mistaken, I haven't changed anything).
I've done a long balancing work because I also didn't like techs being discovered too early/too late. Now it's good enough I think, although mostly I've matched techs/years and not techs/eras (and although tech discovering is very much map-dependant). Vokarya is working now on a new tech tree where techs will be placed in their correct era, there's a thread about it where we're discussing this matter.

@Everyone, from what I've been able to test, AND2 is now by far better, more stable and more bug free than old 1.75C was. I suggest you all try the latest version. Before we start a new development cycle with Vokarya's new tech tree I'll release a "final" AND2.1 version, but current SVN (>623) is pretty much almost everything that will fit in AND2.1.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 26, 2013

Rev624

Ctrl+Alt+O blinking text can be disabled in BUG Options and will be reactivated only when you start a new game and not every time you load a savegame
Glasssmith is now a National Wonder (3 glassware produced, maximum 3 glasssmiths)
Manhattan Project cannot be conquered (will be destroyed if city is conquered), also fixed text incorrectly saying that MP enables nuclear attacks for all players

Kryanni · Mar 30, 2013

Can the current SVN build number# be indicated in the first post for the full installer version?

Actually I'm waiting for the stable build, quite a few bugs seem to be due to moving saves across different builds.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 30, 2013

Kryanni said:
Can the current SVN build number# be indicated in the first post for the full installer version?

Actually I'm waiting for the stable build, quite a few bugs seem to be due to moving saves across different builds.

The full installer linked in the first post is always the most up-to-date, it' always the latest revision, so currently it's 624.

Hopefully I've almost fixed that damned maintenance bug, so rev625 should be ready soon.

Arkatakor · Mar 30, 2013

I am glad to see the ongoing work and activity in this MOD; My current gripe is that I am finding this game too easy, thus I have a request for the next revision. I am assuming its easy to implement and cannot see why anyone would be opposed to this suggestion:

In the HandicapInfo.xml file, would it be possible to add a <iAIResearchPercent> tag? This would enable us to modify the research % that an AI requires for techs - Personally if this could be implemented, it would go a long way in making the difficulty levels more challenging.

45°38'N-13°47'E · Mar 30, 2013

Arkatakor said:
I am glad to see the ongoing work and activity in this MOD; My current gripe is that I am finding this game too easy, thus I have a request for the next revision. I am assuming its easy to implement and cannot see why anyone would be opposed to this suggestion:

In the HandicapInfo.xml file, would it be possible to add a <iAIResearchPercent> tag? This would enable us to modify the research % that an AI requires for techs - Personally if this could be implemented, it would go a long way in making the difficulty levels more challenging.

I know, I've thought about this myself; actually I was wondering why it wasn't done before. I'll give it a try once I'm done with fixing maintenance problems.

Arkatakor · Mar 30, 2013

45°38'N-13°47'E;12326439 said:
I know, I've thought about this myself; actually I was wondering why it wasn't done before. I'll give it a try once I'm done with fixing maintenance problems.

Thank you for this - I would really look forward to having this feature

HotFusion · Mar 30, 2013

Arkatakor said:
I am glad to see the ongoing work and activity in this MOD; My current gripe is that I am finding this game too easy, thus I have a request for the next revision. I am assuming its easy to implement and cannot see why anyone would be opposed to this suggestion:

In the HandicapInfo.xml file, would it be possible to add a <iAIResearchPercent> tag? This would enable us to modify the research % that an AI requires for techs - Personally if this could be implemented, it would go a long way in making the difficulty levels more challenging.

There's a back door way of doing this if you play on levels higher than Noble. The AI receives the Noble handicap list, so you can edit the <ResearchPercent> tag for Noble and it effectively gives a bonus to the AI and the AI only. I've done this before and it definitely works. You can do lots of other stuff too, like give the AI higher innate health and happiness, etc.

Combat Wombat · Mar 31, 2013

On handicaps. Is there a way to let the AI switch civics without an anarchy period?

Arkatakor · Mar 31, 2013

HotFusion said:
There's a back door way of doing this if you play on levels higher than Noble. The AI receives the Noble handicap list, so you can edit the <ResearchPercent> tag for Noble and it effectively gives a bonus to the AI and the AI only. I've done this before and it definitely works. You can do lots of other stuff too, like give the AI higher innate health and happiness, etc.

I simply don't see how this works. I play on a customized HandicapInfo.xml file (see attachment). In that file, my settler difficulty level is equivalent to deity. The idea is I start with settler, then as the game progresses and my score becomes the top score, the difficulty increases. In all the difficulties following settler I have modified iResearchPercent, and the only thing that changes is that my research percentage increases. I have iResearchPercent on 235 on my version of deity and the difference in research in settler and diety research times is huge - one can test this by switching between the difficulty levels in game (thru bug options).

What we really need is a separate tag called <iAIResearchPercent>; for the life of me I can't figure out why it was not in there in the first place.

Combat Wombat said:
On handicaps. Is there a way to let the AI switch civics without an anarchy period?

This would be a great addition on top of iAIResearchPercent, though I imagine that the latter should be far easier to implement as it already exists for the human player.

AND SVN Build Thread

Deity

Deity

Emperor

C2C Map Team

Prince

Deity

Deity

TBS WarLord

Worldly Flower

Chieftain

Deity

Deity

Worldly Flower

Deity

King

Deity

King

Chieftain

Warlord

King

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