Problem with AI not Making Progress in War

G

Gib Clay

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
7
hi!im currently playing my second playthrough with AND2 REV 873.im glad i found this mod,it is nearly as perfect as glorious north korea except the ai.My problem is that the ai factions dont DOW each other too often or if they do they fail to take cities in the war and peace out too quickly.Factions with aggressive trait still DOW quite often but they cant make progress.so what happening is faction A Declare War on faction B,then they send small stacks on each others territory but fail to make progress and then they peace out or continue these meaningless border skirmishes for much longer if they have the aggressive trait.with this behavior i cant get my late game uber nemesis and all the shiny high tech stuff become meaningless :(.
Here are the settings for my current game-
MAP-Earth 15 civ preset huge
Monarch
Epic Speed
Raging Barbarians
Barbarian World
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
No Tech Brokering
Choose Religions
No Vassal States
and a few other that dont matter.
Victory conditions are disabled except Conquest and religious
the game just entered the matchlock era but the romans already have grenadiers and are close to flintlock.Im playing as china owning 30 cities in east asia and are number one civ ,the second are romans(8-9 city) who have the best tech in game and could beat their neighbours who they hate but they dont DOW them.in africa and america shaka and montezuma are constantly at war with some of their neighbours but they cant make progress.seems like i cant get my late game superblob ai as my opponent.

I also did some testing on Deity+Blitz+no vassals+Agressive AI to see how the ai perform.i run that test to 250 turn industrial era.the strongest ai factions barely managed to capture 1-2 cities from their opponents and not much blobbing happened.
any suggestions to increase ai agressivness and blobbing?should i use ruthless ai instead of aggressive ai or use them both?does the mentioned ai behaviors normal or i have some kind of bug?halp!
 
Gib Clay said:
hi!im currently playing my second playthrough with AND2 REV 873.im glad i found this mod,it is nearly as perfect as glorious north korea except the ai.My problem is that the ai factions dont DOW each other too often or if they do they fail to take cities in the war and peace out too quickly.Factions with aggressive trait still DOW quite often but they cant make progress.so what happening is faction A Declare War on faction B,then they send small stacks on each others territory but fail to make progress and then they peace out or continue these meaningless border skirmishes for much longer if they have the aggressive trait.with this behavior i cant get my late game uber nemesis and all the shiny high tech stuff become meaningless :(.
Here are the settings for my current game-
MAP-Earth 15 civ preset huge
Monarch
Epic Speed
Raging Barbarians
Barbarian World
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
No Tech Brokering
Choose Religions
No Vassal States
and a few other that dont matter.
Victory conditions are disabled except Conquest and religious
the game just entered the matchlock era but the romans already have grenadiers and are close to flintlock.Im playing as china owning 30 cities in east asia and are number one civ ,the second are romans(8-9 city) who have the best tech in game and could beat their neighbours who they hate but they dont DOW them.in africa and america shaka and montezuma are constantly at war with some of their neighbours but they cant make progress.seems like i cant get my late game superblob ai as my opponent.

I also did some testing on Deity+Blitz+no vassals+Agressive AI to see how the ai perform.i run that test to 250 turn industrial era.the strongest ai factions barely managed to capture 1-2 cities from their opponents and not much blobbing happened.
any suggestions to increase ai agressivness and blobbing?should i use ruthless ai instead of aggressive ai or use them both?does the mentioned ai behaviors normal or i have some kind of bug?halp!
Click to expand...

Try using Flexible AI difficulty and Flexible Difficulty, 10 turns difficulty check. Start at Noble, the game will change difficulty for you and AI according to how you perform. It should be more challenging. I'm not sure it will change how AI behaves in war time, but I suggest you try. Game should be more balanced now so probably AI is having a harder time at making war to other AI which more or less should have the same strenght.
 
tx.is it safe to change game settings in mid game using the BUG?does using Aggressive AI and Ruthless AI at the same time make AI factions more aggressive than using only one of those options?
 
Gib Clay said:
tx.is it safe to change game settings in mid game using the BUG?does using Aggressive AI and Ruthless AI at the same time make AI factions more aggressive than using only one of those options?
Click to expand...

Sure you can change BUG options in mid game, but best effect is if you start with those options. IIRC ruthless AI includes and overrules Aggressive AI.
 
@45 Nah, I am using those options in my current game and the AI is still fighting their stupid little 10 turn wars. My current game has 5-10 wars running continuously throughout this game and maybe one city will change hands in 100 turns.
 
AI doesn't always fight a war to capture cities. Sometimes it does to pillage enemy's territory. Or to hurt opponent's economy. Or to wear out their army.
In my experience in the game most wars go on like that until AI is strong enough for a real war and then it usually doesn't stop.
 
I've had a few wars in my game currently. Some haven't seen any real outcome, and Willem has been at war with Boudica for like.... Centuries. Neither country has so much as landed forces on each other's continent yet, but neither will sign peace either :lol:

Boudica's declared on me twice. First time saw little outcome other than her losing a colony on my continent in former Assyirian territory, but she did try and land some units on my soil. Most transports just got sunk en route though. She declared again much later (Again, unprovoked) and I took and razed one of her cities then made peace.

Monty's been declaring on some people as per usual, then Bismark went and declared on him - retaking a city he lost previously and each razed a city of the other's before making peace.


Some of the leaders had been making good progress in their respective wars, Monty having taken out all of France on his own, others just seem content with border conflicts or just slowing people down - as 45 suggested. No clue what's up with Boudica's war with the Dutch though.
 
im not sure that the 10 turn wars are a good or a bad thing.it makes the game more realistic because most wars in history wasnt total wars but also hurt AI expansion.while the human player constantly expanding the AI wasting its resources in these small scale wars and they rarely gain anything from it.I come from the FFH2 Better Naval Mod where the ai is really agressive and by the end game one ai conquered half the map but in AND2 it is the human player who does most of the conquering.i my current game i own like 60-70 cities while the second strongest have only 11-14.maybe the agressive AI option should increase the ai threshold for accepting peace.
Is the naval AI any good in this mod?im asking it because Caesar DOWd egypt several times but didnt shipped troops through the mediterranean sea and peaced out some 20 turns later.they could crush egypt with a small army because the tech difference is so big.anyway can i increase Tech diffusion somehow so that small AI nations can keep up somewhat?
 
What revision are you using? Lately I've had several games where it was the AI running away with the game and I was strugglign to keep up - like right now, most of the AI are ahead of me, many of them keep pullling ahead in Power - sometimes dangerously so - and several have launched naval attacks off-continent (Although only two have actually done so successfully. Most of the time they just got killed a turn or two after landing.)

Boudica in question sent an absolutely scary amount of units towards me - 30 land units in one turn, with more on their way - and she WOULD have done a lot of damage if they had landed. I sunk most of the transports, and made peace before the rest arrived.

This was quite a few turns after our (second) war, but it does show that the AI are doing well enough while I'm trying to keep up. If it wasn't for me sending spies overseas to steal techs when possible, I'd be half an era behind at this point (Then again, most of the AIs are clustered on the same continent. That's probably helping them quite a bit.) and Monty's already taken out two civilizations on his own!
View attachment 389460


Yes, sometimes the AI does kind of flop in these sorts of things, but that doesn't mean they always do. It also somewhat depends on the settings you pick (Realistic Timescale, Flexibile Difficulty, Great Commanders for an IWIN feature for you, etc) so try mixing those around a bit :)

Realistic Timescale might help a lot, since it helps techs along if they're behind time-wise. Meaning if you're starting to get close to AD years, Ancient and Classic techs will get much cheaper since you *should* have had them long ago. Just as an example ^^
 
im using REV 873.
my settings are-
MAP-Earth 15 civ preset huge
Monarch
Epic Speed
Raging Barbarians
Barbarian World
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
No Tech Brokering
Choose Religions
No Vassal States
im ruling all of asia and eyeing yurop.the year is 910 ad but Rome and I are already industrializing.
does tech diffusion effect is greater if a backward country borders or are close to a tech leader?does realistic timescale gives a research penalty if you research ahead of time?
what settings are you using?sorry for bombing you with questions lel
 
I can already tell Hammurabi's attack on Celtia is not going to end well for him at all :lol:
I know where he is on the tech tree. His troops are going to die the moment they land.
View attachment 389462

A galleon and two galleys... I can't see what's on them (Did they remove that in Warlords/BTS or something?) but Debug Mode claims they're on an assault to the tile south of Nemetoccna and are loaded with troops. Nice that my Vassal wants to help with this war, but this isn't going to do much :lol:
Yeah, and Boudica just finished Rifling a few turns ago. I can't even see Rifling yet :B

Gib Clay said:
im using REV 873.
my settings are-
MAP-Earth 15 civ preset huge
Monarch
Epic Speed
Raging Barbarians
Barbarian World
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
No Tech Brokering
Choose Religions
No Vassal States
im ruling all of asia and eyeing yurop.the year is 910 ad but Rome and I are already industrializing.
does tech diffusion effect is greater if a backward country borders or are close to a tech leader?does realistic timescale gives a research penalty if you research ahead of time?
what settings are you using?sorry for bombing you with questions lel
Click to expand...

My Game Options are:
Monarch Difficulty (Flexibile Difficulty pushed me up to Immortal though)
Totestra / Standard / Normal Speed

Raging Barbarians (lol)
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
Permanent Alliances
No Barbarian Civs
Revolutions (This almost always increases difficulty. Don't take it lightly)
Multiple Production
Multiple Research
Advanced Diplomacy
Unlimited Wonders (I missed EVERY SINGLE RELIGION and the bulk of the World Wonders. Fat use this did me :B)
Assimilation
Realistic Culture Spread
Religion Decay
Advanced Espionage
Expanded Cities
Civic Buildings (So why is this an option, again?)
Early Buildings
Modern Corps
No Fixed Borders


BUG Settings:
-Realistic Diplomacy
-Flex.Difficulty for both Player and AI (Every ten turns)
-Max 20 Units per Tile
-War Prizes
-Dynamic EXP


I put four extra AI into the map than is default, and most of them started on the same continent (Not mine), so they teched pretty fast due to the sharing Open Borders compared to my mostly isolated start.
 
Gib Clay said:
im using REV 873.
my settings are-
MAP-Earth 15 civ preset huge
Monarch
Epic Speed
Raging Barbarians
Barbarian World
Aggressive AI
No Tech Trading
No Tech Brokering
Choose Religions
No Vassal States
im ruling all of asia and eyeing yurop.the year is 910 ad but Rome and I are already industrializing.
does tech diffusion effect is greater if a backward country borders or are close to a tech leader?does realistic timescale gives a research penalty if you research ahead of time?
what settings are you using?sorry for bombing you with questions lel
Click to expand...

Choose religion is not an option since October last year so I wonder how you still have it. That said, playing on Earth maps is a bit different because civs are not evenly spread. And yes, tech diffusion should work like that and yes, you get penalties for researching too much ahead of time with realistic timescale.
 
Ya know, one thing probably keeping the AI from doing much in their wars is the fact that any AI that has Protective as a trait WILL be massing large numbers of Drill IV / City Garrison I/II units in every city. Very, very, very large numbers of them. I painfully remember how terrible I fared in wars against these AIs - throwing NINETEEN Artillery against eight Drill IV units, and not knocking them even down to half health - they'd still be getting 90% odds against my units, and they'd heal up in 2 ~ 3 turns and then more units will come rushing in - also all Drill IV.

The AI's already bad at standard warfare, the Drill I / CG I promotions on Protective already stalled the AI pretty badly and while Better AI does hepl, the many Drill IV's that the Protective AI get due to the extra Drill promotions that Trait was given.... Well, it can't be anything short of absolutely painful. The large reduction on collateral damage makes siege weapons prior to Bombers almost useless, and it takes little effort for the AI to get Drill IV / CG II units out of the gate just because of the new and "improved" Protective trait.
 
I agree, that's one of the xml changes that I make before starting a new game is to increase the bombard accuracy and damage to land and sea bombard units. 25 capitol ships bombard and only one hits with NO damage. BULL....!
 
oldnooob said:
I agree, that's one of the xml changes that I make before starting a new game is to increase the bombard accuracy and damage to land and sea bombard units. 25 capitol ships bombard and only one hits with NO damage. BULL....!
Click to expand...

I've found that promoting siege weapons with City Raider and unit-countering promotions instead of the Barrage promotion helps them actually do damage to Drill IV superunits, but even then the sheer number of siege weapons thrown away just to knock 7 grenadiers from 22 to 18 while leaving the other 13 ~ 20 untouched is... Horrifying. It's pretty easy for the AI to flood their lands with Drill IV units it seems, so no wonder the AIs aren't making much progress with their wars.

Honestly, I realize Protective was always the "dud" of the Leader Traits, but giving it an extra Drill promotion for free.... I'm not fully sure that was for the best.


As for naval bombardment, I'm not convinced that feature does anything at all by default. Nine ships can all hit and it won't do anything - the AI loves bombarding with ships instead of actually attacking, which doesn't do much for them.
 
it seems like that i was actually running REV 806 even though the launcher showed that it is REV 873.somehow when i updated the mod using the checker it didnt really updated it.After i fixed the installation using ''reset mod to original state'' my mod become up to date.
I ran some tests to check the AI and it seems that it doing ok now.the settings were Hemispheres+Huge+Deity+Blitz+No Vassals+Ruthless AI.by turn 250 some AI managed to take 2-3 city.Protective seems extremely op,it was good even when it only gave garrison I.
Also my new version seems to take 1-2 sec longer when i hit end turn.
 
Gib Clay said:
it seems like that i was actually running REV 806 even though the launcher showed that it is REV 873.somehow when i updated the mod using the checker it didnt really updated it.After i fixed the installation using ''reset mod to original state'' my mod become up to date.
I ran some tests to check the AI and it seems that it doing ok now.the settings were Hemispheres+Huge+Deity+Blitz+No Vassals+Ruthless AI.by turn 250 some AI managed to take 2-3 city.Protective seems extremely op,it was good even when it only gave garrison I.
Also my new version seems to take 1-2 sec longer when i hit end turn.
Click to expand...

Production is always going to be insanely fast on Blitz. It's kind of the point of Blitz actually :king:
If ye think it's overpowered, try Normal or Epic.


Turn times can be sped up nicely if you enable Minimize AI Turns in the BUG Options :)
 
Production is always going to be insanely fast on Blitz. It's kind of the point of Blitz actually
If ye think it's overpowered, try Normal or Epic.


Turn times can be sped up nicely if you enable Minimize AI Turns in the BUG Options
Click to expand...

i was talking about protective trait not production XD.i test stuff out on blitz but my real games are on epic.im using the minimize ai turns but in the industrial era turns start to take like 10-12 seconds in huge maps.
 
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