Can you combat "They covet lands you own"?

I was watching a deity playthrough on YouTube (Berg787) and I noticed that he was able to allay a rival AI's anger from "They covet lands you currently own" by trading a lux resource to them. At least, that's what it seemed like happened (ie the negative diplo modifier went away after he traded the lux resource to them).

Is this an accurate representation of what happened? Are luxury resources one of the reasons for a rival to "covet lands you currently own"? If so, is trading the lux resource to them a viable way to remove the negative diplo modifier or was Berg787 just lucky in that the AI stopped coveting the same turn?

Additionally, have you guys experienced other ways of allaying the "They covet lands you currently own" diplo modifier (other than going to war and destroying them)?

Did he trade the luxury to them, or give it to them for free?

zxcvbob said:

Did he trade the luxury to them, or give it to them for free?

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He traded it for gold per turn iirc

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I don't think much detail is know about that covet warning. For example, is it more likely to spawn if an AI city needs one of your luxes for WLTKD? If so, then trading the lux (for full value even) would be expected to make the covet warning disappear. But how could one test such a theory?

In my experience, the covet warning is highly correlated with a DOW, so I don’t ignore it! The way I usually allay it is to bribe the AI into a war (or, more likely, bribing a third AI to DOW the AI that covets my land).

beetle said:

I don't think much detail is know about that covet warning. For example, is it more likely to spawn if an AI city needs one of your luxes for WLTKD? If so, then trading the lux (for full value even) would be expected to make the covet warning disappear. But how could one test such a theory?

In my experience, the covet warning is highly correlated with a DOW, so I don’t ignore it! The way I usually allay it is to bribe the AI into a war (or, more likely, bribing a third AI to DOW the AI that covets my land).

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Yeah that's how I've been solving it. Or just going with the old "a good offense is the best defense" methodology. My interest was piqued when I saw Berg787 trade the lux resource to solve it. He actively did it too as in he was talking about trading the lux resource to get rid of the negative diplo modifier and it worked. It's too bad not more is known about the coveting land modifier as it does seem to have a significant impact on the game.

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I should add that I routinely check to make sure a covetous neighbor has my lux, even if they will only pay 3 gpt for it. I want them to take a happy hit for the DOW. I don’t feel like the habbit helps much.

blitzkrieg, I do think that the "covet lands" diplo hit is related to desiring specific luxuries that are near him but he can't get. So if you trade those luxes to that civ, I do believe they will be less likely to covet your lands.

beetle said:

I should add that I routinely check to make sure a covetous neighbor has my lux, even if they will only pay 3 gpt for it. I want them to take a happy hit for the DOW. I don’t feel like the habbit helps much.

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I also do this. If I feel a DOW coming on from an AI neighbor I will try to enter into as many trade agreements as I can with them. Iron, Horses, Luxes, trade routes etc. My feeling is that if we are good trading partners they won't declare war and if they do...the sudden loss of all the crap I traded them will hurt. IE if I trade them 5 horses, they build 2 extra horse units then declare war...now all their horse units are -20% strength because they are at -2 horses right? Yay weaker units to slaughter!

I will however admit that this strategy has had limited success. All it really seems to do is delay the AI from declaring war on me a few turns. Eventually they still declare war on you I think.

fyar said:

blitzkrieg, I do think that the "covet lands" diplo hit is related to desiring specific luxuries that are near him but he can't get. So if you trade those luxes to that civ, I do believe they will be less likely to covet your lands.

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Oh okay that's great! I will use this in my next game where I see that Diplo modifier. In the current game I have I already wiped that guy off the map LOL. But Emperor level just seems way too easy so it may be more necessary when I move to immortal. Thanks again.

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I hadn't thought about trades, at least the possibility of them, and that showing the luxuries I have available.

Before I mainly thought, when I encountered another civ for the first time with a scout, "You idiot, you haven't even seen my lands, but you still covet them?"

Actually I put it down to them coveting everything, like Shaka.

blitzkrieg1980 said:

Oh okay that's great! I will use this in my next game where I see that Diplo modifier. In the current game I have I already wiped that guy off the map LOL. But Emperor level just seems way too easy so it may be more necessary when I move to immortal. Thanks again.

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FYI, before you go out taking my word as gospel, I should emphasize the words "I think". I do not have the proof (i.e., from going through the code / xml files), nor even sufficient empirical evidence. This is just going from experience, in that the more I trade with another empire, it seems the less likely I am to see those red modifiers, and seemingly the less likely a surprise DoW. And the playthrough that you watched would also seem to point towards this notion. But it's by no means a guarantee that they will not DoW you. Maybe somebody who pokes around more in the xml files and/or who plays with the mod that shows the strength of the diplo modifiers can verify?

fyar said:

FYI, before you go out taking my word as gospel, I should emphasize the words "I think". I do not have the proof (i.e., from going through the code / xml files), nor even sufficient empirical evidence. This is just going from experience, in that the more I trade with another empire, it seems the less likely I am to see those red modifiers, and seemingly the less likely a surprise DoW. And the playthrough that you watched would also seem to point towards this notion. But it's by no means a guarantee that they will not DoW you. Maybe somebody who pokes around more in the xml files and/or who plays with the mod that shows the strength of the diplo modifiers can verify?

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I appreciate the clarification. I'm less worried about a declaration of war and more concerned with managing diplomacy for the sake of research agreements, fair trade deals etc. When it comes to war, I tend to have enough to repel invaders and possibly grab one of their cities too. From my experience in games (and keep in mind I'm still playing at Emperor although I'm moving up to Immortal next game), the covet land diplo modifier is a minor one. I mean, the darker faded looking modifiers are more minor than the brightly colored ones, right? So if other diplo modifiers have been kept solidly green, a DoW is less likely, right? Either way, I generally keep a decent sized standing army.

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