SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

mabraham · Apr 11, 2011

Ronnie1 said:
I am fine with letting BF use both fish and grow, but I would then get the second WB for PC from SM or PC, but immediately follow that build with a Trireme build that can be 1 pop whipped with 30+/75 before T150 when we are pretty sure barb galleys will show up.

OK, SM is the candidate for that. On T137 we can start a trireme and whip it on T144. FH is already producing a trireme on T143 (and it could scout west of the three-tile island on T145 to find the magic two seafood, before we commit where the settler goes, so there's no need to delay the marble quarry by scouting those tiles early).

So we now have two triremes planned for the relevant window. One lurks around PC and the other lurks around MC (but in range for guarding CC). Depending how things play out, they might scout a little bit. We still might need to scramble a workboat in MC or PC as a decoy some time.

We will need to plan for more triremes, because once we get some XP on a trireme, we should send it exploring and hope it gets to level 4.

Grifftavian · Apr 11, 2011

Somewhere along the line I missed what we are going to call this new city. I like Fur Island, but am I to presume CF = Crabby Furs has been decided on?

I prefer Furry Crabs personally.

Sure, that's fine.

Furry Crab is good. Fur Island is good. Founder's prerogative, as far as I'm concerned.

:crazyeye:

30 new posts from overnight to read this morning! :goodjob:

bcool · Apr 11, 2011

I appreciate aj's attempts to list people's positions on his PPP. I think we need to summarize the current positions based on the latest posts, but if we can't agree we must let aj decide among the various options.

Much of the arguments come from risks from barbarians. If he sees a barbarian galley, he has agreed to pause and we get to revisit all of these issues.

I think we are all agreed we want to risk Eiffel to somehow scout somewhere on Furry Crab's island before the settler. Which way aj does that I'm willing to leave in aj's hands after all the feedback.

Scouting around the 3 tile island has been debated, I would like to hear what aj thinks on that issue.

Scouting with a workboat from SM around PC is largely an issue for the next turn set. I think it makes sense to net the clams to the west of PC regardless of what we decide here since the nets to the west are significantly less vulnerable to a barbarian galley. The nets to the west could be saved by a whipped workboat lure for example whereas it might not be possible to save the nets to the east.

I think the research and tech trading issue has been resolved. We try to put 1 turn on hunting and then trade phood for hunting if possible. What to do after that if it doesn't work is a little less clear, but I think it makes sense to go for aesthetics rather than invest more into hunting that we could trade for ~T142. (assuming we can get alphabet with aesthetics --knock on wood)

Grifftavian · Apr 11, 2011

bcool said:
...

Scouting with a workboat from SM around PC is largely an issue for the next turn set. I think it makes sense to net the clams to the west of PC regardless of what we decide here since the nets to the west are significantly less vulnerable to a barbarian galley. The nets to the west could be saved by a whipped workboat lure for example whereas it might not be possible to save the nets to the east.

I agree; I think netting the western Clams first is the safer option!

bcool said:
I think the research and tech trading issue has been resolved. We try to put 1 turn on hunting and then trade phood for hunting if possible. What to do after that if it doesn't work is a little less clear, but I think it makes sense to go for aesthetics rather than invest more into hunting that we could trade for ~T142. (assuming we can get alphabet with aesthetics --knock on wood)

I agree with this as well.

Ronnie1 · Apr 11, 2011

I agree as well.

adrianj · Apr 11, 2011

Excellent.
I hopefully have time to play this evening (~10 hours from now).
I'll ammend the PPP to indicate which options I will go for.

Edit - I noticed someone (bcool I think) managed to write posts with strikethrough text. How do I do this?

bcool · Apr 11, 2011

you have to manually type in bracket s bracket and "[/s]" at the beginning and end of the text you want to strikethrough. Obviously using real brackets rather than writing out bracket.

mabraham · Apr 11, 2011

I'm happy, let's do it.

mabraham · Apr 11, 2011

Grifftavian said:
Furry Crab is good. Fur Island is good. Founder's prerogative, as far as I'm concerned.

Sure. There's something to be said for avoiding abbreviations that are used for other stuff - Marbled Clam and Metal Casting was a bit unfortunate. Definitely avoid CS! However any of FC, CF, FI seem fine.

adrianj · Apr 12, 2011

I'll be playing in 20 minutes. Join me on MSN Messenger if you want the live feed.

adrianj · Apr 12, 2011

Well... that was rather short :sad:

I played 1 turn, and have paused my turnset mid T129- a barb galley has appeared 1SW of Marbled Clam.

So far, Willem refused to trade Hunting to us, even though we have more than 2/3rds finished it.
We have certainly achieved circumnavigation, so from next turn will have 3 move boats.

Now, about this Barb galley. It will most likely nom Willem's workboat, unless Willem evades - I don't think Willem will actually have visibility of the barb so could potentially sail straight into it. There is also the possibility that Willem has had this galley tailing him since before we even met him! :mad:

I guess there is a possibility that the barb will chase Willem's WB, in which case our nets are safe *unless* Willem hides in one of our cities, which is the smartest move for him.

If we don't deal with the threat, then in two turns from now the barb will be on one of CC's nets. My plan is to immediately switch CC to build a trireme, and 2 pop whip it next turn (overflow into library). Ideally I would park the trireme on CC's nets and kill the barb galley on the defensive, but this may not be possible if the barb has already ended its turn on the nets. In which case I attack: I don't know the odds off-hand but they are pretty high, though less than 90% I think.

Autolog of the turn-and-a-half

Spoiler :

mabraham · Apr 12, 2011

adrianj said:
Well... that was rather short

I played 1 turn, and have paused my turnset mid T129- a barb galley has appeared 1SW of Marbled Clam.

Dude.... be more lucky! :lol:

adrianj said:
So far, Willem refused to trade Hunting to us, even though we have more than 2/3rds finished it.
We have certainly achieved circumnavigation, so from next turn will have 3 move boats.

Well at least something went right.

adrianj said:
Now, about this Barb galley. It will most likely nom Willem's workboat, unless Willem evades - I don't think Willem will actually have visibility of the barb so could potentially sail straight into it. There is also the possibility that Willem has had this galley tailing him since before we even met him! I guess there is a possibility that the barb will chase Willem's WB, in which case our nets are safe *unless* Willem hides in one of our cities, which is the smartest move for him.

Willem came from NW of MC, so Willem does not even have visibility on galley's tile yet, and the galley was not tailing him.

He will likely continue SW and into our city, or S and perhaps get killed somewhere.

In a worldbuilder test, Joao ran NW with the workboat, never seeing the galley, and the galley went 2N, 2S and off into the wilderness SE. I thought perhaps the 2N move was motivated by occupying our seafood tile, but when I worldbuildered it out and put one 2E of the galley, he still went 2N.

adrianj said:
If we don't deal with the threat, then in two turns from now the barb will be on one of CC's nets. My plan is to immediately switch CC to build a trireme, and 2 pop whip it next turn (overflow into library). Ideally I would park the trireme on CC's nets and kill the barb galley on the defensive, but this may not be possible if the barb has already ended its turn on the nets. In which case I attack: I don't know the odds off-hand but they are pretty high, though less than 90% I think.

Yep, switch to a trireme right now, and plan to whip it soon. If the barb goes 2N, then a T130 whip will let you take up a defensive position on T131. If the barb beelines the clam, then you'll have to take him on offense (88%). However even 60% odds on offense with a 75 :hammers:

-trireme breaks even with a 100% chance to lose a 45 :hammers:

-workboat, and the value of the lost turns of 2 :food:

pushes the required odds even lower than that!

If the barb does something exotic, then perhaps put a second turn on the trireme (so we stay at size 5 a bit longer) and then whip it.

bcool · Apr 12, 2011

Bummer about hunting

I agree that we whip a trireme in CC T130.

One issue is that I think the galley will be 4 away from the barb galley on T131, so if the worst happens and the trireme is lost in an attack on the barb galley, the galley won't be ready for the finishing blow. I think we still hit the barbarian galley with the trireme even if we can't hit it immediately with the galley.

Hopefully it won't make a beeline for CC and we will have time to organize both the trireme and the galley, and possibly the using the trireme for a defensive battle with the barb galley.

I think we switch to aesthetics and hopefully trade for everything we need by ~T142 and gain access to fur finally with the delayed settling of Fur city.

The settler in CC is pushed back to T139 and the Library is T142 I think in CC.

The trireme whip in FH might not be the best thing to do now...

But here is a rough plan for CC with the trireme whip

edit: hold off the whip if the barb galley does do something exotic makes sense.

mabraham · Apr 12, 2011

mabraham said:
Yep, switch to a trireme right now, and plan to whip it soon. If the barb goes 2N, then a T130 whip will let you take up a defensive position on T131. If the barb beelines the clam, then you'll have to take him on offense (88%). However even 60% odds on offense with a 75-trireme breaks even with a 100% chance to lose a 45-workboat, and the value of the lost turns of 2 pushes the required odds even lower than that!

Ouch. I got out the spreadsheet. That whip is going to hurt a lot of stuff.

mabraham · Apr 12, 2011

bcool said:
Bummer about hunting

I agree that we whip a trireme in CC T130.

One issue is that I think the galley will be 4 away from the barb galley on T131, so if the worst happens and the trireme is lost in an attack on the barb galley, the galley won't be ready for the finishing blow. I think we still hit the barbarian galley with the trireme even if we can't hit it immediately with the galley.

Hopefully it won't make a beeline for CC and we will have time to organize both the trireme and the galley, and possibly the using the trireme for a defensive battle with the barb galley.

I think we switch to aesthetics and hopefully trade for everything we need by ~T142 and gain access to fur finally with the delayed settling of Fur city.

The settler in CC is pushed back to T139 and the Library is T142 I think in CC.

The trireme whip in FH might not be the best thing to do now...

But here is a rough plan for CC with the trireme whip

edit: hold off the whip if the barb galley does do something exotic makes sense.

I'd agree with rough tile plan, except that T133 CC is said to be working the Pmine, when if FH is unchanged, it will be doing so. I think T133 CC should work Gmine.

I played around with switching nets over to FH and producing the settler later, but I didn't see any striking value to it.

adrianj · Apr 12, 2011

Ok, I whipped the trireme, and carried on out to T138. I made a slight error in that I forgot to change research back to Aesthetics, but managed to trade for Hunting on T130.

The MM of CC and FH I pretty much played by ear, choosing to work the best tiles wherever possible.

Autolog

Spoiler :

Turn log

Spoiler :

Sorry, I don't have time right now to post more screenshots or provide discussion. Goodnight all

mabraham · Apr 12, 2011

Any chance of a saved game upload?

Edit: Ah you did. Here's a link.

:lol:

I was originally horrified that we nearly lost the trireme according to the detailed combat log, and that you planned to take it scouting straight away. Then I load up the game and it's uninjured... of course, in the first combat against barbarians you cannot take damage!

adrianj · Apr 12, 2011

mabraham said:
Any chance of a saved game upload?

Edit: Ah you did. Here's a link.

I was originally horrified that we nearly lost the trireme according to the detailed combat log, and that you planned to take it scouting straight away. Then I load up the game and it's uninjured... of course, in the first combat against barbarians you cannot take damage!

No. It was very injured. It healed in cc before scouting. The free wins bs barbs doesn't apply to this difficulty level

Grifftavian · Apr 12, 2011

Nice turn set, aj! Good job taking care of the Barb galley, and getting the first war ship for our Navy!! :hatsoff:

They Eye in the Sky has spotted light purple territory :viking:

to the SW of Marbled Clam, and SE of the Dutch territory! See attached screen shot!!!!

bcool · Apr 12, 2011

Nice handling of the barb galley aj!

In worse news Willem has researched Aesthetics. We need to revisit our tech plans. The plan to not trade Metal Casting doesn't look like it has worked out for us.

I'm a little sad that the lighthouse in PC was whipped. But the outcomes with whipping and not-whipping were very similar.

We have crabs near the 3 tile island. Nothing exciting revealed there that would convince us to settle there.

If Willem and Catherine continue to be friends the tech pace of this game is going to be quite high. I think the high tech war is getting more likely. Unless we want to try and take out Willem asap. He is ruining all of our nicely laid out plans :aargh:

Not sure if we could take him out early, but at least he is close. Maybe we get Nationalism earlish and take him out with drafted macemen before he can get longbows?

Nice catch Griff. Not Germany then but the Vikings are among us.

SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Attachments

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Similar threads