European ethno-linguistic assimilation

Often I find myself wishing everyone just take France's cue and not bother with classifying people by ethnicity or religion.

A lot of people will lose jobs when we stop counting ethnicity or religion. Imagine all these jobless statisticians and public servants. :)

Are there not good enough demographic estimates of that era

I have some maps for the 1400s and the 1500s too, somewhere. Later I will search for them.

BTW west of the Oder River too, very large areas were still primarily Slavic-speaking during the 1500s - early 1600s.

Among the kinds of evidence which testify about continued use of Slavic language is the continued use of Slavic given names.

These Slavic given names are of course distorted in documents by German clerks who recorded them, for example:

Examples of Slavic given names (testifying to continued use of Slavic language) from Mecklenburg-Vorpommern from the 15th - 17th centuries:

Bartke (Bartek), Stouicke (Stawik), Bardißke (Bartosz), Letke (Letak), Dusiug (Duszyk), Kroll (Król), Glemmeke (Glinka), Cyppute (Szelest), Pentmyl (Pętomił), Loske (Liszka), Sentke (Zętek), Glaueke (Gławik), Jenderan (Henryk-Jan), Podeyne (Potajny), Gotke, Promoysel (Przemysł), Pestrych (Pstrych), Breseke (Brzóska), Darinck (Dar), Draffanicke (Drewnik), Glafvatze (Głowacz), Guowst (Chwost), Haban, Hanyske (Mały Jan), Jesker (Iskra), Karuak (Garbak), Bantze (Panicz) i Ventzan (Węcan), Klackun, Kowucke (Kawka), Labbuen (Luboń), Luschen (Łysek), Maneke (Manik/Człowieczek), Myleke (Miłek), Mowseke (Myszek), Prettun (Przesieka), Proske (Proszko), Rymmatze (Rębacz), Rybe (Ryba), Rubeke (Rybak), Rutzeke (Rostek ), Seueke (Żywik), Szedelke (Sedełko), Szibelike (Siwulik), Tzamme (Samo), Tzygen (Cygan), Wyseke (Wyszek), Guthan (Godny), Liste (Liść), Ribeke (Rybak), Zentke (Zętek), Santke (Świątek), Janeke (Janik), Krull (Król), Mankatz (Miękacz), Preen (Przem), Pantzk (Paniczyk), Schure (Szczur/Chomik), Symeke (Szymek), Vrile (Wrył), Glemmeke (Glinka), Janeke (Janik), Jastram (Jastrząb), Jessel (Jesion), Milatze (Miłacz), Pandeke (Pątnik), Tetze (Teczo), Bannita (Panika), Germatze (Jarmacza), Ploisa (Błożo), Podeya (Budeja), Jezeke (Jeżyk), Phaske (Waszek), Screptze (Skrabek), Jolp (Chłop), Sloyss (Śliż), Crafake (Garbacz), Kupisz (Kuba), Moltke (Młotek), Pusterit (Ciemny), Balyke (Balik), Pollen (Boleń), Ginap (Henryczek), Lobeke (Lubik), Techan (Ciechan), Tzart (Czart), Brassche, Jatzebuk, Kouchel, Marseel, Pixleff, Pulße, Tzentke, Vrassch, Woppoyseke, etc.

Similar distortion of names is also in Latin-language and German-language sources recording Polish names, for example Ozstash (Ostasz), Mogcone (Mojek), Bresdreu (Brzezdrew), Stupote (Stępota), etc.

Of course those names above are mostly names of Slavic commoners.

Pagan Slavic nobility in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern had usually more "noble-sounding" names like Wolimir, Jaromir, Śmiłosław, Przybysław, Welisław, etc.

Even in the 18th century some people could still be speaking Slavic in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, examples:

Morian from Ziethen, Robrahn from Pogez, Buslaff Karen, Hans Wys, Jakob Wys, Johan Franik, Martin Wirik, Heinrich Boye, Jakob Smock, Hans Kuur, Peter Bölick, Fr. Thomesk, Hans Wendt, Chrystian Wendt, Walentin Wendt, Andreas Wendt - those people were descendants of Slavs, but did they still speak Slavic?

Examples of Slavic names from Poel island near Wismar from the 14th - 16th centuries:

Boye, Gollwitz, Techan, Hinze son of Techan, Jakub Tesseke, * Mikołaj Slavus, Markward Wend, Martin Knese, Jan Buk

* "1326 - Nicolaus Slavus hat 2 Hufen in Niendorf, 1329 - Markward Went hat 1 Hufe in Vorwerk"

Some other examples of Slavs with Non-Slavic names but nicknames indicating their Slavicness:

- Gerd Wend from Wismar (who bought a plot of urban land in Wismar in 1294)
- Heinrich Slavus (who bought a house in the city of Rostock in the 1290s)

Etc., etc.

Examples of Slavic people and Germanized people of Slavic descent from 16th to 17th centuries from Usedom:

Mileszko de Usedom, Wentzek (Węcek) de Usedom, Chim Radwan, Jakob Tesch, Martin Radesz, Joachim Tesch, Jacob Suhr, Jochim Loyse, Hans Krulle, Boldiahn (Bielan), Loyße (Liszka), Peter Rumick, Hans Rääs, Siritz Koos, Peter Wyß, Kores Wüs, Sverin Resch, Martin Rääs (surnames from Slavic verb "rezać", to cut), Jacob Such (Żuk), Marten Wys (Wysz), Jacom Laban (Luboń), Hans Knesem (Knęzik), Marten Suck (Żuk), Petter Bugislaff, Michael Koos, Jacom May, Martin Janik, Michel Binik, Gottfried Wilik, Michael Masch (Masz - short for Tomasz), Peter Radz, Jochom Menik, Jacob Golas, Hans Golas, Michael Barnhey (Bortaj) and Hindrik Barnhey (Bortaj).

17th and 18th century marriages from Benz, Usedom, reveal a lot of surnames of Slavic origin, for example:

Tönies Puntzke + Maria Schmied (1646), Jochim Wend + Ilse Labehn and Michel Pansche + Engel Timmecke (1651), Thies Kucke + Engel Labehn (1653) and Peter Krull + Barbe Wilcken (1680), Michel Wend + Trina (1671), Jacob Kreßmer + Sophia Knust (1676), Tiesa Kercke + Emmerentz Fincke (1683) and Michel Janße + Ilse Stromberg (1703). Zabel Kutze + Maria Schmed (1681), Jacob Utesse + Ilse Kusenow (1686), Niclas Stancke + Marentz Rese (1699), Jochena Jancke + Maria Riemer (1702).

Note that, in the Holy Roman Empire's context:

1) Slavic given (first) name means that a person's parents most probably still spoke Slavic or at least were aware of their Slavic ancestry and traditions;
2) Slavic surname (surnames became common in eastern HRE late, only in the Early Modern Era) means that family still spoke Slavic when it was given

=====================

According to Danish documents from 1231, the island of Fehmarn had at that time 16 exclusively Slavic and several more mixed Slavic-Germanic settlements.

Many Slavs started collaborating with conquerors and remained in charge after the conuest of the island of Ruegen.

=====================

Princes of Ruegen in period 1170 - 1303 surrounded themselves by mostly Slavic courtiers, officials/clerks and advisors:

Witomir, Stanek, Popiel, Cieszymir, Dobiesław, Unimysł, Bornuta, Dobrosław, Striżebor, Tęgomir, Tomasz Sulistrzyc, Radosław, Stoisław, Gościsław, Marcin, Jaczo, Przybor, Cieszek, Jarosław, Mikołaj, Dobromir

These are names of some of the most important (except for the ruling dynasty itself) people in Ruegen in period 1170 - 1303.

But that changed in times of Prince Wislaw III (1304 - 1325), who was a real Germanophile:

Prince Wislaw III: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitslav_III,_Prince_of_Rügen

In 1304 German language replaced Latin as the official written language of Fürstentum Rügen.

Soon Wislaw III decided to De-Slavicize and Germanize his entire court, replacing local ruling class by German foreigners.

The reason he did that was because - despite being of Slavic descent (at least in his paternal lineage) - Prince Wislaw III was utterly Germanized. As a kid he was educated in western Germany, he was literate and could speak and write fluently in German. He probably felt very weird when surrounded by Slavic-speakers.

Wislaw III undoubtedly had a German identity and was also a patriot of the HRE as a whole, rather than just of his own Principality.

On the other hand his father - Wislaw II - undoubtedly had a Slavic identity, which is demonstrated by his last will, in which he demanded that Slavic taxpayers of villages Michaelstorp and Bretwisch (Pikut, Senchepil, Thesemaro and Slawetke) after his death should keep their privileges that he had granted them.

Examples of Slavic given names and nicknames/surnames of the nobility of the Principality of Ruegen from the 13th - 16th centuries:

Chocian, Nikolaus son of Jerosław de Kalant, Unisław, Guslavus Oblitz, Bispravus, Sleomarus, Domaslaus, Geomarus, Guslavus de Barth, Mateus Moltike, Johanus Cule, Paulus son of Bartusz, Thezemarus, Nazemarus, Bartold Soneke, Heinrich Unka, Volradus Dargatz, Raven known as Boe, Hinricus Dars, Nicolaus and Tetze de Putbuske, Jareko de Ghudzekow, Pritbor de Lanka, Pritbur de Vilmnitz, Boranta de Vilmnytz, Darghemer de Jasmunt, Dubslavus Smantevitz, Jan and Sulisław Nacewitz, Pribislaw Nacewitz, Dubbeslaf Smantewitze, Sulleslavus Sunnevytze, Dubbermar, Sulleslaw von Schele, Prybe von Schele, Gamba, Sum vel Tzum.

For example in year 1496 we have Stoislaus de Kaland living in Ruegen. A clearly Slavic given name (Stoisław).

And a noble lady from Ruegen - Cezyslava (Cieszka), owner of Gustekow.

=====================

Then we have also many written sources from that time which testify to continued use of Slavic language, for examples

- Laskaris Kananos (1438-1439): wrote that Slavic language was still widely spoken in the regiom of Slavonia, the main city of which was Luebeck;

- Jan Długosz (1455-1480): wrote about the Slavic-speaking character of regions of Bukow (Bukkow), Dobin, Mikelburg, Lunemburg, Aldemburg, Raceburg (Raczesburg), Sigeburg, Plunen, Iłow, Zwerin, Malechow, Rostek, Kuczyn, Werlem, and other regions (spelling of names after Długosz);

- Nicolaus Marschalk Thurius (1521): wrote that inhabitants of Jabelhaide were at that time still Slavic by language and culture;

- Marcin Kromer (1565): wrote that German counties located along the Baltic coast, including Lueneburgian counties and those in the Margraviate of Brandenburg, were still largely inhabited by Slovaks [i.e. Slavs], who spoke "the same language as Poles, but mixed with German language";

- Dawid Frank in "Alt und neues Meklemburg", published in Güstrow-Leipzig in 1753, wrote that people in the regions of Sternberg and Grabow until that time (year 1753) preserved their Slavic culture, but not their Slavic language - which had already ceased to be spoken in that region by then.

======================

Then for example we have information about Slavic-speaking inhabitants of the region of Drawehn-Wendland, west of the Elbe River, who preserved their Slavic language until the end of the 18th century (some knowledge of speech of their ancestors survived in the region even later - also during the 1800s).

In the past (especially until the end of WW2 but also after the war - as a defensive reaction to the trauma of post-war expulsions) German historiography claimed that Germanization of areas between the Elbe River and the Oder River (and beyond) was rapid and total. But deeper analysis of available evidence shows that the process was gradual, lasted for centuries, almost to modern times. Actually, the process has not yet ended because there are still a few Sorbian speakers in Germany today. Old German historiography rejected the Slavic heritage of Germans as it attempted to draw a thick line separating Germans from their eastern neighbours.

This tendency to neglect Slavic history can still be seen today to some extent.

===========================

There was serious discrimination of Slavs in Medieval Gemany. That discrimination at the beginning was not that strong, but was increasing in time, with new restrictions prohibiting Slavic-speakers from many activities - which surely contributed to Germanization. Among frequent restrictions were:

- prohibiting trade with Slavic-speakers
- banning the usage of Slavic language in cities & towns
- rejecting Slavic-speakers from joining guilds of craftsmen*
- forcing Slavs from suburbs and Slavic districts of cities to perform slave-labour
- expelling Slavs from their homes or entire settlements, without any compensation

This last thing (frequent expulsions) applied also to Jews in Medieval & Early Modern Holy Roman Empire.

*To join a guild of artisans one needed to gain a "good birth" certificate; clerks refused to give such certificates to Slavs. Being born to Slavic parents was, according to those clerks, not a "good birth" - just like for example being born from a prostitute or being born as a bastard child, etc.

In many cities Slavic-speakers had their own associations and guilds, but later those were being banned - especially in the Margraviate of Brandenburg.

In 1490 the court in Luebeck refused a German woman her right to inheritance, just because she was born to mixed parents (her father was Slavic).

In the 18th century counsellors in Hamburg demanded from new citizens of the city a confirmation that "they are not Goths or Wends".

=========================

About legal discrimintion aimed at eliminating Slavic-speakers from urban life in Medieval and Early modern Germany wrote:

W. Schich, "Zum Ausschluss der Wenden aus den Zünften nord- und ostdeutscher Städte im späten Mittelalter",
in: Nationale, etnische Minderheiten und regionale Identitäten in Mittelalter und Neuzeit, Toruń 1994.
 
Names of many new settlements in Ruegen - established in the 1200s and the 1300s - were called after their founders or after people who settled there.

Many of such settlements have names derived from Slavic given names:

Settlement Banitze from name Banek - established in 1294, Denkevitze from Danek - in 1297, Ghurvitze from Gor - in 1294, Jarkevitze from Jarek - in 1294, Malkevitze from Malek - in 1294, Nedesitze from Niedasz - in 1294, Teskevitze from Teszek/Cieszek - in 1294). Sieroszewice and Dumszewice in year 1300.

During the reign of Prince Wislaw II, two rich Slavic peasants named Sulimir and Domamir bought (from Prince Wislaw) two villages in the Jasmund Peninsula.

So the idea that settlements with Slavic names are only old settlements (only those existing prior to the Northern Crusades) is wrong.

Out of all settlements in the island of Ruegen, proportions of names by origin are:

Settlements with names of Slavic origin - 79,21%
Settlements with names of Germanic origin - 20,79%

Contrary to popular beliefs, Slavic was spoken in the Principality of Ruegen until the 1600s, which is proven by names of some inhabitants:

In Garz: Dareslaf Barnekow (1434), Jesse Dubran (1381), Radeke Gyle (1437), Merten Stannyke (1453), Clawes Subeke (1401), Yesse Drake (1400), Johann Copac (1383), Radeke Grol (1426), Chim Czubyk (year 1586), Slaweke (Sławek) Pagela (1561), Bylik (1530), Boygh (1459), Bon (1458), Bula (1498), Labban (1461), Pewes (1565), Prenn (1561), Stanick (1561), Venzmer (1562), Vent (1521), Wres (1498).

In Bergen (year 1509): Bisick, Bregass, Bohlen, Bores, Bugislaff, Laban, Las, Lüdeke, Mallan, Maße, Meuschelke, Miltzan, Miltech, Pantelmole, Pußeske, Quaas, Raddatz, Radvan, Ralyk, Sekuthe, Silmer, Stanik, Techemer, Tegel, Tetze, Utesse, Voltzke, Vrese, Wartislaff, Witzlaus, Zambor, Ziernick, Zuma, Mathias Czilik.

In Barth: Carlik (1479), Doltzke (1469), Fantzs (1474), Glup (1465), Koltzke (1468), Prybe (1492), Radusse (1499), Roddewan (1466), Teske (1478), Tzarneke (1471), Tzilgmer (1465), Tzum (1503), Uteska (1480), Jesse (1455), Ywen (1500).

Some of surnames of Slavic origin from the city of Bergen after 1613 (but they rather did not speak Slavic anymore): Balicke, Bars, Bartel, Batike, Bliesath, Botteke, Darschlaff, Dase, Divock, Dobess, Drewes, Ghambe, Garnatz, Gove, Gerke, Gardess, Cholste, Howern, Jancke, Jesse, Jercke, Kolnick, Kopass, Koes, Krofatz, Lebban, Mancke, Maeß, Moiselke, Meve, Miltzan, Mierag, Pagel, Pank, Pommereske, Pußeske, Pudbriese, Putzahn, Rauen, Rekelse, Reibe, Schlaveke, Zekute, Zilmer, Staneke, Starck, Tebel, Teßmer, Tezlaff, Timmeske, Utesche, Ustym, Valick, Vyreke, Wytzebulle, Voeß, Woye, Vent, Wyer, Wyse, Witteke, Woytike, Vulian, Zabel, Zerncke, Zorn.

Late Medieval Slavic surnames from the city of Garz and year when a surname was mentioned: Botteke (1389), Boie (1380), Brede (1377), Dalik (1400), Damp (1389), Lastke (1433), Meseke (1416), Mylaken (1397), Pentze (1416), Plone (1433), Pocke (1426), Radeke (1432), Raleke (1381), Retse (1423), Scharke (1416), Subeke (1403), Techelin (1403), Tzum (1422), Ventzeke (1437), Voje (1444), Vosse (1390), Went (1411), Wilicken (1388), Witt (1400), Wural (1380).

Slavic surnames in the city of Barth in Late Middle Ages: Balulle, Blise, Gameratte, Ghermatze, Grust, Janeke, Kalibe, Klempe, Kneze, Milges, Mylike, Moltke, Ponad, Praweranke, Rades, Rasslaf, Slavus, Streye, Tesekinus, Tesmer, Wend.

Info about the death of the supposedly last Slavic-speaking woman in Ruegen - often wrongly attributed to T. Kantzow - was in fact written by M. Klempzen in 1542.

Christianization in Ruegen was done mostly by local Slavic priests, here are names of some of them (and years when they were mentioned):

Dobroslaw & Radoslaw (reign of Wislaw I), Jarosław (1241), Jan Volskevitz (1360), Dubbeslaf (1386), Jan Mirosław (1390), Matheus Kalick (1485)

===================

Von Moltke was a family from Mecklenburg of Slavic descent.

===================

Coming back to the Principality of Ruegen - Late Medieval Slavic inhabitants, more examples:

Village Putgarten (Podgrodzie) in 1335: Kołczak, Radzimar, Grubicz, Twargieł, Myldestrey, Greve and Gulikin.
Teschvitz (Cieszkowice) around 1360: Hinrich Pribycze, Raslaf.
Sieroszewice (Zirzevitz) in 1375: Tradytze, Slaweke, Dubbertytze, Dubbeslaf.
Porzecze (Preetz) around 1450: Hinrick Suleke, Jakob Maske, Gusslaf Syse, Tesslaf Utstym, Radeviske
Gielczaw (Tilzow): Teslafa Tzirke
Gostowice (Wostevitz): Hinrik Suleke, Matheus Blisenisse, Matheus Virs
Ilmnica (Vilmnitz): Tetze, Radutzke, Claus Ponat, Thidericus Dollan, Matheus Dargemer, Hinrik Poddeban.
Kępa (Kampe): Clawes Dubbeke
Łuniewice (Lonvitz): Jacob Ustym, Tetze Kankel, Tetze Ustym, Clawes Ustym
Jińszcz (Gingst): H. Fantik, Jancke, C. Lubbemar, M. Quineske.

And in late 15th century there were Slavic-speakers also for example in: Viervitz, Krakvitz, Nadelitz, Neukamp, Neuendorf, Darsband, Krampas.

In the 16th century in Granica (Granitz): P. Stancke, B. Teebeske, M. Graill.
In Kwasowo (Quatzendorf): H. Bregatze
In Strachlewice (Strachelvitz): Claus Suleke, Hinrik Suleke.
In Zieleń (Sehlen / Sellin): Hans Dubbran, J. Koes, M. Wytmusse.

Slavic-speaking not yet assimiated (Germanized) nobility (knights) in the 15th century lived for example in: Piaski (Patzig), Rabin (Rambin), Byszyn (Bessin), Naczewice (Natzevitz), Żylwenice (Silmenitz), Trambica (Dramvitz), Łąki (Lancken), Sehlen / Sellin, Dargonice (1439), Brzezice (1467).

Those Slavic knights had their own legal status separate from that of German/Germanized knights at least until 1530 (last document confirming this).

=======================

Slavic language in the little island of Hiddense was spoken at least until 1426 (in that year certain Raslavus Raddas was recorded as one of its inhabitants).

========================

Documents from years 1626 and 1636 indicate that Slavic language in Ruegen was still spoken at that time in these villages:

Grieben, Bohlendorf, Lobkevitz, Vitte, Glowe, Salsitz, Lohme, Klein Zitzewitz, Polchow, Stedar, Jarnitz, Dartzow, Poseritz, Nedarnitz, Drewoldke, Losentiztz, Wieke, Dumsevitz, Tilzow, Sehlen, Strussendorf, Bublevitz, Reetz, Schaprode, Murswiek, Lüsnevitz, Boldevitz, Granitz, Kotevitz, Rantze, Grabow


So Slavic language survived there at least until mid-17th century - not until early 15th century as a common misconception claims.

In 1847 Polish traveler Wincent Pol (his mother was Polish and his father was Austrian German) visited Mönchgut Peninsula of the island of Ruegen and noted that its inhabitants - despite speaking a local dialect of German - still considered themselves to be a separate ethnic groups, called "Reboken" - which sounds like rybacy (fishers in Polish). Pol also recorded that their local German dialect included some clearly Slavic words - he wrote them down: reba, morie, żywot (life), ziemia (earth), niebo (sky), chmara, drel, mleko (milk), kęs, tata (father), mać, dziewa (girl), perekop, Bóg (God), chata (home), piorun*, woda (water)...

*Piorun (also Perun) was a Pagan Slavic god of thunder - after Christianization the word started to mean "thunderbolt". Baltic equivalent is Perkunas.

Perhaps those 19th century Reboken people were the last remnants of culture that had constructed Arkona one thousand years earlier...
 
west of the Oder River too, very large areas were still primarily Slavic-speaking during the 1500s - early 1600s.

This is approximate extent of Polabian-speaking majority and Sorbian-speaking majority Slavic territories in the 16th century (1500s):



Germanization made fastest progress in the middle. But Sorbian-majority area could actually at that time be even bigger than this.

"Corridors" for Germanization to advance east were 1) along the Baltic coast, 2) in the Polabian-Sorbian borderland, and 3) along the Sudetes.
 
There was serious discrimination of Slavs in Medieval Gemany. That discrimination at the beginning was not that strong, but was increasing in time, with new restrictions prohibiting Slavic-speakers from many activities - which surely contributed to Germanization. Among frequent restrictions were:

This looks a bit like an Apartheid system. Does Schich explain why these measures were taken? I can understand that there is only one official language at court or at markets. One needs a lingua franca. I can even understand that the guilds want their members to use the official language. But all other measures seem to be quite strange for the middle age. Afaik there were different medieval laws ("leges") for different ethnical groups (similar to England in the early middle age.) Might these different law systems have something to do with it?


BTW: I've discovered among the Slavic surnames from above several well known names. Among them the name of my math teacher;). He was a brilliant teacher, but I had some phases of mental weakness (concerning math:D).
 
Reasons were similar as reasons for such Apartheid-like measures introduced by Anglo-Saxons in conquered British territories.

And for example in Wales similar measures were introduced in 1402 after the uprising of Owen Glynwdr was smashed.

there were different medieval laws ("leges") for different ethnical groups (similar to England in the early middle age.)

In Anglo-Saxon kingdoms Romano-Britons were also discriminated by law: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13500810&highlight=schillings#post13500810

=============================================================================

Regarding the 19th century remnants of Slavic culture in what is now Northern Germany:

Apart from those Reboken from Ruegen in 1847, we can add the last Drevani people in Drawehn in 1890:

"Bei dem Interesse, das die Schicksale der alten Eibslaven und die Ueberreste der polabischen Sprache erwecken, muss eine Notiz der preussischen Volkszählung vom Jahre 1890 grosse Aufmerksamkeit erregen. In dieser Statistik ist nämlich angegeben, dass im Kreise Lüchow des hannoverschen Wendlandes noch 585 Personen wendisch als ihre Muttersprache bezeichnen."

Weiter ist die Sache von dem Freiherrn v. Fircks in der Zeitschrift des königlich preussischen statistischen Bureaus XXXIII (1893)

(...)

"indem in hannoverischen Kreis Lüchow einige hundert Personen als „wendisch" sprechend in die Listen eintrugen und sodann auch in der gedruckten Statistik als „Wenden" aufschiesen"
Paul Diels, "Die slavischen Völker. Mit einer Literaturübersicht von Alexander Adamczyk", Wiesbaden 1963.

It is well confirmed in sources that native (local) Slavic language survived in Lueneburger Heide until the 1790s. But 100 years later? That's a surprise.

About their language wrote Paul Rost, "Die Sprachreste der Drawno-Polaben In Hannöverschen", Leipzig 1907. And more recently - Reinhold Olesch.

====================================

Early Medieval Slavic Szczecin (before the charter on Magdeburg Law in year 1243):

 
Slavs in Franconia* became part of the Frankish state after year 740 and became Christianized by Charlemagne around year 800, who ordered to construct 14 churches for them. Those Slavic tribes were called Moinwinidi and Radanzwinidi and they lived along the rivers Main and Regnitz, as Charlemagne's document from 794 reveals:

"in terra Sclavorum, qui sedent inter Moinum et Radentiam fluvios, qui vocantur Moinwinidi et Radanzwinidi."

*Today Bavaria.

Assimilation of those Slavs in Franconia lasted several centuries. In year 1162 we still have Slavic names among them (for example certain guys Dragan and Gleische from Effelder near Coburg); in 1233 in Herzogtum Meranien we have a certain important guy Konrad Slavir. Slapansgereute (Schlappenreuth) near Bamberg is a settlement founded by Slapan, who was Slavic. His descendants can be traced in sources until the 15th century. According to historian Erwin Herrmann the family of Walpoten from Franconia was also Slavic - their castles have names of Slavic origin (Trebgast, Zwernitz). Medieval von Slawendorf family were also Franconian Slavs. Slavic population of Slawendorf (later called Altenstadt, today part of Bayeruth) preserved their language until the 14th century, as there are 14th century documents which say about Slavic inhabitants there. Near Weichenwasserlos there is a toponym Grotze suggesting existence of a Slavic castle. This Grotze is surrounded by settlements with names of Slavic origin - Granitz auf der Dobrich, Dobdansdorf in den Tibitzen, in der Peusteritz. Graitzstein, Greyczberg near Staffelstein, Marktgraitz, Teunz are other former Slavic castles in the region.

German summary of the article about this by Jerzy Strzelczyk:

 
Regarding the 19th century remnants of Slavic culture in what is now Northern Germany:

Apart from those Reboken from Ruegen in 1847, we can add the last Drevani people in Drawehn in 1890:



It is well confirmed in sources that native (local) Slavic language survived in Lueneburger Heide until the 1790s. But 100 years later? That's a surprise.

About their language wrote Paul Rost, "Die Sprachreste der Drawno-Polaben In Hannöverschen", Leipzig 1907. And more recently - Reinhold Olesch.

Indeed, that would be surprising:

The German text you quoted above is from an article of a scientific magazine "Archiv für slavische Philologie" (Archive for Slavic Philology), vol. 22 (1900), p. 318:

https://archive.org/stream/archivfrslavis22berluoft#page/318/mode/2up/search/polaben

It is also quoted in this forum http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=68470

The complete text:

Spoiler :
Kleine Mittheilungen. 319

Leskien hat bei der Herausgabe von Schleicher's polabischer Grammatik er-
folglose Nachforschungen angestellt.

Auf Grund dieser Sachlage lohnt es sich eigentlich kaum, nähere Nach-
forschungen anzustellen. Um aber die Frage zu erledigen und um unnütze
Aufregung zu vermeiden, habe ich es doch gethan.

Die Zählkarten der Volkszählung von 1890 sind leider nach Mittheilung
des Direktors des kgl. preuss. stat. Bureaus schon eingestampft. Dagegen
schrieb mir ein Herr, der aus Lüchow stammt und dorthin noch jährlich
zurückkehrt : »Eine wirklich wendisclisprechende Bevölkerung ist nicht mehr
vorhanden. Die Schrift von Hennings bietet alles, was überhaupt über das
hannoversche Wendland bekannt ist.«

Es bleibt also nur aufzuklären, wie der Irrthum auf den Zählkarten ent-
standen ist.

In den Zählkarten befand sich folgender Vordruck :

Muttersprache: deutsch, litauisch, polnisch, masurisch, kassu-
bisch, wendisch, mährisch, tschechisch, wallonisch, holländisch,
friesisch, dänisch oder ....

(Zutreffendes ist zu unterstreichen !)

Es ist aber durchaus und mit Absicht vermieden, auf den Begriff Mutter-
sprache näher hinzuweisen und ihn zu definiren, um ein möglichst unbeein-
flusstes Bild zu erhalten. Da nun aber im Kreise Lüchow eine grössere An-
zahl Leute sich selbst als Wenden bezeichnen und von andern so genannt
werden, so wird man die Unterstreichung des Wortes wendisch auf diese
Thatsache beziehen dürfen, wobei der Gegensatz der niederdeutschen Volks-
sprache zu dem Hochdeutschen oder die besonderen Eigenthümlichkeiten
des Dialektes mitgewirkt haben mögen. Gewiss wird sich bei einer genauen
Untersuchung manche alte Sitte, vielleicht auch noch manches ins Deutsche
gedrungene slavische Wort entdecken lassen, aber die Hoffnung, noch jemals
polabisch zu hören, müssen wir aufgeben.

Leipzig-Gohlis. H. Hirt



Ich hatte aus Anlass des oben auf S, 107—144 mitgetheilten Materials
die Frage über das angebliche Fortleben der hannoverischen Wenden auch
Herrn GR.-Prof, Zimmer in Greifswald vorgelegt und von ihm folgende Ant-
wort erhalten (am 27. 2. 1900):

Was nun die Angelegenheit der Lüchower Wenden anlangt, so habe ich
unterdessen authentische Erkundigungen eingezogen. Ich traf nämlich zu-
fällig mit unserem hiesigen Landrath zusammen und erkundigte mich, ob er
den Landrath des Amtes Lüchow kenne, worauf er mir sagte, es sei ein Herr
V. d, Knesebeck, ein sehr freundlicher Herr, der sich sicher ein Vergnügen
daraus machen würde, mir jede Auskunft zu geben. Ich wandte mich in Folge
dessen an ihn mit der Anfrage, indem ich kurz mittheilte, dass in slav. Zeit-
schriften die Nachricht umlaufe, im Amt Lüchow würde noch Wendisch ver-
standen. Er antwortete mir in liebenswürdiger Weise von Hannover aus, wo



320 Kleine Mittheilungen.

er auf dem Provinziallandtag augenblicklich ist. Aus dem Briefe geht her-
vor, dass Herr v. d. Knesebeck selbst aus dem Amt Lüchow gebürtig ist,
sein Familiengut, das seit Jahrhunderten im Besitz der Familie ist, liegt bei
Lüchow; er ist also nicht bloss amtlich, sondern auch persönlich von Jugend
auf mit den dortigen Verhältnissen vertraut. Er schreibt nun:

»Das sogenannte hannoverische Wendland, den Kreis Lüchau und
einige Theile des Kreises Dannenberg umfassend, hat c. 20,000 obotritische
Wenden als Einwohner, welche aber in den letzten Jahrzehnten durch Hei-
rathen mit der Nachbarschaft manche Zusätze von deutschem Blut erhalten
haben.

Die Wendländer, in ihrem Aeusseren von den Niedersachsen durch
scharfgeschnittene Züge, meistens etwas dunkles Haar und ausgesprochen
schnelle Sprache sich unterscheidend, sind vollständig germanisirt. Die
Leute wissen selbst überhaupt nicht, dass sie Slaven sind, gesprochen wird
Plattdeutsch der Mecklenburger Mundart ähnelnd, nur doppelt so rasch. Die
Wendländer wissen überhaupt nur durch Erzählungen etwas davon, dass sie
in früheren Jahrhunderten eine besondere Sprache gehabt haben. Heute
findet man nur ganz vereinzelt wendische Bezeichnungen im wendländi-
schen Platt. Es kommen auch noch einige offenbar wendische Familien-
namen vor, z. B. Glabbatz, Pardam, Kuthleik und einige mehr, im Allge-
meinen sind auch die Familiennamen germanisirt und zwar schon seit Jahr-
hunderten."


to summarize it: in the census of 1890 about 500 people from this region stated "Wendisch" as their mother tongue. Further investigations led to the conclusion that the locals referred to themselves as Wenden, but spoke German dialects. There are some loanwords from the Slavic language of their ancestors. The Landrat (district administrator) from this region who also grew up there stated that the local population only spoke Low German (Plattdeutsch) and they only knew from narratives that in the past their ancestors spoke a different language. "So we must give up the hope to hear ever Polabisch (the old Slavic language)".
 
That's the same as with Reboken from Ruegen - they already spoke German, but still preserved some sort of Slavic identity.

The situation in France was in reverse: the Roman population (who were the romanized Celtic population) identified with their Germanic conquerors from the Frankish tribes and called themselves "French", but continued to speak Latin / Romance dialects. In the eastern regions of the early Frankonian kingdom the Latin language died out and the Romans became Germanized. Till the 11th century there were still several isolated pockets near Trier (often called the German Rome because of its Roman monuments) where a Romance language was spoken. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moselromanische_Sprache



The only surviving Roman town gate of Trier (Augusta Treverorum in more civilized times:p) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porta_Nigra

Rome, sweet Rome:D
 
When it comes to instances of legal discrimination of Slavs in the Holy Roman Empire.

That discrimination applied not only to Slavs, but also to other ethnic groups.

For example the statute of the guild of chandlers of the city of Anklam, issued in year 1330, says:

"(...) The Danes, the Slavs, and the Scots - as is the custom in Luebeck and in other coastal cities - cannot be considered worthy of joining this here association [the guild of chandlers in Anklam]. (...)"

So in this case discrimination applied to the Danes, the Slavs, and the Scots, who could not join the guild of chandlers.
 
Why do people think France is so good in this respect? I know, we are told that the French concept of nation is demos, and the German - ethnos. But that's not quite true in praxis. In praxis, the French authorities made great strives to destroy local languages and identities. Perhaps they did that in the interest of the state, not the nation, but the results are the same, or worse.
 
Why do people think France is so good in this respect? I know, we are told that the French concept of nation is demos, and the German - ethnos. But that's not quite true in praxis. In praxis, the French authorities made great strives to destroy local languages and identities. Perhaps they did that in the interest of the state, not the nation, but the results are the same, or worse.

The French idea of nationhood is based on the idea of French citizenship. If you are born in France or you acquire the French citizenship you are French. In theory your descent or the descent of your parents, your linguistical or ethnical identity does not matter.

In practice many French of foreign descent are still confronted with prejudices and discrimation in France.

France has not (yet?) recognized the existence of ethnical minorities in the state.

French is the language of education and administration all over France, although several regional languages and dialects are spoken.




and with further details:




There is - as usual - the tricky definition what is a separate ethnical identity. Is someone, who is born in Brittany, of Breton descent for the last 1,000 years and speaking Breton, French or Breton? Or does he even belong to the British minority in France (the early Bretons were immigrants from Britain in the late antiquity/early middle age)?:)





Even the linguistical identity is a bit complicated. There are several dialect areas between the languages.



France has one official language, the French language. The French government does not regulate the choice of language in publications by individuals but the use of French is required by law in commercial and workplace communications. In addition to mandating the use of French in the territory of the Republic, the French government tries to promote French in the European Union and globally through institutions such as La Francophonie. The perceived threat from anglicisation has prompted efforts to safeguard the position of the French language in France.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_France


As you live in Poland you must pay attention that after the failed Germanization and Russification in the 19th century you will not get french assimilated by the European Union- oh pardon - par l'Union Européenne:lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization


(on a personal level: I love la France and their language and their cuisine...):D
 
EU should force France to acknowledge the existance of national and linguistic minorities within it.
 
Bilingual education (I mean: l'éducation bilangue;) ) in France:



I've found a brochure of the French ministry of education:

"Apprendre et enseigner les langues et les cultures régionales dans l'école de la république".

Learning and teaching the regional languages and cultures in the school of the republic:

http://multimedia.education.gouv.fr/2013_langues_regionales/files/assets/downloads/publication.pdf

As I cannot link it directly, pls look on page 22/23 where you can find the number of pupils (élèves) who learn the regional (and the respective standard language) in the districts of the Académie. The regional language can be taught as a normal subject, but there are also schools with bilingual education, so that other subjects are taught in the regional language. In Corse and Alsace / Lorraine the pupils learn both the regional languages and the respective standard languages Italian and German.

I have not yet found any statistics on which percentage of pupils learn the regional languages in school.
 
Regarding the number of Germans in Prussia in year 1300:

Carolus I said:
Domen said:
Gerard Labuda estimates the number of Germans in Eastern Prussia in 1300 as up to 15,000.

Labuda estimated Old Prussians in 1300 as 120,000

But how does he come to this conclusion?

Another historian - Łucja Okulicz-Kozaryn - estimates the number of Germans in Prussia in year 1310 as 15,000 up to 20,000 (which is consisted with Labuda's estimate of 12,000 up to 15,000 around year 1300). She writes that they were no more than 15% of population and likely less.

Here is how she calculated that:

Until year 1310 in total 116 German villages on Kulmer Recht were established in Prussia - Łowmiański estimates their population as 9,000 Germans. In addition to this 15 towns were established - their population is estimated as over 5,000 Germans. Several dozen German feudal landlords also settled. Finally add to this the personnel of the Teutonic Order - estimated as 2,000 Germans. In total 16,000 - 20,000 Germans in Prussia in year 1310.

Historian Henryk Łowmiański estimates that around 1283 - just after the conquest - there were at least 30,000 Poles (vast majority in the Land of Kulm + an unknown number of emigrants from Cuiavia and Pomerelia in Pomezania) and up to 80,000 Prussians in the Teutonic Order's State.

Around year 1220 Old Prussians numbered according to Okulicz-Kozaryn around 170,000 people in territory of 42,500 km2 (density of 4 people per 1 km2), but that number did not include Yotvingians and their lands (Yotvingian territories did not become part of the Teutonic Order State's).

It seems that during the Christian conquest and crusades Prussians lost between 30% and 55% of population (including refugees).

Some 20% - 30% of all Prussians collaborated with the Teutonic Order and later became the privileged group among the natives. But the remaining 70% - 80% of Prussians, those who broke the Treaty of Christburg (1249), became the lowest class of inhabitants of the Teutonic Order's State:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Christburg#Terms

By year 1400 population of East Prussia increased to 270,000 - 350,000.

But then it decreased to around 150,000 in year 1466 (due to wars against Poland-Lithuania).

Then it increased again to 210,000 - 215,000 in year 1507 and to 450,000 (360,000 without Polish Warmia) in year 1626.

In 1656 - 1660 East Prussia lost around 142,000 people (23,000 killed in war + 34,000 enslaved by Tatars + 84,000 died of plague and starvation).

In year 1707 the population was still higher - between 600,000 and 680,000.

However, in 1708 - 1711 around 200,000 - 250,000 died (war + plague + starvation), so that in 1711 only 360,000 - 440,000 left.

In 1725 - 1740 the population was estimated as around 600,000 (without Warmia 500,000).

In 1759 there was a census which showed the population to be 521,200 without Warmia (ca. 627,000 with Warmia).

In year 1816 there were 886,174 people in East Prussia (another source says that 915,000 but perhaps it includes military garrisons?).

According to the 1819 census there were 1,005,543 people in East Prussia - 220,047 urban population and 785,496 rural population.

========================================

Ethno-linguistic groups in East Prussia in 16th - 20th centuries:

http://s2.postimg.org/wtjscifjd/Ethnic_Prussia.png

 
When the Romans shifted their borderline to the Rhine in the last decades BC, the local Germanic and Celtic tribes (it is often unclear who was Celtic or Germanic) were "pacified", the areas were controlled by the legions and later on Roman settlers, merchants and clerks moved in. New Roman towns were "planted" and already existing settlements were enlarged in a Roman style.

Over the time there was a linguistical change from the native Celtic and Germanic languages to Latin. The local elites often changed their names to Roman names. IIRC there are studies based on Roman tombstones which indicates the name of the defunct person, name of the father, profession etc from the first century AD. Therefore we know that about 10 - 15 % of the population were not natives. This refers surely only the wealthier part of the population that could afford tombstones. So the percentage of immigrants among the population was certainly lower. These immigrants came from all parts of the Roman empire, but mainly from Gaule which was Romanized several decades before. Even some "real" Romans from Roma came to Germania, but also Egyptians and Greeks. The centers of Romanization were the cities, the so-called coloniae. Similar processes took place all over the Roman Empire.

A bit more about this:

The Romans established themselves more firmly and with greater success in Gaul than in most of their colonies; the Romanized Kelts gave up their language for a popular variety of Latin, as did the Aquitanians in the southwestern portion of the country, and the Ligurians in the southeast. Greeks, Armenians, Jews, and other subjects of the Roman empire established themselves in Gaul in considerable numbers. The Parisian spirit of internationalism dates back to the Roman occupation.

And something about the 20th century:

The territory of France is greater than her linguistic boundaries; on the corners of her domain are border provinces in which new foreign tongues have crept in, or in which older ones have long resisted absorption. Italian, in the southeast, is new; Basque and Breton date to the fifth century of our era-of the two the former is increasing, the latter slowly decreasing; Catalan in the Roussillon, so closely related to Langue d'Oc, is apparently static; in the north, Flemish, reaching westward from Belgium, is gradually on the decrease, as is German in Alsace. Although French is spoken by thousands of educated persons outside French territory as a second language, it is not an aggressive language within France itself. The total number of persons of native French citizenship within France whose mother language is not French is three and a half out of forty-two millions. At the same time four other millions out of the forty-two are naturalized or unnaturalized foreigners.
 
A bit more about this:



And something about the 20th century:

I just wonder how many of the native French citizens whose mother language is not French are part of the linguistical minorities. Some years ago I was in Paris to visit the church of St. Denis and I had the impression that at least 90 % of the local population in this northern suburb was originally from Northern Africa or Asia.

Where is French spoken in the world?

 
According to the French article on linguistical minorities in 1806 (within the borders of 2013):

Langues parlées en France métropolitaine (dans ses frontières de 2013) au recensement de 1806
Langue Nombre de locuteurs Pourcentage de la population française
Langues d'oïl 16 408 000 58,5%
Occitan 8 461 000 25%
Francoprovençal 2 197 000 7,4%
Dialectes allemands 1 036 498 3,5%
Breton 985 558 3,3%
Corse 174 702 0,6%
Flamand 156 973 0,5%
Catalan 118 700 0,4%
Basque 109 306 0,4%
Total 29 648 000 100%

So in 1806 not even 60 % of the French population actually spoke French (Langues d'oil).

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_régionales_ou_minoritaires_de_France#Recensement_de_1806

However the numbers for French who still speak one of the regional languages differ significantly. For example the number of people who speak more or less Occitan (in all its different dialects) differ between 789.000 and 12.000.000 speakers (!!!).
 
I've heard that on the day of Italian unification only 1 'Italian' in 100 could actually hold a conversation in standard Italian. Certainly the Greeks persisted with a 'standard' language spoken by almost nobody until they eventually had to drop it.
 
Top Bottom