The Hall of Players

1)
I see it's possible to get another +1 for shared civic. Can I get Pericles to Cautious? It's -3 Annoyed right now. Would quite like to get my grubby hands on some of his stuff.





2)
Some turns after founding Mining, I renegotiated multiple deals to boost Sushi. Was that a mistake? I've got +34 now, but it's costly. Will get Electricity this turn, but then need to turn off research again. Each new Sushi resource costs almost 40 . Despite Wealth in loads of Coal+Power cities, I'm losing 4000 a turn. Do I need to gift away heaps of resources again (which can't be cancelled for 10 turns)?

This is during a GA....





3)
Because I've mostly been able to 1-turn executives with whipping OF, I've played with the thought of going back to Caste well before the GA ends (in 19 turns, so can theoretically change this turn). Would this be a bad idea? So far I've spread Mining to 17 cities. Admittedly many islands could use whipping infra, but without Sushi in many of them it will be slow, and all those workshops could use +1, not to mention cleaner genepools for getting 4GPs and maybe 5GP Golden Age (latter probably unlikely).

Mining only gives +28 btw, which seems a bit crap for a Huge map, but I also suspect that the Huge map is working against me, due to only 0.5 per resource. I should get it up to 30-ish by some ice silver, but probably not much more than that. Think I had 38 in the Gauntlet

Been following your game, Pangaea--not as closely as the G-Major one but...following .

I have a couple of newbie-ish questions (what else is new?).
1) Why the heavy emphasis on expanding Corps as fast as possible?
2) And, related, why seeking to do so via 1-turn execs?

BTW, in the recent BOTM I had Sushi/Mining and thought I'd try boosting my pop score via Sushi but I couldn't counter the score decrease as #turns played increased. Maybe this is one reason why corps spread needs to be ASAP. Basically, what I learned from that game was that I really don't know how to use corps efficiently.
You probably know about this score calculator already but thought I'd throw it in case you don't. You can input values from a game to see what your score will be given x pop, x land, etc.
From T-Hawks Civ site: http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/calc.shtml

@ Pangaea: You had good intuition, with advising me to go for Cannons. It's really the best way in this game, because my army consists of 12 or 13 units, mostly Axes, HAs and Elephants. With Cannons, those can still kill about anything, also because they're well promoted. If going for Rifles, I'd have to build a completely new army, and I don't like not using the troops I got, and Cuirrs / Cavs are just way too expensive and I'd also need to build them completely new. I estimated, that I'd need at least 30 Cuirrs to conquer Roosevelt, that's so much resources, that I'd want to conquer 3 empires with those .

@ Pollina: I didn't have time to look at the saves yet, but wanted to say TY aswell. I'll try the AGG-AI setting in my next game. I'm not completely sure, that it's really always the better option. I btw. read an old thread I made about AGG-AI, and I found out, that AGG-AIs doesn't tech slower than normal AIs. I appreciate very much, that you were attentive and gave me that advice, it's been quite a while, since I read something of which I think, that it could improve my game greatly.

ShiVvV said:

Been following your game, Pangaea--not as closely as the G-Major one but...following .

I have a couple of newbie-ish questions (what else is new?).
1) Why the heavy emphasis on expanding Corps as fast as possible?
2) And, related, why seeking to do so via 1-turn execs?

BTW, in the recent BOTM I had Sushi/Mining and thought I'd try boosting my pop score via Sushi but I couldn't counter the score decrease as #turns played increased. Maybe this is one reason why corps spread needs to be ASAP. Basically, what I learned from that game was that I really don't know how to use corps efficiently.
You probably know about this score calculator already but thought I'd throw it in case you don't. You can input values from a game to see what your score will be given x pop, x land, etc.
From T-Hawks Civ site: http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/calc.shtml

Click to expand...

Corporations is a big game changer, and it's important to spread it fast to take advantage of that asap. It costs a LOT of , but for instance +20-25 means most cities grow every 1-3 turns, and they regrow pretty much instantly after whipping. This means you can quickly get out infrastructure and/or run many specialists. Then you have Mining which greatly increase output, which often means more effective building of Wealth. It seems counter intuitive to cold-whip, but it's the best way (I hear the experts say) due to speed, and as mentioned the cities do regrow very fast.

It's also a practical timing issue tbh. You usually need a GAge to change civics, and need slavery to cold whip execs. This means you only have so many turns to spread the corps before the GA runs out, when you typically want to go back to caste to run many specialists. Unless you manage to spread the corps to 4-5 cities a turn with cold whips (where Kremlin comes in real handy), you simply don't have time to spread the corps throughout your empire. Unless it's small ofc.

Checked out that site before btw, but had little idea about some of the values, so difficult to know what the score will be in the end.

Seraiel said:

@ Pangaea: You had good intuition, with advising me to go for Cannons. It's really the best way in this game, because my army consists of 12 or 13 units, mostly Axes, HAs and Elephants. With Cannons, those can still kill about anything, also because they're well promoted. If going for Rifles, I'd have to build a completely new army, and I don't like not using the troops I got, and Cuirrs / Cavs are just way too expensive and I'd also need to build them completely new. I estimated, that I'd need at least 30 Cuirrs to conquer Roosevelt, that's so much resources, that I'd want to conquer 3 empires with those .

Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that Seraiel. The cannons were of excellent use in my game too, so I'm glad I Libbed Steel instead of something deeper in the tree. Cannons kill just about anything with negligible losses until Rifles, and even then they maul through them well-promoted. Pretty hilarious to see CR3 Cannons with 99.6% odds




Any comments on my above queries btw? I've laboured through about 2 more turns in the last 3 hours

Not cool to notice you have cold whipped the wrong type of executive btw, or galleon chained a bloke to a city far away that already had Sushi. Grrrrr.

Or... maybe there isn't much to answer and I just need to keep going with slavery and eventually be able to turn research back on for good. I do wonder about whether I should cut off some of the Sushi resources though

Plan now is to get to Radio so I can get up Cristo Redentor. Checked before launching the last GA, and it was 10(!!) turns anarchy to change one civic without a GA....

1. Idk.

2. I think it's right to go for maximum Sushi-resources after having Mining, after Electricity definitely. You want your cities to grow with maximum speed, and then, when they're big, you can cancel deals so they have minimal surplus.

3. Don't go back to Caste. Spreading Corps everywhere is more important than anything else.

Seraiel said:

1. Idk.

2. I think it's right to go for maximum Sushi-resources after having Mining, after Electricity definitely. You want your cities to grow with maximum speed, and then, when they're big, you can cancel deals so they have minimal surplus.

3. Don't go back to Caste. Spreading Corps everywhere is more important than anything else.

Click to expand...

Thanks. You are probably right that it's better to stick with slavery for longer so I can spread corps more efficiently. I'm also trying to set up some chains to the islands for more Sushi, as I stopped doing that earlier. Such a pain in the neck to micro though

Max Sushi is horribly expensive, but it sounds best to let the cities grow for now. Hopefully I'll be able to pay for it later when Mining is spread to most of the mainland. Always hate those pesky failed spread missions though. It messes up the OF and logistics and whatnot



Hopefully an easy explanation to this that I've overlooked or don't know about... but what gives? All forests in the NP city have forest preserves, but only two of the riverside ones give extra while others do not

Forest-preserves restore the riverside-bonus of a tile, so 1 . As you're in a GA, it's 2 in your situation. With Enviromentalism, all Forest-preserves would even get a bonus themselves iirc., making them really nice tiles for OOC-Space-Victories, as they give and .

Yes, but that is the issue. Two riverside forest preserves give extra commerce, while two others do not -- SW and 2S of the city itself. What is wrong there?

Are you sure, you didn't build Lumbermills on (some of) those tiles? The tile-yields, somehow look strange for me.

Quite sure I didn't, but can open the game and check again. The yields should be correct. Hammers are a bit higher due to GA and Levee.

Edit: Nope, forest preserves on those too, and they still lack commerce when I opened the game now. Hoped it was a glitch somehow. Weird. Both are riverside and have the "Fresh water" tag when I hover over them.

If it helps, this is the city screen (+10 for forest preserves).

I just checked, even Lumbermills would give back the bonus from the River. I unfortunately then have no explanation, why 1SW and 2S don't give , except, that they're diagonally of the River, which shouldn't be a problem though.

Checked the screenshot of your NP + NE-city from the Prince Space Gauntlet again. Diagonally tiles don't give back the bonus, seems to be a bug in the game. Well observed, Sherlock ^^ .

Seraiel said:

Checked the screenshot of your NP + NE-city from the Prince Space Gauntlet again. Diagonally tiles don't give back the bonus, seems to be a bug in the game. Well observed, Sherlock ^^ .

Click to expand...

Hehe, thanks

Tried a city in WB too, and there appears to be some quirks. Here all preserves gave commerce, except the one 2W. Strange bug.



It was a plains hill, but changing it to either a grassland or green hill didn't help.

It's like I said, diagonally tiles don't give back the from the River, tiles N, W, S or E give back the . Look closely at that screen, all tiles that give have the River N, W, S or E. 2W is the only tile, that only has a diagonally connection.

Yep, looks like it. Preserves on the outside bend of rivers don't get the commerce like they should, a bit like how you can't build watermills there. Maybe some error in the coding there.

Okay, another "what gives?" query about a picture I took a few days ago. Which percentage is correct?



I got a GA btw. Usually both bars are equal, but sometimes it's a little off, and I wonder why, and what is correct. Does it have something to do with the previous bug about it being the turns a specialist was run that mattered, rather than the amount of points?

I think the info in the box is correct, the bar only shows the most probable 4, and counted the Scientist-% towards the Artist's one.

I btw. need the rules for teleportation urgently. I've searched the whole forum, and cannot find them, so I hope that WastinTime or someone else reads this soon.

I have conquered Peter with an army of 4 CR3++ Axes, 4 HAs + 1 WE which I upgraded to Knights later and then to Cuirrassiers and amazing 4 Trebs, which I upgraded to Cannons in the middle of the war . He had almost 10 cities, and I got basically all the valuable ones, and that with the loss of 1 Treb, 1 HA and 1 Axe .

Now preparations for Roosevelt run on high intensity. The HE-city is finally ready, and it pumps Maces, Cannons and Cuirrs at a speed of 2T / unit during the GA, which I got from the TM. Shock moment, Lizzy had Nationalism and got a GE, 3T before I finished the TM, but she built Versaille .

I think the war against Roosevelt might become really easy. I'll have 17 Maces / Cuirrassiers / Muskets and 9 Cannons, his power-ratio will be about 1.0, he won't stand any chance, because the best he got are Longbows or Muskets (he thankfully researched all techs except Rifling, Steel, Military Tradition or Military Science ) .

The only thing that annoys me, is the time in which Hatty and Mansa settled some new world cities. I traded Astronomy from Hatty on the turn when she got it, upgraded a Galley and sent the 1st Settler there instantly. Now, only little later, I'm sending the 2nd Settler, and Mansa already has 2 cities and Hatty at least 1. They have not taken any valuable places, but AI settling the new world that fast, is something completely new for me. Maybe I shouldn't have traded them my map, but I needed money -.- .


Here are some screens, in case of interest:



Capital is small, because of the Oxford whip-stacks and it doesn't really have that much when working the 2 Golds (only +5) . Was even worse, needed to work all tiles for TM and the Observatory, so the capital grew even slower. The city is not weak though.



2nd screen also showing, that my cities grew quite a lot, about which I'm very happy. I stopped whipping very early, and ran Caste, conquered Peter with almost nothing, and now the cities are big and can work nice Caste-Workshops and produce units or buildings really very fast.



The killer-city of Moscow with quadruple food and a River. Will become the IW-city.





Showing some nice new-world locations I want to settle. Some have as much as 5 resources, which I all could need, because many resources weren't available in the old world.







Nice tech-lead and so much research + saved money, that I can reserach Communism, Physics and Biology all with 100%. Production is through the roof, also because of the GA but mainly because of many early Caste-Workshops.

Hard to believe. I still have 125T 'til I need to finish, if I want to get the #1 slot. A Missionary and an AP-Temple cost 180 on those settings. Having in mind, that the Temple will give 4 with a Factory, it pays back in only 45T . So it makes sense for me, to spread 2 religions and that in the time of Scientific Method, 1 because of the shrine I'm going to conquer and the other one because of the Temples.

Or am I missing something?

Looks very nice, great to bang Peter over the head with such a tight army. Makes things easier in terms of infra. Have a pretty massive army in my game, and could easily have wiped the map I reckon (though all the islands kinda suck).

Have built very few AP-temples in my game, there always seems to be something more important. Like right now there is Wealth across the land while spreading corps, though I do try to get out at least libraries, and quite a few observatories. They've been useful to create OF for execs. Must have spread Mining to ~25 cities now, at least, and have less than 5 cold whips I think, so almost all 1-turned with OF. Not nice to get the GE so late, but at least it meant nice timing for whipping out factories and coal plants too, so you get more mileage out of the OF.

Probably a bit late to even bother with AP-temples now tbh. They take 60 turns to pay back on Marathon with 4 a piece, and then there is the opportunity cost, or whatever one might call it - simply better to build Wealth instead I reckon.

Admittedly I've already spread Buddhism very well by now, but missionaries pay back faster. Costs 80 and with the shrine+WS++, each makes 3 per turn. 80/3 = 27 turns.