Gatling Range?

joncnunn · Jun 29, 2012

I think it's more an admission that the AI sucks at 1 UPT formations than anything else.

There's definitely some moders here that could write a mod to improve the AI whenever the SDK gets released.

Calouste · Jun 29, 2012

bonafide11 said:
They're actually quite powerful.

They're ideal in forts and citadels. They have a high defense value and get defensive bonusses, while still able to attack and kills units without taking damage themselves or moving out.

tyrael233 · Jun 29, 2012

Yeah, 1UPT is great, the problem is that the AI can't use it at all.

StukaScream · Jun 30, 2012

mabalogna said:
These are great defensive units in rough terrain, and in open terrain they get first strike.

My only beef is that they can get 2 range, something i'd like to see gone. I dont even think Archers should get this promotion - maybe switch Logistics with the ignore terrain cost promotion scouts get so they can set up in hill/forests and shoot in the same turn, but not logistics. Logistics should really just be for Artillery - but thats just me

Quite good idea methinks.
Another way of modding it would be to let them move after attack, like a mobile unit, but with very short move for archer ofc, So they could pull back 1 tile after firing at 1 range. and maybe make it different for crossbowman, just let them act like gatling gun for defense. It would make crossbowman more of a defense unit instead of some imba longrange killer like it is.

Btw, looks kinda weird on earth map atm, with english longbowmen firing volleys over the channel at the frenchies. :cry:

The_J · Jun 30, 2012

Moderator Action: This is NOT a 1UpT topic! Back to the real topic please.

ahawk · Jun 30, 2012

I've yet to see the AI with Gatlings or MG's that have much for promotions at all. I normally play Emperor, and sometimes play King or Prince, so that could be why. And as far as the +1 range promotion, I rarely see the AI pick that. The only scary thing I've seen with the Gatling in the hands of the AI is Chinese Gatlings that must have been upgraded from Chu-Ko-Nu's: two attacks a turn! Still waiting to see upgraded English Longbowmen with +1 range though.

OmniPotent42 · Jun 30, 2012

Well if you think about it, archers have the capability to shoot OVER the infantry units in front of them. This was standard all the way up to crossbowmen. However, bullets only fire in a straight line, but can be faster and more accurate, thus removing the range advantage and replacing it with strength. If you think about it, a gatling gun can't shoot through a rifleman, but a crossbowman can shoot over a longswordsman.

Disgustipated · Jun 30, 2012

bonafide11 said:
They're actually quite powerful.

I agree. They come surprisingly early in the tech tree (or maybe my current game I just happened to beeline for them even though I wasn't intending to). gatling guns against swordsmen = game over for the AI. Are they supposed to get 2 attacks per turn? Because this just devastates the AI.

edit: I just noticed it wasn't a gatling gun getting 2 attacks per turn, but a machine gun. But I'm like 8 techs away from ballistics, so how do I have a machine gun? Can anyone answer that? That has to be a bug. No wonder I annihilated the Ethiopians.

Lyoncet · Jun 30, 2012

Disgustipated said:
edit: I just noticed it wasn't a gatling gun getting 2 attacks per turn, but a machine gun. But I'm like 8 techs away from ballistics, so how do I have a machine gun? Can anyone answer that? That has to be a bug. No wonder I annihilated the Ethiopians.

Weird. Are you a city-state and someone gifted you a machine gun? :lol:

aluelkdf · Jun 30, 2012

jimbbq said:
i am always wondering... what is the point of gatling guns/machine gun with only 1 range!?!?!

I was thinking the same thing at first until I got to use them, and then I saw how effective they are. In a melee attack you will always take damage.

With a range of 1, MG's have to be moved right the the adjacent hex, just like melee. But then you can attack the enemy and take zero damage. And unlike the earlier ranged units who have a range of 2, the MG and gatling gun are just as effective at defending as they are at attacking, except they do take damage when defending. But they are still very capable at defense nonetheless.

MG's are good for softening up your enemy while taking minimal damage yourself. Also, they are very good for attacking cities. If you have several MG's they can attack for several turns in a row with minimal damage, then when the city is weak enough you bring in a melee unit to capture it.

Marshall Thomas · Jun 30, 2012

aluelkdf said:
I was thinking the same thing at first until I got to use them, and then I saw how effective they are. In a melee attack you will always take damage.

With a range of 1, MG's have to be moved right the the adjacent hex, just like melee. But then you can attack the enemy and take zero damage. And unlike the earlier ranged units who have a range of 2, the MG and gatling gun are just as effective at defending as they are at attacking, except they do take damage when defending. But they are still very capable at defense nonetheless.

MG's are good for softening up your enemy while taking minimal damage yourself. Also, they are very good for attacking cities. If you have several MG's they can attack for several turns in a row with minimal damage, then when the city is weak enough you bring in a melee unit to capture it.

I'm surprised the designers made machine guns so effective at attacking cities. I always thought of the machine guns roll as defensive; like in The First World War. That's also how they were in Civ 4.

StukaScream · Jun 30, 2012

Marshall Thomas said:
I'm surprised the designers made machine guns so effective at attacking cities. I always thought of the machine guns roll as defensive; like in The First World War. That's also how they were in Civ 4.

Well its still way more effective with artillery. The MGs and gatlings do very little damage to cities compared to units, because of hidden bonus for siege unit. But softening them up a little they can.

pspboy7 · Jul 2, 2012

Put a few MG's in the front of your arty units and you got epic city killage.

Anyone00 · Jul 2, 2012

Another possibility besides the the range upgrade: some militaristic CS can gift UU.

OmniPotent42 said:
Well if you think about it, archers have the capability to shoot OVER the infantry units in front of them. This was standard all the way up to crossbowmen. However, bullets only fire in a straight line, but can be faster and more accurate, thus removing the range advantage and replacing it with strength. If you think about it, a gatling gun can't shoot through a rifleman, but a crossbowman can shoot over a longswordsman.

That another reason I think the upgrade path should be Crossbow Men => Congreve Rocket Men => Mortar Men; with Pike Men upgrading to Gatling Guns (O.K. not good for Germany).

elijahfire · Apr 23, 2013

galacticrevenge said:
There was a gatling gun in a city that I was attacking and it was able to shoot my units from 2 hexs away even though the gatling gun only has a range of 1. Do the machine guns and gatling get a range bonus inside cities?

Yeah it's the way the english cheat with their OP longbow promotions. Frankly gats should have a longer range anyway but oh well.

Unresolved · Apr 23, 2013

Nice necro. Anyways, there's a range promotion that units can get at level 4(minimum). It does not apply to the English specifically.

elijahfire · Apr 23, 2013

OmniPotent42 said:
Well if you think about it, archers have the capability to shoot OVER the infantry units in front of them. This was standard all the way up to crossbowmen. However, bullets only fire in a straight line, but can be faster and more accurate, thus removing the range advantage and replacing it with strength. If you think about it, a gatling gun can't shoot through a rifleman, but a crossbowman can shoot over a longswordsman.

I was thinking this too and I would have to agree. Gats shouldn't be able to get the range upgrade.

elijahfire · Apr 23, 2013

Unresolved said:
Nice necro. Anyways, there's a range promotion that units can get at level 4(minimum). It does not apply to the English specifically.

It's not a 'necro' the game is still quite alive and the topic relevant.

English get the upgrade for free at level 1.

Unresolved · Apr 23, 2013

elijahfire said:
It's not a 'necro' the game is still quite alive and the topic relevant.

English get the upgrade for free at level 1.

My point was that it is not an English exclusive promotion.

dopingman · Apr 24, 2013

Range is bugged anyway (there are some threads around here discussing this, War Academy thread about Range describes how to handle it).

Gattlings have only 1 hex range as they would be utterly OP with 2 or even 3 range, they are intendet as defensive units and how powerful they can be is easily observed when you march towards your enemy pre-artillery with 4 or 5 range/march/cover gattlings (easily obtainable, if you don't have them, you are neglecting early wars or use the wrong units [in a sense of there are better options]). Those guys can kill a city with 70+ def rating in a single turn whilst only taking mild damge. The whole ranged line is so utterly broken that most players don't build siege until aritllery is available or only 1 or 2 pieces to crack the toughest cities. Making them even more powerful and therefore desirable is the wrong way to go.

Gatling Range?

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