Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Although I'd have to say the man-eating horses and camels are some of my Civ's most feared monsters of legend.
And so they should, what with their herds being invisible and all until you get dog training.
C2C - Units
- Thread starter EldrinFal
- Start date
And so they should, what with their herds being invisible and all until you get dog training.
EldrinFal
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I'll compare a bit more the usefulness of the Spearman and Axemen compared to the bandit-types. Ideally I think there should be a balance between the usage of those two groups (and bandit and other types in general). If everyone is going from Thief to Rogue to Bandit, and not even using the Stone Axe/Spearmen, then it's not quite right.
Maybe other folks can chime in as well.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
And so they should, what with their herds being invisible and all until you get dog training.
Fine you guys win. Your logic cannot be denied. I will move the Horse and Camel to be revealed at Scavenging, just like Ivory and I will change the Stone Spearman and Stone Axeman to be enabled earlier.
EldrinFal
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Fine you guys win. Your logic cannot be denied. I will move the Horse and Camel to be revealed at Scavenging, just like Ivory and I will change the Stone Spearman and Stone Axeman to be enabled earlier.
All software requires fine tuning, Hydro. We're all working together to create the best mod C2C can be. It will always require changes here and there because with each addition, the game changes. The spawning methods have changed, new animals are added, the food system changed dramatically-- these elements have a huge impact on the game that no one can completely predict. It's all good dude.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I had actually been leaning towards these for quite some time. I think SO insisted that units needed a 2nd required tech, however it seems to work fine with just one (as far as I can tell). However its been so long since we first made the prehistoric techs its hard to remember what I thought back then.
As for the Horse and Camel, yeah its my mistake. Sorry for being so suborn about it and giving you such as hard time DH.
EDIT: I also changed the Impi and Quechua to no longer require Hunting tech either since they are equivalent to a Stone Spearman and Stone Axeman.
As for the Horse and Camel, yeah its my mistake. Sorry for being so suborn about it and giving you such as hard time DH.
EDIT: I also changed the Impi and Quechua to no longer require Hunting tech either since they are equivalent to a Stone Spearman and Stone Axeman.
My post now is about UU for culture. Wasn't sure where to place it and decided here might be the best place.
As it is now some UU get extra promotions while others only have higher base values or bonuses. That means that when upgrading the UU with extra promotion they KEEP their uniqueness while upgrading UU's with only increased base stats/bonuses they LOSE their uniqueness.
If it's not too much work it might be an idea to have each UU only get their extra stuff via unique promotions (that can't be taken on leveling, only get on creation).
For instance the Babylonian Bowman could get a promotion called Babylonian Bowman which grants the extra bonuses it gets, the Dog Soldier could get a Apache Dog Soldier promotion that gives it whatever stats you finally end up giving it. When upgrading these UU would keep their Promotions and thus their uniqueness.
Cheers
As it is now some UU get extra promotions while others only have higher base values or bonuses. That means that when upgrading the UU with extra promotion they KEEP their uniqueness while upgrading UU's with only increased base stats/bonuses they LOSE their uniqueness.
If it's not too much work it might be an idea to have each UU only get their extra stuff via unique promotions (that can't be taken on leveling, only get on creation).
For instance the Babylonian Bowman could get a promotion called Babylonian Bowman which grants the extra bonuses it gets, the Dog Soldier could get a Apache Dog Soldier promotion that gives it whatever stats you finally end up giving it. When upgrading these UU would keep their Promotions and thus their uniqueness.
Cheers
EldrinFal
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Sounds good. I think it will work out. The Clubmen are the very first melee unit, and it still takes several techs before Axe and Spear are available. And I don't think their presence removes the Thief/Rogue strategy either. It also makes sense to me that the same Clubmen who are able to swing big sticks, can then start to use stone axes and spears once those are available without the extra "skill" of Hunting.
As much as I'd like to use the Impi and Quechua, I haven't had the luck to get access to those cultures yet
Sounds good. I think it will work out. The Clubmen are the very first melee unit, and it still takes several techs before Axe and Spear are available. And I don't think their presence removes the Thief/Rogue strategy either. It also makes sense to me that the same Clubmen who are able to swing big sticks, can then start to use stone axes and spears once those are available without the extra "skill" of Hunting.
As much as I'd like to use the Impi and Quechua, I haven't had the luck to get access to those cultures yet
Yeh. The key on the thief/rogue strategy is not really the rogue's strength, it's the invisibility which means they don't get counter-attacked while being weak from their previous battle, so this doesn't really impact it.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Has the new costs to Assassin's den caused anyone else to stop using them?
In my antiquated v17 even the AI is not building them, neither am I. And I barely build any Thieves or Rogues either in this version. Whereas in the 3 preceding versions they were All Major Units. Even the Arsonist seems to have lost some of it's luster too.
Just another observation from the Heckler/Peanut Gallery section.
JosEPh
In my antiquated v17 even the AI is not building them, neither am I. And I barely build any Thieves or Rogues either in this version. Whereas in the 3 preceding versions they were All Major Units. Even the Arsonist seems to have lost some of it's luster too.
Just another observation from the Heckler/Peanut Gallery section.
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Has the new costs to Assassin's den caused anyone else to stop using them?
In my antiquated v17 even the AI is not building them, neither am I. And I barely build any Thieves or Rogues either in this version. Whereas in the 3 preceding versions they were All Major Units. Even the Arsonist seems to have lost some of it's luster too.
Just another observation from the Heckler/Peanut Gallery section.
JosEPh
I only build one building for each in my military city, although it is hard to get a specialised military city now. I don't actively use any of the units I just put them on border patrol. The main reason I build the buildings and units is to get them out of the cluttered queue. If they were a mod, I would just disable them.
I only build one building for each in my military city, although it is hard to get a specialised military city now. I don't actively use any of the units I just put them on border patrol. The main reason I build the buildings and units is to get them out of the cluttered queue. If they were a mod, I would just disable them.
I also only build them in one city, but I use my rogues extremely actively.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
This is What I was hoping others might confirm. If the AI isn't building them then it's broke. And if it's broke it's because of the New "costs".
JosEPh
Edit: As for Rangers, No I think they are fine. Stronger than Axe but weaker than Mace, Plus they don't have a bonus against melee to start.
No idea if the AI is building them or not. I'd need a suitable save game where the AI can build them but isn't to analyze to see if/why not (one wheer the player can will do because I can just turn the player over to the AI for one turn for it to do its analysis)...
EldrinFal
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You're looking at very different points in the tech timeline. And now that I've looked at the tech tree a bit more, I'm 100% positive that STR 8 is WAYY OP for that point in time. All other units on the tree around that area are around 4 Str. You don't get 8 STR units until Odysseus (as a heroic unit) or the units around Brozeworking. Even the chariots are only 4 str.
Rangers also start with +325% vs Animals. That isn't even with the Hunter promos!
Macemen are post-swordsmen. There are a lot of different units between them and the Ranger.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Except that there is no unit for the Ranger to upgrade to until the Sharpshooter. If you are going to reduce its strength then we need another unit in between.
EldrinFal
King
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I agree that there should be a unit in-between. Near the start of the classical age perhaps. Str 8-9 would be fine I think for this type of unit at this point on the tech tree.
Some sample names:
Pathfinder
Huntsman
Deerstalker
Beastmaster
Retrospect
Warlord
I can get javelineers before stone spearmen (it maybe at the sane time) stone spearman is strength 3 and javelineer is strength 4 both with identical bonuses I think. Stone spearman upgrades to Javelineer but yet the Javelineer is considerably cheaper to build. Around 25-30% cheaper off the top of my head.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Agree with the previous comment there... some more consideration for those troops could be made.
Also... one little tiny graphics niggle that really drives me up a wall (and maybe I'll have to just jump in and offer a fix ) - Tlenamacacs show a symbol for the spread of their religion that is completely different from the standard Naghualism symbol making them rather confusing.
Also... one little tiny graphics niggle that really drives me up a wall (and maybe I'll have to just jump in and offer a fix
) - Tlenamacacs show a symbol for the spread of their religion that is completely different from the standard Naghualism symbol making them rather confusing.
