best wonder

Lance if a tech a turn is not happening for you yet you may find this webpage of fascination

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/82209-Early-Landing-Games-Strategy-Guide

It is the most comprehensive post on trade and science that I know. Actually I would go as far as to call it a work of artistry. masterpiece and a bloody iliad. Enjoy :)
Ali - I'll check it out later, I'm interested. I have done my apprenticeship. I have studied all your moves. I am now ready to face my masters. :) But what is involved?
 
Do you mean charging Settlers and storing "work-time" in them for later use? I have done that (as explained by Gastrifitis) ...
That is a masterpiece and the ultimate piece on settlers/engineers. I recommend it to everyone.

Lance if a tech a turn is not happening for you yet you may find this webpage of fascination
http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/82209-Early-Landing-Games-Strategy-Guide
This is a much more comprehensive and longer masterpiece. It covers many areas of the game not just one.

Ali - I'll check it out later, I'm interested. I have done my apprenticeship. I have studied all your moves. I am now ready to face my masters. :) But what is involved?
You obviously are ready and far more ready than most of us were when we first joined the GOTMs. Many of us joined thinking we know the game well because we can beat it consistently at highest levels. Then we discovered how much we do not know and the difference between merely good and excellent.

Not much is involved in joining the games. You can read all about it by going to Civ2/GOTM off the menus near the top or via http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2/gotm
Download the game off the link provided in the game thread. Play according to the rules which are mostly common sesnse (cannot use cheat mode) but do disallow a few exploits (caravan rehoming for example). Keep your 1AD, 1000AD, and final save. Submit before the deadline. While purely optional, most of us keep notes on our games and post them in the spoiler thread dedicated to that game. This is a great source of fun and learning as it shows you how others evaluated and played situations identical to yours.
 
Ali I can't seem to find the download. I am getting the page not found message. Am I being stupid here?
 
I understand this much better! :)
But one thing is still a bit unclear to me: If I already got Gunpowder that makes Musketeers possible, and I continue to build Warriors, will not LW upgrade them to Musketeers instantly? That's what I expect...

No, units aquired after they are obsolete and after you have built LW do not upgrade to the latest technology but to what's next in the order of upgrades. A warrior becomes a phalanx, then a pikeman (if you have feudalism) and then a musketeer. I don't remember if they only upgrade when other units upgrade or upon any arbitrary tech discovery. I think it's the latter. I vaguely remember that in a couple of games I've had cavalry that ended up one or two steps behind in cavalry technology but that might just been a coincidence in that I got them late and automobile early.
 
I think one of the best benefits with the LW that's been overlooked in the discussion so far is that it eventually replaces your triremes and caravels with galleons and transports. Every upgrade has the potential to save you a boat or two and the switch over to galleons also reduces anger in their respective home cities.
 
Will piggyback on this post for comments...... as usual, its from a Deity level, with early Republic/Democracy emphasis with Raging Hordes. In a PD, you should chose about 2 or 3 early game wonders to skip, you will get the the other 25 or 26 with relative ease. Normally, skip the Great Wall, Great Library, and Lighthouse. If you are missing more wonders than this to the AI, then examine what is going on, and improve with experience. There are certain maps and/or crap random start locations that may affect this, but usually its because of non-commitment to trade and Republic WLTCD growing in very early game (like in the Monotheism to Theology era)




It depends a lot on the strategies you use (and the difficulty level too!). Here's my take (I often play with King difficulty, although I can handle Emperor if I want a tougher game):


Pyramids
--> Doesn't expire and it lets your cities grow faster. I normally don't bother with granaries, and prefer to expand fast and worry about city improvements later, so I usually don't build it, since I don't particularly need my cities to grow fast in the first stages of the game (then I would have to build temples, etc, when I could be building lots of settlers and, when necessary, military units). Nice but not my top priority. I can understand other people liking it, though.
Yes. But its hidden power is in finance and population. The key to power is population production. If you have to slow down growth, you slow pop, and hence power. This allows a longer warlike Monarchy before early Republic, or direct Democracy. In early game, its word one gold per village, and cannot be raised. Moreover, it gets the pop up from city founding, as it essentially doubles food after size one. It ensures a food reserve, which can be converted directly into Gold or Science when needed. The most serious side effect of Pyramids is in early Rep, when you cannot IRB from 1 to 60 shields, and allow cost 80 structures to be completed without waste. This is because the option to make Granaries is removed with Pyramids, and thus no way in early game to gain an 60 shield IRB.

If you do a fast Republic, then Pyramids are not nearly as important. I would take Colossus and Hanging Gardens if faced with the choice, and later just capture the Pyramids and sell the granaries if any.


Hanging Gardens
--> Not really a top priority with me (I'm more selective in the first part of the game, when resources are so precious and important to expand fast). Expires with Railroad, and it would be more interesting if it lasted longer. Would be more important at higher levels, when discontent becomes a real problem.
I used to think this too. But what you miss are the mathematics. I always speak about Diety level, of course lower levels this all changes. But at Diety, HG will pay for themselves many times over in a large Monarchy... and will rip the game open in early Republic. That happy citizen is crucial, and allows a lower Lux setting in all events, which means more Tax/Science, as well as larger populations.

The Courthouse can provide the happiness boost as HG is lost at RR, in a Democracy. But at RR, you are making one advance per turn anyway, and the crippling thing can be dropping from 100% Caravan value to 67% in both route and bonus.


Colossus
--> I usually didn't bother with it, but since I learned the SSC strategy, it becomes an important part of the development of that city. It expires, but it lasts long enough (till Flight). Very good one for SSC.
That is a step in the right direction. SSC is 2nd generation thinking, but does not harness the full power of the mighty Colossus at Diety representative governements before flight. The truth is that the SSC is not used at all, zero zip nada, for much of the mid game in a power democracy (PD). This is because science is set to Zero, though if you are above size 20, its usually good to use the specialists as Scientists, unless on that turn your deliveries filled the science bin for that advance.

There is nothing that can catapult an early game faster, and get an earlier landing with more margin for error, than Colossus, especially if you have to trade with yourself (use proper roads if on same land). No early game wonder can give more in return, if properly used and circumstances permit. EVEN IN MONARCHY. ESPECIALLY in Monarchy in (or very close) to your Capitol! And especially if combined with HG.

This is because you bump Lux to get Celebration, then drop it once the trade is added when the Monarchy Colossus/HG city gains Republic benefits (esp. the extra trade arrows). This is where your Monarchy/Republic/Democracy/Fundy (or even Communism with SoL) empire's main science and gold come from. In short, this combined with caravans obliterates the AI in most situations before Flight. By Flight, the game is long since over. I have never seen a non-OCC game which was remotely in doubt by Flight, when Colossus is properly used from the outset. And running a PF/PC (Power Fundy/Power Commie) civ is about at beneficial as is PD (Power Democracy). Check GOTM 018, for a PF example.


Lighthouse
--> I don't bother with it, unless I'm isolated on a small island with no land in sight, to send colonists without losing the trirreme.
In most games, yes. If you have AIs across the water on DIFFERENT land masses, then Lighthouse can rival Colossus for importance. Getting both means lights out for the AI. Game over, go thru the motions and collect a fast win. Make LH, and ideally use Marco Polo (MP) to prevent the AI from getting Nav/Inv for as long as possible, and use Triremes as a SuperWonder to deliver caravans for staggering... simply mind boggling... gold and science. Its not intuitive to realize that you get ahead by slowing Nav AND Inv. But that 200% bonus is worth it, esp. for different landmasses.

Less obvious is how you make your AI enemy into a massive trade partner. You dont slow them, you swamp them with the proper advances. You cripple their research choices, and give them what will make them good Republicans, and the reap the caravans which often max the gold and science even for garbage (undemanded) goods.


Great Library
--> Worth it, unless you are far ahead in technology (and then you probably will win no matter what), or unless you can easily get technologies some other way. If you are not the strongest (and you don't have the ultra hostile AIs that came with Civ2 MGE) you can probably trade technologies. And if you are the strongest then you can probably get them through conquest or stealing. So, very nice one, but I don't find it as extremely necessary as I used to. It lasts till Electricity, which is reasonable. In Civ1 it expired much earlier.
The main reason to get this yourself is to prevent the wrong civ from making it. You want the Purple to make it ideally, then it can help catapult your own science and cripple the AI's choices. This assumes you have become a fat monarchy or early republican, and are hence Supreme.

You will have an enormous science lead, and to maintain it, you will likely gift the Key Civ. Ergo, 2 civs will have the advances, and hence the owner of the GL gets early game wonder for free. You can get to Electricity fast, though, so if another gets it and you cannot capture the GL or help the Key Civ get it, then just pop into Electricity quickly, and obsolete if before gifting. Check the the game throttle control (Marco Polo) to see the best way to machinate.


Oracle
--> I don't bother with it, but like Hanging Gardens it depends on your strategy and the difficulty setting. It expires sooner than I would have liked (Theology).
What is important about this is for making SpaceShips. You want this to help make your Modules with low shield output villages in late game. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out how this is done ;).

Oracle (used properly)=Cheaper spaceships and often helps allow a one-turn spaceship on cheap budget.


Great Wall
--> Since it only doubles your defensive strength against barbarians (I usually don't play with strong barbarians) and expires relatively early (with Metallurgy) I wouldn't bother, unless you have a particularly troublesome neighbor and you really need to get them to sign peace agreements to give you time to improve your defenses. (When that happens, you can also bribe them with money or knowledge.) With hostile AIs it would be a bit more valuable.
This is nearly always not worth it, unless you have excess resources to divert. It is a real challenge to use this as the Spaceship builder instead of Oracle.


Sun Tzu's War Academy
--> Not bad. It doesn't expire until Mobile warfare and having veteran units is very important for combat. I really dislike building lots of barracks, and I usually don't, so this would be an alternative. Also, I prefer to conquer through bribing enemy cities, so it would be more important for a player who fights a lot. Very nice, but not essential.
True. Not essential. But combined with Leonardo, it will maintain Vetrancy on your own terms, espcially at sea. Blast Warriors with Ironclads and Destroyers, and you will not lose your ships in 1v1 ocean combat. Its a total crapshoot with AI vs Human equal ships in Civ 2, not even a coastal bonus like in Civ 4. This is because A/D are equal, hence no predatory bonus like say a Crusader hunting a target (Crusaders A/D is 5/1).


King Richard's Crusade
--> Like the Colossus, very important for SSC, to get it to build wonders quickly. I wouldn't bother when I don't use the SSC tactic. Expires with Industrialisation, sooner than I would have liked but still good enough to make it valuable.
Probably the least understood wonder of all early ones. Used properly (eg, fast growing city), it will exceed the AI deity "cheat" advantage, and provide about 900 gold equivalent improvements to boot. Read the KRC part of this.

That said, yes you can compensate for no KRC by empire size, so no its not essential in any form of government. If you are in small monarchy cities for centuries, dont make it. If you are early Republic, and get on track for your size 20 colossus city fast, make it.


Marco Polo's Embassy
--> Not absolutely necessary, but I appreciate it much more than I used to. The important thing is that it gives you access to other civs so that you can trade technologies with them. If you have MGE's hostile AIs it's not worth it, though. If you have Great library that's not as important.
This is the secret wonder which allows the human to control the entire game. This wonder makes the GL a thing to be AVOIDED if at all possible. The best use is to force the Purple civ to make the GL. I leave it as an exercise to find out how, and know why ;) :D.

With MP, you catapult everyone into researching choreographed advances to benefit the human. You can duplicate the effect with Diplomats, though you must locate the civs and will lose out on many opportunities, and much gold, not to mention lost resources used in making the Dips.

With this, you will find your targets, wipe out the Civs you desire (or make them Pets if restarts are on), and give the Purple a single size 1 village and all the techs except Fundy, so you can land your SS about the time Christ was ministering in the Holy Land.


Michelangelo's Chapel
--> Really important. Doesn't expire, and you save a lot of resources and upkeep by not having to build cathedrals in every city. Build it.
Nearly essential. I have lost the race on one occasion, and made Cathedrals until capturing it. The hidden advantage if this occurs is that 120 shield IRB stop, so a 14 shield city can make 160 shield improvements in 3 turns.

But absolutely, this is the key indicator that its time for Republic. Get on track, make the markets, and switch on an Oedo year as soon as ongoing wars allow.


Copernicus' Observatory
--> Really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise. Doesn't expire.
Cheaply doubles science output. But if science is set to 0, twice nothing is still nothing. Make it if at all possible, but not essential if for example you might lose MC or JSB, and assuming you are trading properly.


Magellan's Expedition
--> Not important for me. I usually don't pay much attention to seas, unless when I really need to. Doesn't expire.
Crucial for making the Ship SuperWonder, in water maps. With it, 15 ships can do the work of 22 to 25 ships, which means about 10 bonus shields per turn in saved Rep/Dem support costs. It also allows faster trade, esp. if you choose not to ship chain. The AI can hunt down your ships easier if they get it. If you lose this, just go capture it.


Shakespeare's Theatre
--> Really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise, although it's kind of nice to have a big city to make lots of military units if you need to wage a limited war in democracy. Doesn't expire.
Can be very important in Late Game Democracies, as well as early game Republics. The problem with it is where the effects are applied. As in JSB, its Line 5 of happiness computation. Ergo, putting 40 Nukes or Bombers in this village will erase the happy citizens before the ST affects are applied. Ergo no celebrations. So its essential to get this city to full size, including Supermarket food use, before loading this city down with units which are away, or Perm Unhappy (bombers, eg).


Leonardo's Workshop

--> Really nice, to save a lot of time and resources to update your military units, particularly if you have a big civilization. Till Automobile.
The least important aspect of Leo is usually Military (again, assuming a Deity warlike PD). This is because the effect of Leo is easily duplicated. Most mil units are not too far from villages, and you just disband and IRB them, so its a matter of gold. And of course, gold flows like a river in a PD.

The real value is in instant upgrade of your 80+ Settlers to Engineers, your caravans to freight (the bonus), and diplomats to spies.

The Military value is actually naval. Ships can be on station many turns from home, and instant upgrade in place is great, esp. for trade when Caravels go to Galleons. Land units can simply disband are reconstruct with IRB in a nearby city or their host city. Upgrade of faraway units can be of help, though Veterancy is lost. This can spell disaster in certain situation, even Naval (e.g., Vet Ironclad becomes non-vet Destroyer). With SunTzu this is better for military units, because in Democracies you don't normally make non vet Mil units.


J. S. Bach's Cathedral
--> Really important, like Michelangelo's Chapel. A cathedral makes more citizens content, but you can't duplicate the effect of this wonder. Only affects cities in the same continent, so be careful with that. Obviously it's not as useful if there are no big continents.
Essential for waging brutal war in Democracy. Gives 2 tithes per city in Fundy. Effect is same as Shakespeare (line 5 of happiness calc), but for malcontent 2 citizens. You can make full size cities without Coliseums. You can take all villages directly to size 8 in as few as 6 turns by celebrating from a Joined size 3.

JSB is the most valuable in the game, since Gold cannot buy its effects any other way. Gold can make Cathedrals, Science, Granaries, etc. but not fix 2 malcontents on Line 5 after all other efforts have failed. This allows a Democracy to fight in the field, and still grow to full size. If you cannot build it (Ive never had such a game, but it could happen), then use Marco Polo to help ensure it is built nearby, and go butcher whoever made it and take it by force. Its yours. Not theirs! :mad:


Isaac Newton's College
--> Like the Observatory, it's really important for SSC. Not as important otherwise.
Best effect is for helping get 3 or 4 late game advances per turn, as well as getting FT's in some competitive games. Much of the mid game, science is set to Zero, so its effect is not as profound as a classic full time SSC.


Adam Smith's Trading Co.
--> Very nice for a large civilization. Saves lots of money.
Not a high priority, and if its lost to get Darwin, for example, just go capture it. The AI built it for you.


Darwin's Voyage
--> Nice, of course, but not absolutely necessary. You can normally get your techs in other ways.
This is the key to minimizing the effect of RR on your trade. Hit RR, stop deliveries of now crippled Caravans, build Darwin the next turn, and get Corporation. Then resume deliveries with your newly upgraded Freight (Leo's) which have their 50% trade bonus.


Statue of Liberty
--> It's a pity you don't get access to this one sooner, because getting all governments earlier would be very good. More useful if you like changing governments often, of course, like people who change from democracy to fundamentalism when they go to war. Me, I prefer democracy, to generate lots of cash and science. With money, you can fight effectively even in democracy. Avoiding anarchy when you change government or when your democracy falls is cool too.
Normally not needed by humans, and no damage is caused by AIs making this.


Eiffel Tower
--> Nice, but not essential. Depends on how much you care about what other civs think of you.
Never necessary, and harmless in the hands of the AI.


Women's Suffrage
--> Very good for democracies (or republics), to relax the penalties for military units outside the city. By this stage, you often can afford to build wonders easily, so go for it. If you prefer other governments you don't need it that much, obviously.
This completely eliminates Unhappiness Away in Republics, and reduces the effect from 2 to 1 citizen in Democracy. The bad thing about it is that at this point in the game many villages can make 10 or 20 shields per turn, yet you will have no Police Stations


Hoover Dam

--> Very good if you build lots of factories. I normally don't bother with many factories, because by this time my empire is usually quite big and I don't really need it. If you are not clearly dominant at this stage it's really worth it, though.
Very powerful wonder. Its effect is expensive and enormous, in a PD, because of large cities. Most cities cannot make a clean Hydro plant, but this wonder instantly gives every city one. It means a Factory makes double shields, not just 50% more. But its main immediate value to a PD is the pollution benefit, since you dont make factories in most villages until very late.


Manhattan Project
--> Don't like building this. If I'm dominant I don't need nukes, and if I'm not... well, let's say the AIs are often a bit free about using nukes against you if they don't like you.
Totally harmless since no AI can make this against a good PD. The only one that "could" is the Purple, who have a single size 1 village. They will not make wonders with a single small city. If they tried, your Pet Control (the spy) just destroys the production.


United Nations
--> Very nice. By this stage I can easily build wonders, and this is a good one. Embassies plus forcing other civs to sign peace.
Democracies want total, nonstop war in late game. So UN makes things more difficult. The embassy effect is duplicated with the free work of spies.


Apollo Program
--> It doesn't matter who builds it, and it starts the space race. If you are at an advantage and you want to win by spaceship, you need to build it yourself.
If you must win by SS, then this is hands down the most important wonder in Civ 2. if its never built, you can never win by SS. But, if an AI makes it, that would be great. In a PD, I've never seen this, since no AI except purple is anywhere near the techs needed to make it.


SETI Program
--> Really good to speed science in the last part of the game. Of course, there are not many technologies left at that stage, but there are some. Very nice for discovering them fast without a lot of expense in research centers.
In late game, the logjams are the build queues of cities. This allows RL's to be "built" with no build queue, not to mention no shield cost or maint, It allows one to push science and gain another advance per turn in many cases. Typically you can make 3 advances per turn at this point, and with it can make 4.


Cure for Cancer
--> Like Hanging gardens but without expiring. Nice. I usually build it (but by this stage I'm usually dominant, so I can afford it). I imagine than in tougher difficulty settings it becomes more important, like all happiness-related wonders.
Could allow lowering Lux by 10%. Allows instant size 3 late game celebrating villages to be founded.
 
Not sure where to post this, but as I am hoping to get the Hoover Dam maybe this will allow my question: "Why can't I build a Power Plant in some of my cities?" Is there some kind of limit?
 
Not sure where to post this, but as I am hoping to get the Hoover Dam maybe this will allow my question: "Why can't I build a Power Plant in some of my cities?" Is there some kind of limit?

Not entirely sure beacause I rarely proceed this path, but I think you need a factory to be able to build a power plant.
 
A city only benefits from a single building in the "power plant" class, by which I mean the Power Plant, Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant, and Solar plant. If you have more than 1, you will only get the benefits from one of them. If you have Hoover Dam, all your cities already have a hydro plant, so there is no reason (according to the game's logic) for you to build a power or nuclear plant. Those options are, therefore, not available. You can still build a solar plant, because you may need the extra pollution control it provides.

Also, you need to have either a factory or Manufacturing plant in order to get any benefit from a power plant. Hence, the option to build any powerplant is hidden until you have the requisite building (in the same way you can't build a bank unless you have a marketplace already).
 
I had won on deity several times in the past but it wasn't fun in my book, and it was a victory by a hair's breadth.
After that, I always preferred relaxing games on king difficulty but I'm slowly moving towards deity again, with more and more willingness to micromanage and ICS strategy.
Mostly, I liked the development phase of civ, not necessarily the moment of victory, by whatever means.
I like building railroads, transforming terrain, constructing every improvement in the cities, managing growth so it's equal in all cities, maintaining peace etc.

These days however I'm more and more inclined towards early landing as the definite benchmark of a powerful civilization.
That said, Leo must be the best wonder, if only for the sheer power to instantly upgrade my 50+ settlers to engineers and triremes to caravels and onwards.
I rush factories quite early too so Hoover is probably the second most important wonder to me.
As for the early game (ancient times) I normally only build Colossus, occasionally HG and very occasionally Pyramids. Marco is a must for techs and maps, then Mike and Bach for unhappiness control and Mag for ship movement.

Recently however, I've found out that the game at king is boring when all the 'advanced' methods are applied and the AI doesn't even have the republic by the time my 40+ freights are waiting to be delivered.
I suppose the lower the difficulty, the less important certain buildings and wonders become.
Difficulty is the single factor that impacts the importance of wonders most.
 
there is a lot of powerfull wonders it hard for me to really selct a most powerfull.

but for me the pyramids always stands out. it cost 3x times a granary and gives granary in all cities. its available after on tech research and last the entire game

it might not be powerful if you are super growing with republic early on in game. but it sure is a nice safety net and a cheap one. and even before getting republic you should have a couple of cities making the investment into pyramids already paid back

but generally i go for anything that has a huge (continent og entire civ) effect and does not get obsoleted
 
All these exploits make me shake my head. I mean, it's not 'cheating', since the game allows it, but I wonder if it's fun to play that way? To launch at zero A.D. when the AI have a single village? Different strokes, etc. For my upcoming scenario, I will disable Caravans and Freights to get rid of the gamey tedium/ridiculousness that they induce (imo). I will leave the SSC strategy in the game, but place Isaac's and Copernicus on different sides of the tech tree, so that it takes some serious effort to get both in the same city. I'm debating disabling Leonardo's as well. Its effect is a bit too much imo, even with no Caravans to upgrade.

Ofc trading is the most complex mechanic in Civ II, and with its removal much depth will be lost. I could make trade units into ships I suppose, meaning that they couldn't be instantly transported. But the issue remains that either it's still worth it to make them, in which case that will be *all* you'll do, or it won't be, in which case you'll never build them. Imo they cannot be properly balanced, but I will do some tests and see.

A bit off-topic for this thread... In the old days, before reading about all these tricks, I never played a game without building the Pyramids. The Great Library was a close second, before I learned of the SSC trick. I kinda wish I'd never read these advanced strategies. They make playing the game the old (and I dare say intended) way into a suboptimal slog, while otoh their use breaks all suspension of disbelief, since you're no longer simulating history when you discover 4 techs per turn in 200 A.D. When I play Civ, I want to feel like an Emperor, not like a truck-driver. :p
 
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