Ghengis as an economic powerhouse?

[badger_md]

I just finished a spaceship victory on turn 265 as Ghengis on Immortal level.

My next quickest spaceship victory had been 298 turns.

Some of the improvement is obviously related to slowly honing my strategy over time, but a lot of it came from the incredible production boost you get with Ghengis. The boost comes VERY early in the game, which makes it even better.

I am, of course, talking about the extra production with the pasture. It may not seem like a big deal, but I have found it to be a very decisive advantage. I did not build a single ram or horse archer in that game, so the UU played no role in improving my launch time.

Now, certainly, the degree of friendliness and AI willingness to sign RA were cruicial in that game for me. I do believe that the fact that I was in the corner of the map and therefore not close to many civs made a big difference in how the AI viewed me.

It seems like at this point for me, getting Ghengis in the corner of the map is a HUGE advantage over any of the other civs.

Curious if others have noticed this?

[nefloyd]

I think you mean Attila

[Yantar]

Huns for production? I'd rather go Russia.
I mean, pasture bonus applies to Horses, Cows and Sheep, available from early on, and thus powerful... for early uses, like, uh, rushing neighbors. If You plan on going spaceship, then as Russia you start without an extra tech (who cares), but get extra prod from horses, iron, coal, uranium, aluminium (less common, but five of them), double quantity for the sake of trading, and more useful (not too much, but still) UU and UB that way. And still, it's not like averybody always uses Russia just for extra production. I don't see any advantage.

[badger_md]

I'm sorry, I meant Attila, of course (I got my scourges mixed up )

I know that Russia SEEMS like it would also be good, but in practice the fact that cows and sheep get the bonus makes Attila much better in my experience (it really triples the bonus compared to Russia.)

The resource bonus for other resoruces for Russia other then horses are not available right away and therefore not nearly as good.

Arabia's double oil resources is a fantastic bonus, for example, but due to the fact it occurs so late in the game, its really not as much of a game changer as the extra hammer for pasture.

I'm not sure what level others play on, but the far better play at immortal level early on is quickly to expand to claim resoures rather then early attack. An early attack means that you are NOT connecting resources early and selling them and you are also NOT endearing yourself to other civs that you need to sign RA with.

For warmongering, a better play is to just to not sign a peace treaty with your nearest neighbor that will invariably DOW you around turn 70 or so and take care of them later when you get artillery. That way you don't lose any diplomatic cheese with the other AIs for DOWing on an AI yourself.

[PhilBowles]

Originally Posted by badger_md

I'm sorry, I meant Attila, of course (I got my scourges mixed up )

I know that Russia SEEMS like it would also be good, but in practice the fact that cows and sheep get the bonus makes Attila much better in my experience (it really triples the bonus compared to Russia.)

The resource bonus for other resoruces for Russia other then horses are not available right away and therefore not nearly as good.

Russia has the advantage that you don't need a Worker to get the bonus, so it works straight away for newly-founded cities. But to my mind the key advantage is that Russia allows you to build formidable production cities, which the Huns really can't. Pasture tiles are the best 'general' land tiles - they give food and production, so you can have good production while feeding your citizens. But a more specialised Russian city with food buildings and the odd wheat here and there can give you a far superior production-specialised city only slightly later in the game, and with a bonus that works for most later strategic resources.

With Attila, the bonus is to some extent too early to really help you going down this path - you simply have populations that are too small to make use of it before Russia's ability will kick in. And so you don't have that strong an early hammer boost relatively speaking. Also, pastures don't benefit from later-game production bonuses the way mines do (from recollection).

[GhostSalsa]

Originally Posted by PhilBowles

Also, pastures don't benefit from later-game production bonuses the way mines do (from recollection).

No, but they do power up with one extra food at Fertilizer

I find the Atilla pasture bonus attractive. to have cow tiles (with stables) as productive as early mines is super for a small city. Generally, I like pasture tiles and work them all-game. The problem is having enough to warrant a stables.

In fact Atilla doesn't seem seeded to favor pastures for starting, or horsies. I rolled Atilla 4 times and wasn't getting three-pasture starts for my capital; so I TMBAWH

I'll give him another try at some point.

[BobDole]

A couple production is nice, but I wouldn't say it's gonna make you a powerhouse, nor will it really matter later in the game.....

[Hammer Rabbi]

i just rolled an Inca game last night, normal resources, and i got 5 sheep hills for my 1st city and another 4 in the surrounding areas where a 2nd and 3rd city would go. when i teched AH i also got 1 horse tile. one of the best starts and didnt rely on any UA for it. it was a good start but not a powerhouse anything.

when i play attila i really like to settle on the horses. i usually get at least one in sight to beeline and settle on by turn 2 at the latest. instant early production city for faster monument/scout/worker is nice but not long-term for a science vic.

[RealHuhn]

Originally Posted by Hammer Rabbi

i just rolled an Inca game last night, normal resources, and i got 5 sheep hills for my 1st city and another 4 in the surrounding areas where a 2nd and 3rd city would go. when i teched AH i also got 1 horse tile. one of the best starts and didnt rely on any UA for it. it was a good start but not a powerhouse anything.

when i play attila i really like to settle on the horses. i usually get at least one in sight to beeline and settle on by turn 2 at the latest. instant early production city for faster monument/scout/worker is nice but not long-term for a science vic.

How do you settle your capital on horses? Explain please

Anyway, Russia is better. You get about the same production boost but, the major advantage here, you can sell more strategic resources for cash.
That's a huge economic boost in the early game.

[hudders]

Originally Posted by RealHuhn

How do you settle your capital on horses? Explain please

Attila starts with Animal Husbandry and therefore can see horses from the very beginning.

[Cyberian]

Originally Posted by RealHuhn

How do you settle your capital on horses? Explain please

Anyway, Russia is better. You get about the same production boost but, the major advantage here, you can sell more strategic resources for cash.
That's a huge economic boost in the early game.

Attila gets Animal Husbandry for free. So he sees those Horses right from the start. Have to agree on the Russian Bazaar thing though. Selling stuff is just OP.
I think Attila should be used as the early warmonger using his horse archer and battering ram. Raze some cities for more space to expand. And maybe capture a capital with some nice wonders inside.

[RealHuhn]

Originally Posted by hudders

Attila starts with Animal Husbandry and therefore can see horses from the very beginning.

Oh, right. Fail.