[BNW 1.0.3.279] 2 RA bugs not giving beakers

Was playing as babylon and noticed 2 cases where RA's dont give beakers.

Case 1 happened when the RA when expiring in 1 turn and the currently researched tech was done in 1 turn. What happened was the next tech in the queue did not have any extra beakers from the RA.

Case 2 happened when 3 RA's finished at the same time. They only provided the beaker equivalent of 1 RA. Considering the 3 Civs that the RA was with were the top 3 score leaders in a diety game (yes if Alexander / Montezuma / Shaka is not in a game civs can actually stay friends with eachother), I doubt that their science output was just low. Think the tech was electricty and the 3 RA's gave about 50-60% of research so went from like 11 turns to 5. (No porcelain tower, no Scientific Revolution)

Anyone else can confirm this?

I suspect these are consequences of the beaker overflow fix in the October patch:

Fixed tech overflow bug that could allow a user to get free tech each turn for multiple turns. The size of the maximum allowable science overflow is now set at 5 turns of science (about the same as a unmodified research agreement) OR the unmodified cost of the last tech researched, whichever is larger. AI also understands this adjustment.

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In the case of mutliple RAs maturing on the same turn, the first RA presumably maxed out your beakers and the beakers from the others were discarded as excess overflow. Lesson: Don't sign multiple RAs on the same turn. Stagger them at least 1 turn apart. Note: Same applies to bulbing Great Scientists -- don't do mass bulbs on the same turn.

As for your first issue, that does sound bugged, but is probably a consequence of the tech being completed on the same turn, since I haven't had that situation and haven't seen this in other situations. It seems that lesson on that one is that you should be make sure you have a tech with at least 2 turns left when the RA matures. That's irritating micromanagement, but until that gets fixed ....

Browd said:

I suspect these are consequences of the beaker overflow fix in the October patch:


In the case of mutliple RAs maturing on the same turn, the first RA presumably maxed out your beakers and the beakers from the others were discarded as excess overflow. Lesson: Don't sign multiple RAs on the same turn. Stagger them at least 1 turn apart. Note: Same applies to bulbing Great Scientists -- don't do mass bulbs on the same turn.

As for your first issue, that does sound bugged, but is probably a consequence of the tech being completed on the same turn, since I haven't had that situation and haven't seen this in other situations. It seems that lesson on that one is that you should be make sure you have a tech with at least 2 turns left when the RA matures. That's irritating micromanagement, but until that gets fixed ....

Click to expand...

I still dont quite get the fix tho. 5 turns of excess beakers? GS gives you 8 turns of beakers. If the overflow means you cant pop 5 free techs in 1 turn, as I understood it. (Ex: beeline to some late tech leave early techs. Queue up a bunch of 1/2 turn techs and pop a GS to get 6+ techs for free. I thought the fix just made 5 the most free tech you can get in 1 turn?

Should I not atleast have fully finished Electricity off the 3 RA's? 5 turns of science is what RA gives at the cap? And 7.5 - 10 with porcelain tower - Rationalism Finisher?

So basically going over the bulbed tech the max overflow is 5 turns. So you should not use your GS to bulb a cheap tech. As that can potetially waste alot of beakers. Yes so based on that the 3 RA's should of atleast completed electricity fully and only put 5 turns max into Radio.


I will try to reproduce the same turn tech research/RA issue some more.

On GS bulbing, you still get the completed tech from the GS bulb plus 5 more turns of overflow (or cost of completed tech). Yoiu do not get 5 techs.

Also, RAs are not nearly as lucrative as your numbers would imply. Since we're talking BNW, the base output of an RA (before Porcelain Tower and Scientific Revolution) will equal 5 turns of the average beaker generation rate of the RA partner with the lower beaker generation rate over the 30 turns of the RA.

RA beakers = n% * min(a, b)/3,

where

a = sum of your beakers over term of RA (excluding beakers from GS bulbs and other RAs)

b = sum of your RA partner's beakers over the term of the RA length (also excluding beakers from GS bulbs and other RAs)

n% = RA modifier % (base 50% + 25% from Scientific Revolution + 25% from Porcelain Tower)

For example, if a = 6,000 beakers (average of 200 beakers/turn) and b = 3,000 beakers (average of 100 beakers/turn), the base RA output (without Porcelain Tower or Scientific Revolution) for both RA partners would be 500 beakers, which represents 5 turns of average beaker production for your RA partner but only 2-1/2 turns of average beaker production for you.

And in each case, assuming your beakers per turn rose over the term of the RA, the RA output will be less (perhaps far less) than 2-1/2 turns of your current beaker per turn run-rate.

Still cant imagine an AI ahead 50-100% in score would have lower beaker production than you on diety.