[Solo Game] Bot beat me to a wonder after reloading a save and speeding production.

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Kitsunami

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
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So I have a marathon game going, and was building Hagia Sophia. About 60 turns total in my capital, and a bot beat me by one turn. This was surprising, the bot beating me by a single turn in a ~2000 turn game. But no big deal, I had a save about 19 turns back. So I loaded it and switched to production focus, shaved off 5 turns. Shoulda been the end of it.

Except the bot beat me by a single turn yet again. This was "in a far away land". I changed nothing in my interaction with the bots. So how exactly did it know I sped my production and still beat me? Are there any ways to to outsmart it?

This is on prince difficulty, marathon pace, and no mods or expansions.
 
1. It may not have the same bot
2. It may have changed its production priority independently
3. 60 turns is a lot, many things can happen during that time
4. All wonders are dicey to build, there's no way to know if someone will finish before or after you unless you plant a spy in their city which will tell you exactly what they are building
 
There was a thread here about a month ago regarding the AIs ability to beat you to a wonder by a turn. It turns out that you are not crazy - the AI can see without seeing that you are about to complete a wonder and reprioritze accordingly. Many of us have reloaded an old save, made adjustments, and still gotten beat by one turn. I apologize that I couldn't find the thread, but some folks with good coding skills outlined how the AI works in this respect. It doesn't completely cheat (i.e. Get free wonders, have access to your city screens, etc.). But, if the AI is already constructing a wonder, they will frequently switch away from it for awhile when it only has one turn remaining and then switch back when it uses its spidey senses to tell that you are about to build the wonder.

I just thought you might appreciate knowing you aren't crazy. The AI does have to put the same number of hammers in as you, so don't think they get something for nothing.
 
I had a game recently with a gorgeous Petra spot, but Poland beat me by about 3 turns. I reloaded about 35 turns back, changed a bunch of priorities and shaved off 5 turns, and he beat me by 1 turn. I reloaded AGAIN and he finished it about 15 turns earlier that time. I think there's a lot of randomness to it.

But this story has a happy ending. I started from turn 0, changed my strategy entirely to rush Petra, and beat that evil Casimir to it! Then I realized flood plains didn't count, and 8-10 of my tiles weren't affected, but hey, I had 2 sheep, 6 or 7 hills, and iron, so it wasn't so bad.
 
When this happens and I suspect shenanigans on AI's part to make me waste my time for nothing, I pray to the heavens to summon Great Engineers!
 
beetle said:
I am sure you are talking about Wonders being completed ONE TURN before you. I actually came away from that thread less convinced that something foul is afoot...
Click to expand...

So did I. I don't know if the previous post reflected that, but somehow after reading the ins and outs of AI wonder construction, I feel like the AI is playing the game, not cheating. Building a wonder is taking the risk that you will never get anything in return. (Fail gold is stupid. Don't even go there. They just found in beta testing that it would keep you from rage quitting. And no I don't know that for a fact. :p )

The higher the level the higher the risk. I like the way wonders are handled. The game gets old when it all goes your way.
 
Primacide said:
The higher the level the higher the risk. I like the way wonders are handled. The game gets old when it all goes your way.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth! I do like the risk factor in it as well.

Although some of the wonders is quite questionable like great library, its practically unheard for a human to build one.
 
Well, with gl in particular, you could make a case that the AIs advantages at the very beginning of the game are tantamount to a cheat. With free techs, starting workers (and settler on high levels), and a production discount, we lowly humans stand basically zero chance of the gl on mid to high difficulties. I always get a kick out of noting the turn the gl is built on deity. It seems like turn 20-25 and that wonder is gone!
 
Primacide said:
There was a thread here about a month ago regarding the AIs ability to beat you to a wonder by a turn. It turns out that you are not crazy - the AI can see without seeing that you are about to complete a wonder and reprioritze accordingly. Many of us have reloaded an old save, made adjustments, and still gotten beat by one turn. I apologize that I couldn't find the thread, but some folks with good coding skills outlined how the AI works in this respect. It doesn't completely cheat (i.e. Get free wonders, have access to your city screens, etc.). But, if the AI is already constructing a wonder, they will frequently switch away from it for awhile when it only has one turn remaining and then switch back when it uses its spidey senses to tell that you are about to build the wonder.
Click to expand...

Bold part:
The AI doesn't do that. If you're talking about the thread Beetle linked I'm the only one with knowledge of C++ that has talked in it and this is not what I said in it.
If it's another thread you'd need to link it.

The only time (that I know of) the AI look at what wonder other civs are making is when deciding which wonder to build and... it decreases the likelihood.

I got a bit angry at the end of that thread because if someone is claiming something, feelings, confirmation bias and anecdotes are not enough to be convincing. Until there is a reasonable proof of fool play, the default position is to think there is none and I personally could not find it.

The fact is sometimes when I reload after losing a wonder to 1 turn... I get it.

Primacide said:
Well, with gl in particular, you could make a case that the AIs advantages at the very beginning of the game are tantamount to a cheat. With free techs, starting workers (and settler on high levels), and a production discount, we lowly humans stand basically zero chance of the gl on mid to high difficulties. I always get a kick out of noting the turn the gl is built on deity. It seems like turn 20-25 and that wonder is gone!
Click to expand...

Writing is a high priority tech for the AI and it starts with free Pottery so it will often get writing in the first 10 turns. It then procedes in building the GL in its normal cycle and its a well valued wonder by the AI. This usually means the Deity AI gets GL between 30 and 35.
 
I always assumed that if you had an embassy with a civ they could see your next wonder and completion time and therefore could adjust their own building plan (much as you can with them) - is that not the case?
 
A human player can see through the FOW yes. The AI doesn't "see" things... the perception of the AI are just loops through tiles and afaik the AI has no routines to check for the presence of wonder graphics.

The AI has "access" to everything you do. It's trivial to just code something that looks through other civs production queues. Making the kind of cheat people are thinking about is easy. The AI can access those values. But it is not programmed to do so.
 
Sorry I said embassy but meant spy and the ability to view a city with one in place.

In cases where I've been beaten to a wonder by one turn I've just assumed they have a spy in my city and can see when I will complete a wonder.
 
I actually attempt great library often specifically because I expect to get beaten to the punch.

It's like building a settler and getting growth at the same time because I get 100% of the hammers as gold. And I usually wait to pay gold for my first settler anyway.
 
Finnagain said:
I actually attempt great library often specifically because I expect to get beaten to the punch.

It's like building a settler and getting growth at the same time because I get 100% of the hammers as gold. And I usually wait to pay gold for my first settler anyway.
Click to expand...

Not too shabby a strategy. I just tried the same thing in BE now.
 
Here's a suggestion : do not allow more than X wonders in a city.
I've already reduced it to a max of 7 wonders per city. I'm also done with all the wonder whoring.
I would have lowered it more, but that would make the French UA useless.
And there are 7 themed wonders in the game.
 
Finnagain said:
I actually attempt great library often specifically because I expect to get beaten to the punch.

It's like building a settler and getting growth at the same time because I get 100% of the hammers as gold. And I usually wait to pay gold for my first settler anyway.
Click to expand...

Until you realize the gold/hammer ratio for settlers is equal to 5 while the gold/hammer ratio for the wonder is 1.
 
Acken, it is a bad deal, yes. But think of it as an opportunity cost. You get to rush out a settler while still growing your population.
 
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