DEITY CHALLENGE - aiming for sub 200T victory

Congratulations IronfighterXXX ... you did it buddy!! I do not have the skill nor patience to even attempt such a feat :) !!
 
Congrats man!!! that's really incredible, and the terrain you had was quite good, with mountains to isolate yourself from potential warmongers and more importantly observatories.

I wonder if freedom Korea could be as good.
 
With the latest patch it gonna be a little bit harder.

Reloading for a free culture ruin is gonna be a priority whatever the game you want excepted GOTMs.
 
A lot harder, I think. The three key Tradition policies (Legalism, Landed Elite, Monarchy) will now be delayed by 10-20 turns. That's going to overall slow your growth, culture, gold, and maybe even run you into happiness problems if you didn't get Monarchy in time (or force you to delay Landed Elite for the sake of dealing with happiness).
 
SAINTDANE said:
A lot harder, I think. The three key Tradition policies (Legalism, Landed Elite, Monarchy) will now be delayed by 10-20 turns. That's going to overall slow your growth, culture, gold, and maybe even run you into happiness problems if you didn't get Monarchy in time (or force you to delay Landed Elite for the sake of dealing with happiness).
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That depends upon weather he was already building a Monument in the capital or not, if he already was, then those policies are indeed delayed. If he wasn't building the Monument though he can now hand build it to make up the time. It will off course mean that Legalism will provide no benefit to the capital until the Classical era just like how the required prereq to Legalism itself provides no real value until later on when the unit maintenance cost starts to matter more.
 
I think if you need to defend yourself quick and when there's limited happiness resources around for 4 cities you could go for the 2 city nc. The 4 city nc, I would go for, I guess, only when there's enough happiness resources around and when there's not that many barbarians or enemies around.
 
If your start is excellent with a lot of production (salts, many wheats etc) I suggest 4cities NC. If your start is food focused or weak go for 2 city. The idea is that faster cities is always good but more cities increase NC cost and pumping 4 settlers on a low pop low prod city is painful, letting the city grow while going for 2NC can help.

Then you have to factor the ease of happiness (which is often linked to how good your worker steal is going).

3 city NC is also the popular happy middleground for tradition.
 
i havent had a great game yet where i didnt at least get 4 cities before NC.

And its the right thing to do!
Other advice is just wrong.

waiting for nc to be completed means. waiting till you reasearched philo AND cap built nc - thats like turn 60 if not lot later with low prod.

And then build settler and move em and plant - and then they r size 1 - nono ..
One need EXPAND FAST AND EARLY.

Cities need time to develop themself, the earlier the plant the faster they can develop.

early nc gets viable with a fast gl jump - but thats unlickly to happen at deity
 
tommynt said:
i havent had a great game yet where i didnt at least get 4 cities before NC.

And its the right thing to do!
Other advice is just wrong.

waiting for nc to be completed means. waiting till you reasearched philo AND cap built nc - thats like turn 60 if not lot later with low prod.

And then build settler and move em and plant - and then they r size 1 - nono ..
One need EXPAND FAST AND EARLY.

Cities need time to develop themself, the earlier the plant the faster they can develop.

early nc gets viable with a fast gl jump - but thats unlickly to happen at deity
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I used to think I was failing because I was getting my NC so late compared to some of the times people posted.

What you have to calculate is how much cumulative science will you have before T200. Having +50% early nets only a small total science gain compared to having 2 cities with 20-30 extra turns of development. Even t120 I think you get more science cumulative by having 4 cities than you would at t120 with 2 city NC.
 
tommynt said:
i havent had a great game yet where i didnt at least get 4 cities before NC.
Click to expand...

I agree with your comment that it is always better to have 4 cities going and a later NC but I have a hard time understanding that every single Deity game you have ever played you have never had a problem getting up 4 cities. This Deity Challenge #10 along with some other Deity Challenges I have had a problem with very close Civ's and not much room to squeeze in 4 cities without having other issues. Perhaps you only mean when you go 4 city Tradition but that does not pertain to Honor/Liberty?

Edit:Oh ok I must of misread this statement. I guess what you are saying is that all great games get 4 city's for sure first before the NC and other games that are not so great get other things.
 
Fluphen Azine said:
I agree with your comment that it is always better to have 4 cities going and a later NC but I have a hard time understanding that every single Deity game you have ever played you have never had a problem getting up 4 cities. This Deity Challenge #10 along with some other Deity Challenges I have had a problem with very close Civ's and not much room to squeeze in 4 cities without having other issues. Perhaps you only mean when you go 4 city Tradition but that does not pertain to Honor/Liberty?
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I was thinking he didn't say every game, he said great games, but then I remembered it was TommyNT and probably all his games are great games :eek:
 
tommynt said:
And its the right thing to do!
Other advice is just wrong.
Click to expand...

Well, nothing is true because someone said so.

I remember some undisputed truths on this forum- you should plant your GSs until ST, order is always better then freedom in SV - this were truths until someone actually tested it.

Usually I go 3 cities NC (with rush bought library in last) + 2 more , in this sub 200 particular game seeing how happiness could be a problem I went 2 cities NC (54 turn) + immediately bought settler in second city (instead of library in third city) and built another one in cap (cap was big so it took only few turns) so I had 4 cities with NC about 65 turn.

So actually a lot of depends on individual game - in this case I think 2 cities NC was a good choice.

I posted my start save so if someone think 4 cities NC is always better easy can prove that I am wrong ;)
 
IronfighterXXX said:
I posted my start save so if someone think 4 cities NC is always better easy can prove that I am wrong ;)
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Sadly, I don't think it will be done. The post-patch slowdown of Tradition probably means your achievement will likely not be duplicated, so I'm glad you pulled it off in time.

These threads do have some pretty strong opinions regarding NC and timing. Personally, I don't usually get mine as early as most, but i play more of a "likelihood of winning" strategy rather than "how fast can I win" strategy, but that's not the point of this thread.
 
IronfighterXXX said:
Well, nothing is true because someone said so.

I remember some undisputed truths on this forum- you should plant your GSs until ST, order is always better then freedom in SV - this were truths until someone actually tested it.

Usually I go 3 cities NC (with rush bought library in last) + 2 more , in this sub 200 particular game seeing how happiness could be a problem I went 2 cities NC (54 turn) + immediately bought settler in second city (instead of library in third city) and built another one in cap (cap was big so it took only few turns) so I had 4 cities with NC about 65 turn.

So actually a lot of depends on individual game - in this case I think 2 cities NC was a good choice.

I posted my start save so if someone think 4 cities NC is always better easy can prove that I am wrong ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, you said it - all depends on the individual game. But, in the realm of theory crafting, i lean towards tommy's assessment. With every one of the 4 cities starting massive growth before turn 40, with the help of couple of maritime alliances, you are looking at slightly better results than taking a forced shortcut (forced by happiness, probably) and getting 2 more cities after NC. Four cities is four cities. More culture, more faith, more units. More luxuries/strategics. More time to improve them. Maybe more trade routes your way. Besides, his recent turn 194 Inca science win isn't exactly such that it prohibits to speak from position of experience.
 
Moriarte said:
Yes, you said it - all depends on the individual game. But, in the realm of theory crafting, i lean towards tommy's assessment. With every one of the 4 cities starting massive growth before turn 40, with the help of couple of maritime alliances, you are looking at slightly better results than taking a forced shortcut (forced by happiness, probably) and getting 2 more cities after NC. Four cities is four cities. More culture, more faith, more units. More luxuries/strategics. More time to improve them. Maybe more trade routes your way. Besides, his recent turn 194 Inca science win isn't exactly such that it prohibits to speak from position of experience.
Click to expand...

People have to remember that game was replayed and a lot of information being available outside of that game.

On the other hand I'd also lean toward 4cities if things are going your way. Also Babylon may very well have a stronger 2city NC game than the other ones due to even faster philosophy.
 
Acken said:
People have to remember that game was replayed and a lot of information being available outside of that game.
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Which is no different to endless HOF style re-rolling, generally speaking.

On the other hand I'd also lean toward 4cities if things are going your way. Also Babylon may very well have a stronger 2city NC game than the other ones due to even faster philosophy.
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Might be the case, when the starting location is brilliant. Them and the Mayans should be able to outperform in that scenario. As for the rest of the civs..
 
59saintdane said:
A lot harder, I think. The three key Tradition policies (Legalism, Landed Elite, Monarchy) will now be delayed by 10-20 turns. That's going to overall slow your growth, culture, gold, and maybe even run you into happiness problems if you didn't get Monarchy in time (or force you to delay Landed Elite for the sake of dealing with happiness).
Click to expand...

I almost always find culture ruins. One game I got legalism on I think t23.
 
Acken said:
People have to remember that game was replayed and a lot of information being available outside of that game.

On the other hand I'd also lean toward 4cities if things are going your way. Also Babylon may very well have a stronger 2city NC game than the other ones due to even faster philosophy.
Click to expand...

Replayed? Is there any proof to this?
 
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