The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game # 4 - Sweden

Sweden feels like a very solid civ to me. Both halves of the UA are excellent, especially if you’re planning on warring. War usually gives you more Great Generals than you really need, and it also isn’t uncommon to capture Great Prophets that you don’t normally have much use for. I’ve long felt that Sweden was the single most mis-rated civ in this site’s “Deity tier list” thread. I hope that this game and the associated thread leads people to appreciate Sweden a bit more.[/SPOILER]

I agree and they happen to be one of my favorite civs as well. I like role playing a bit and honor+Sweden tends to result in very fun games. The free GG gifted to a cultural city state assures the full honor tree by turn 75 or around. One of my more memorable games as Sweden had me ally early with three cultural city states and finish honor by about turn 60. Giving away great people while warmongering and receiving the city state benefits negates a lot of the shortcomings you normally face in conquest games. There really is no other civilization like Sweden. I know Peddroelm is taking a break from civ right now, but his honor/commerce domination strategy would be an interesting watch.
 
1 every ~20 turns.

One weird thing that doesn't seem to be documented anywhere is that the Patronage finisher gives Khans instead of Great Generals. It's a cute little bonus, although the randomness obviously weakens it. I got my Khan right after I was finished warring (literally the turn before making peace :undecide:).

EDIT: (I'm actually not sure about this. It's possible that the list includes both Khans and normal Generals... which would kind of suck. I know that it includes normal Great Merchants, and I THINK I remember getting a Merchant of Venice once. That would make it more likely that both kinds of Generals are possible. But I don't know for certain.)
 
Never played deity before (barely gone above normal), but the previous games in these threads looked interesting so I thought I'd try this.
Spoiler :
First time around Shaka wiped me out in less than 100 turns. Retried last night. Up to ~turn 87 and I'm doing better at bribing him to stay at war with others, but it's really hindering growth. No screenshots at the moment. Is this an exceptionally hard start or are all deity games this challenging?
 
Never played deity before (barely gone above normal), but the previous games in these threads looked interesting so I thought I'd try this.
Spoiler :
First time around Shaka wiped me out in less than 100 turns. Retried last night. Up to ~turn 87 and I'm doing better at bribing him to stay at war with others, but it's really hindering growth. No screenshots at the moment. Is this an exceptionally hard start or are all deity games this challenging?

Shaka is the biggest AI threat (military) in the whole game for the first 150 turns or so. There's few reasons:
-AI likes melee units and Shaka has a huge bonus to melee (once it build UB) (3 movements, resistance to range)
-Shaka gets faster promotions meaning tougher units and more healing
-Less Maintenance means the AI thinks it can field more unit
-Impi is OP and is a very good unit up to musket/rifles but he gets it at T75 on Deity :lol:

Either bribe him for these 150 turns or kill him very early.
 
@FireOrb and for anyone else who wishes to try out buying council votes:

I've attached the savefile I had when I realized that I could win. I then loaded an autosave which have since been deleted. So you won't win this vote, and with the dipomats not being there you'll have to go for the next council vote or at the least wait thirteen turns for the next council vote procedure to be eligble.

I tried it and Shaka, Persia and Germany were still up for the vote. More or less pressed next turn from the save thirteen times. Took Estetics rather than a order policy, if that incites the non "order" civs.
 

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Is this an exceptionally hard start or are all deity games this challenging?

Spoiler :
Not all deity games are challenging. I would say since the start of this series that this one is the most difficult. First of all to improve the luxuries you need to research sailing and trapping. Players often delay both techs in standard pangaea games. Second, this is a very low production start so it takes longer to get your empire up and running. Third you have Shaka as your closest neighbor. He's not a great neighbor in the first place, but he is even worse when it's all flat land. He can be taken out early as a couple players have shown. The earlier you take him out the better. Once he gets Impis out between turns 75-85, he becomes very difficult to deal with for quite some time.
 
One weird thing that doesn't seem to be documented anywhere is that the Patronage finisher gives Khans instead of Great Generals. It's a cute little bonus, although the randomness obviously weakens it. I got my Khan right after I was finished warring (literally the turn before making peace :undecide:).

EDIT: (I'm actually not sure about this. It's possible that the list includes both Khans and normal Generals... which would kind of suck. I know that it includes normal Great Merchants, and I THINK I remember getting a Merchant of Venice once. That would make it more likely that both kinds of Generals are possible. But I don't know for certain.)

you can get khans and MOV (but I don't think you can annex a CS with it, it only gives double gold and influence), and all regular GPs.
 
I was going to skip this one but I have to say I'm intrigued -- I never ever ever thought it'd be possible to take out an AI, much less Shaka, on turn 50-60 with 3 archers and a couple other dudes. May need to try it ...
 
Sweden my favorite Civ, I'm hoping I can pull one out this time around

Through Turn 50
Spoiler :
Settle in place river sea adjacent tile, I'm afraid to go south, start building a scout
t2 Spear Ruin,
t3 meet manila
t4 map ruin
t7 archery tech
t8 meet Ife collect 8faith
Second Scout is finished switch production to shrine and work the hill at 2 pop to get a fast pantheon
t12 meet Shaka
t16 Dow Shaka and steal two workers, hopefully killing an early game momentum
t21 Meet Shosone
t22 Steal the settler coming out of Ilundi and upgrade scout to archer
t23 barbs are swarming capital so I hold my workers until I can heal my spear and scout
t23 meet germany
t24 pop 3 really slow grow
t27 meet Darius and peace with Shaka
t37 Meet Austria upgrade
t41 Alliance with UR
t43 DOF with germany
t46 Pop 7 growth is catching up
t50 Pop 8, Difficult Decision, should I push out settlers or go for one city NC and then get settlers out? I wish I were a better player and knew what was the best decision

BO Scout, Scout Shrine Granary, Boat, Boat, Boat
SP: Tradition to Landed Elite and then Monarchy


Through turn 77
Spoiler :

t51 watching Germany every turn to see when he has enough gold to trade gpt for gold for a settler
t54 trade 3 gpt for 76 gold, buy settler headed to the spot near Mt. Kilamanjaro
t57 crap, I spot 2 settlers coming from Ulundi I'm going to DOW and take a settler, see pic related
t58 settle Sigtuna and Start Library Production in Stockholm I'm finishing a lighthouse, ally with Riga
t59 after pillaging tiles and clearing a barb camp I have enough gold to guy the tile Mt. Kilamanjaro
Darius DOWs Bismark
t63 Shaka Accepts white peace, shaka is now at 5 cities
t65 open patronage and
t67 find France wow they forward settled Byzanthium
t73 Finished Philo and will start NC as soon as library finishes on t76
t77 DOF with Byzanthium
 

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My first DV! (Had never tried for one before, I have heard they are the easiest.) I did not think I would pull this one off. I spent most of the game with 10% of the leaders military, even at my best I was 1/2 of avg. I was very late to be tech leader t223 after Rat finisher, but fell to 3rd by t263, ended 2nd. 7th in most demographics, just a horrible empire. Details:

Spoiler :
Since my t80 update - I got 3 cities up, didn't settle 4th for quite a while (way S by deer for 3 sea tiles, iron, fur). I made so many mistakes this game it was crazy.

1.) 4th city - I was desperate to get some iron and be in reach of more hills for my super lack of production - but the ice meant I couldn't run cargo ships - ugh. It only got to pop 16.

2.) Went Freedom, as both Persia and Germany went Order first (Shaka and Poc Autocracy, rest Order). I didn't want 0 free tenets (was absolutely ready to take only 1), and Autocracy seemed worthless with zero military buildings and walls in only 2 cities.

3.) Not switching to Order after finishing SOL, or Free Foreign Legion tenet. I was a breath away from annihilation for like 80 turns. Even Darius dropped our constant DOF.

4.) Focusing on late-game food buildings when I should have been building TP and banking cash. I was racking up like 50-60 food/turn in cap - I have never built those buildings.

5.) Not enough early food to cap - I only had one cargo ship and way late one food caravan. No wonder my tech sucked. Plastics t210. So working mostly farms kept my production in the toilet. I didn't finish Natl Epic until t225, which is horrid, considering I'm counting on GP (East India much later, ugh)! At least I got Hydro Plants in 3 cities.

6.) Laughed to myself seeing 2 stranded barb workers on the island by Sydney, and didn't think til much later that by capturing I could gain 80 influence - derp, too late!

My initial plan was to go Tradition, then Patronage to Consulates (I did, and had to delay Rat open to do it), then run Freedom for 6 tenets to level3 Treaty Organization (+4 influence/turn with CS with trade route), and finish Rat and Patronage sometime. I figured this game would be easy! Ended up with full Rat, only 3 Order and 4-deep Patronage. By contrast, Persia and Austria had all of Patronage 80 turns earlier.

First WC I propose WF and Austria bans all CS routes, I assume to isolate Shaka. Derp. I wasn't able to lift the ban for a long time, and by then my routes still had like 40-50 turns left to go, with WL votes coming! So I was trying to decide when to switch to Order. I did one reload when something new happened - Germany asked me to denounce Poc (I have never seen that) and I refused, and next turn Germany denounced me! I knew what that meant, as Theo had already denounced me long before and things went bad after that. So I reloaded and denounced, and relations improved...

Sort of. Suddenly Shaka (Poc's buddy) starts to citadel bomb me. He stole my furs and 2 precious production tiles, and he had 2 more GG's ready to make a path to my cap - so I had to DOW him with a minimal force (5 minimally promoted Gats, 2 weak Infantry, 1 near-worthless Hakkapelitta, a Scout and a Caravel off somewhere). Luckily I had just ramped up production, so I built 3 BB's with double land promos, and blasted the crap out of his GWI. They can one-shot Cavalry easy. His 2 GG's were undefended, whew. I finished SOH just in time to get the 6 Free Foreign Legions, and in hindsight I should have ran them all up to Mt Kil for Alt Training. This would have given me time to upgrade them all to Infantry as well. So I lost quite a few troops battling for Ondini (which I sold to Persia for big bucks to fund my final CS buys, didn't sell any cities, just gpt and still had 2k left). I thought I would have to liberate Manilla for the DV (it was allied with Germany early in the game and Shaka took it). Took white peace with Shaka, and he was amazingly holding out better than expected against Persia and Germany for dozens of turns - but he is toast.



I faith GE'd SOL, hard-built SOH and Neuschwanstein (at a time I desperately needed troops) and missed CR by 2 turns. By the end game I burned a natural and faith GS to finally beat down Poc's relations with the NW CS's, knowing I was killing my science game. Nobody had built Hubble yet, even though almost everyone had Apollo.

As far as good things I did, I focused on cultural CS early, and with only 3 cities I made good early policy progress, it seemed. I bee-lined Globalization, and those 5 diplomat votes made all the difference. My late-game switch to Order gave me some breathing room, but just to be sure I kept my 4 closest neighbors at constant war. I handled Shaka very well, but it was expensive! One plan that would have worked without 3 move Impi's - I gave him open borders and a bribe vs Persia, and once half his troops were through my mtn pass, I tried to close it off with units, but he could move 2 hills, darn. This trick has worked in many games, w/o reinforcements he would have lost the front half for nothing.

All in all, an exasperating game. I hate being so weak with nasty neighbors. I wish they would code an Immortal-style open, and then make the AI handle it's cash better into the late game. Now THAT would be fun - smoother difficulty.
 

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t263 DV, could have been faster if I finished Rationalism instead of getting an Order tier 3. Full write up tommorrow.

Spoiler :
Not alot went into the mid game I uncovered the map and worked CS quests and achieved tech parity early in the renaissance by beelining science and keep Zulus busy by Bribing them to DOW constantly. I had a solid group of Friends, in no large part to having control of the World Congress and kept proposing and voting down the world's fair. I escaped a scary early game vote on the banning a Whales at the first conference. That would have absolutely wrecked me had it been passed. I had Friendships with Germany, Persia, Byzantium, throughout the game and after throwing a token vote to Austria's first proposal art funding becameFriends with her as well. I finished up Patronage prior to rationalism (mistake) but I had Jesuit Education in all my cities by the time research Labs came around and blew all my stored faith on Research Labs. So no need to buy Great Scientists at that time. The rush gold went to all the CS and I used spys to pressure and occasional coup at 85%, I lost my first spy after 3 flips so not bad the rest simply influenced as theey were tier one, I wish successful coups promoted spys


Does anyone else Coup and at what Percentage do you coup?
Spoiler :
One turn away from finishing Radio t187-188 I stopped and went back and filled in Fertilizer and waited Persia chose Order on t193 I followed suit everyone else chose Order except for Shaka (Autocracy), and the Shoshone (Freedom) who didn't last 20 turns until he flipped. Enjoy crippling depression you bastard! I went all the way through Order and chose the 50% more internal food/production rather than finishing Rationalism which again could have shaved 10-15 turns off the time. While I waited out the last twenty turns, I hard built Cristo Redentor, and the Sydney Opera House with a popped GE, then I used Oxford on Globalization. No need to spend money or faith at the end So I end the game with around 5k banked and 2200Faith Banked. Fun game I got lucky on alot but also made significant mistakes.
BTW is Cristo Redentor better or worse than Ankor Wat? It only shaves off 10% of future policy acquisitions and by the time its built that's like one policy maybe two.
 

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Didn't wanna spoil the weekend with this so few turns today. Up to T227 and it looks a bit brighter from personal pov but still the game itself doesn't make any sense.

Spoiler :

T170 paid Darius to DoW Poca in hope that his will have impressive suicide rate against the GW - no such luck but at least kept them busy for a while.
T173 as Darius controls the WC WF is on it's way.
T178 WF ready Darius contributing more than the next 3 combined - barely managed the 350 but GA at least slightly increased my income. Also after the denouncement ran off Maria asked DoF which is highly welcomed.
T192 PT ready after eternity. Two cities are building factories as I want to avoid ideology for a while with modest culture and zero tourism. Maria is relatively cheap to DoW Shaka but Darius wants much more for DoWing Poca again. Theo, Nappy & Bisma are just hiding in their corners. I'm heading for artillery to kill Shaka and then hoping to steal my way into flight etc.



I've been in war with Manila since T4 but most of the time unable use it as a xp mine. Now the secondary hope is that Shaka will take it as it's allied with Maria. Didn't happen as he sent his troops one by one over the seas, sigh.
If I had the money I could upgrade my units but apparently nothing goes my way in this game.

T217 finally I have at least few arties so I'll denounce Shaka which makes Darius angry but others relatively happy and DoW a turn later, sadly Shaka isn't at war with anyone else.
Finally something nice; after Darius Poca also went Order, then me and Nappy & Bismarck joined the club. Maria took Autocracy and started getting pissed at me and didn't renew our DoF while Theo is still happy though choosing Freedom. With Maria my worry is that all my trade routes will be pillaged in one turn if she DoWs. She also has way larger Army than I do but shouldn't be a problem.



T220 finally Modern by flight but planes weren't ready for capturing Ulundi T227. Shaka luckily didn't have mounted units or they stayed away from the front line because the horses were my breed and arties do decently against Impis and being the tech bottom feeder he didn't have riflemen around.

Next I'll take some more cities, sell those, hopefully, to Darius to drain some of his gpt (600+) while keeping my friends and then form a some sort of blitzkrieg against Maria. After that nuke Darius into oblivion provided there'll be uranium and rest should be just doing some bombing exercises.
Darius is still the clear tech (and everything else) lead but I'm 2nd/3rd with Poca while others have dropped off the pace. Darius also has 43k gold, gazillion resources and more GWBs than I have units.

At some point I noticed that I couln't gift a partly used prophet to a CS anymore, was without National Epic @T210, forgot the turn-short-of-ready unit while accidentally teching and wasting hammers amongst other things and constantly being annoyed with border expansion which really doesn't want to take any hammer tiles.

For happiness I've even build Zoos but as the whole game I've been lacking money & happiness hence everything else as well. Allied with 3 or 4 CS depending on others' interested towrds them - one is in trouble when Shaka is stealing one's allies.
GP gifts work nicely but I'd really welcome a CS wanting a trade route or a road, at least once in a game.
 
to turn t211, Shaka Shenanigans and a brutal war with the game leader

Spoiler :

After rushing Shaka I settled in for some building and boarder patrol. Eventually I decided to steal Shaka's elephants with a general. He'd steal 'em right back a few turns later. What a pain this guy is :lol:



Happiness struggles are really severe this game (a mental note is made never to go full Liberty unless I have rich lands!). I decided to sell my mediocre fifth city to Darius for a DoW on Shaka to help with the happiness. (And since Shaka's army was looking a little dangerous). That didn't work well. Shaka got it back in 2-turns from the game leader.



I'd had enough, time to get some Artillery to paste those Impi. Despite Impis being a Medeivel unit fighting an Industrial army it felt like a fair fight to me.



Finally a Zulu Empire I can live next to:



Since I had an Artillery army, I thought I'd take a crack at the Persians. An amazingly bloody brawl followed where I lost at least 10-12 units, before finally punching through Darius' rifle spam. The fall of Persepolis after a 20 turn siege:



The game is still not totally over:

- Maria has had ~5 weddings and has taken over the demographics lead. She is not too fond of me either.
- Theodora was a Friend for many years, but has recently backstabbed me and is trickling units into my land (luckily straight at the old Zulu citadel :) )
- Beakers are low; production is lower. I just finished Flight, but there are hardly any hammers to put towards planes. Basic infrastructure is missing everywhere.
- I ended up settling for Silver in the World's Fair so SPs are also slow.
- I will eventually win a domination victory, but it will be a long war of attrition. Should be a good fight. ;)
 
Take good notes, I always stumble against deity in late game wars when I'm behind in tech/infrastructure
 
Hey guys, just recently started playing on diety recently (only with Poland). Got excited when i found this thread. Sweden was my first victory on Emperor so i felt pretty confident with the attempt. Boy does Shaka change peaceful times. I have probably attempted this 10 times now. Only 2 times did i throw in the towel because of Shaka, the others were stupid errors like losing settlers to barbs to misclicking miltary units to suicide into open enemy terrain, the 1st few attempts i tried to avoid settling on the coast at the start and tried to settle on that hill. Im a huge hill fan but the lack of excess resources around greatly hinder.

Spoiler :

My current attempt, ive taken a couple of screenshots, ive settled in the starting location (no moving), changed my exploration route. I learned that the ruins give you their bonuses based on the RNG for the turn it currently is. For example, my first few attempts i did the exact same explore routes with warrior and scout and received exact same bonuses everytime. But when i changed the route a couple of games because i became aware of a couple of moves that were irrelevant (ie, avoid going over that hill and just go around to get to a ruin a turn earlier as well as a city state 2 turns earlier) and i noticed my ruin bonuses changed.

My current game ruins:
A culture boost
2 pop bonuses (fyi - if your city is going to increase in pop next turn, its worth the gamble to wait a turn on acquiring that ruin)
2 unit upgrades (spearman and "scarcher")
A reveal barbarian encampment (yay >.>)
A free tech, Mining i think.



Turn 11 = 4 population. Pretty good start to the game. I'll take it. Let me know if you want the explore path to get this. I could have grabbed the ruins with my spearman instead of moving to the hill, but with my population increasing next turn, i wanted to maximize the benefit.

I decided to harrass Shaka this game, to slow him down, i stole 2 workers and razed 2 resources with the spearman and my "Scarcher" killed off 2 workers. I took my spoils back home and worked on my 2 cities. 1 of those workers was captured and i recovered it but was faced with the option of returning it to Shaka. After much deliberation with 1 attack to go on the barbarian encampment, i played the good guy, made peace with Shaka and returned his worker to bis empire. This is a very nice diplomatic trick vs aggressive war Civs.

This proved invaluable to me. He has not settled any cities near me at all. I can still get the silk by the mountain/river/desert northeast of the Cap and the ivory that is northeast of Manilla (just south of Shaka's capital. No attacks, no annoying settlling near me. I have 3 coastal cities at the moment, ive built pyramids and the Oracle (great engineer finisher for Liberty tree). Ill take some screen shots when i get the chance.

Build Order, i started scout > monument > settler > shrine.
Policies, Liberty 1st > free worker > production in cities > free settler.

Im not sure tech order but i did coordinate my free worker with trapping just a few turns apart. Early happiness for easy expand. And i did prioritize Sailing early and started making work boats. Built a shrine relatively early and took the +1 production for work boats pantheon (normally i dont get this but with 8 spots for workboats over my 3 coastal cities i thought id give it a try. Ill let you know how things progress. I havent reached turn 100 yet.
 
Lol, what a game but at least it eventually ended as probably the longest game I've played with not too many sel-set rules domination @T323. Sure the diplo would've been possible dozen of turns earlier but as it is atm I won't do it. Sci would've also been much faster but winning without beating Darius who was sitting with 70+k cash when I DoWed seemed cheap, cheezy or odd or all three hence the pointless warpath.
Spoiler :

Roughly the sort of end as I planned earlier, Darius lost 55k cash, 30+ turns of income starting with ~700 gpt & all but one cities while the other wars were much shorter.
T298 Persepolis, T313 Paris, T322 Constantinople, T323 Berlin, Vienna & Moson Kahni.
Dozen nukes, 20 SBs, 8 RAs & 20 Xcoms can do almost impressive damage in one turn.

I'll write something at least a bit more comprehensive later.
 
Finished with a domination victory at T261.

Spoiler :


Not an easy game, the start make it so taking Shaka early slowed down my start a lot: NC at T95, Education T118, Secularism T150 etc
So with such a slow start and poor terrain (low production) killing people with crossbows was out of the window so I aimed for a classic artillery domination. Since I was late overall I made schools first because it was obvious bombers would be required at some point.

Took autocracy and started attacking with artillery around T190. Went straight for Austria before she eat every CS. I had some DoF east side so they will wait. Austria had Notre Dame too.

After a slow war I took some of her cities and since my army was getting quite big, I split it, one toward Darius (army 2) the other toward Vienna (army 1). I take Vienna and Persepolis around the same time T215. I make peace with both, grab a needed city from Darius. Instead of going for Shoshone I decide to go east with army 1. Shoshone become my friend ("we fought a common foe") and I sell him a lot of stuff, I'll kill him at the end.

I DoW what's left of Shaka and he gets wiped by Me, Manila and France from 3 sides. Theodora DoW me but her army is no match for GWB + Carolean + Artillery. I DoW Germany and quickly get Berlin with army 2. I take 2 cities east of Berlin in order to have a base to bombard France. I also liberate antavarino along the way.

Ideology starts to be problematic since I'm the only one that took Autocracy (all took Order). I had won the world fair around T175 and had CS allies for a long time so nobody exceeded exotic but I started to get some -18 happiness...

I bribe France to DoW both Germany and Byzantium then DoW him and army 1 goes toward Constantinople. The city is taken multiple time by France and Theodora so taking it is a formality since it was a 4pop city with no defensive structures at the point I reach it. Meanwhile army 2 takes Paris a couple turn later.

Suddenly I get hit by a massive unhapiness wave at -40 so I have to sell some useless cities, sadly making the map ugly. All planes (12) go near Shoshone, I upgrade 3 artillery and in a matter of 8 turns I take the final capital.
 
to t269, more deity attrition warfare, and the fall of the last major threat

Spoiler :

After capturing the Persian capital it was time to deal with the backstabbing Theodora.



We ended up in an air war stalemate. I can't move my units forward because they get GW Bombered, and my Triplane coverage is too short. Should I build a combat settler in these situations? Probably.



Just when I'm getting close to taking Nicaea I got dual DoW'ed by Darius and Pocatello. Going to have to do something about this, so I made peace with Theodora. I took Nicaea as a tribute, then realized it would be in resistence for another 28 turns!

Darius' attempt at revenge, none too shabby:



After clearing up his forces, and leaving him with a single sea based city, it is time to find the next target. Maria is leading in food, hammers, and army so I guess she wins the draw. Another serious conflagration occurred around Kyzyl which has been my ally since I accidentally spawned a great merchant.



The fall of Vienna marks the turning point from a contentious game into a mop-up operation.



More thoughts:

- I'm going to reach Stealth soon, something I haven't done for a long time in an Ancient Start game. That should help with the mop up of the remaining AIs, but also shows how slow this game is progressing :lol:

- Lots of heavy fighting, and many more units lost on my part (mostly to Theodora). This game is definitely a personal record for my sustained casualties :)

- Sweden really starts to gain momentum late game with easy CS allying. I still think it's a bit of a rich-getting-richer UA, however.
 
We ended up in an air war stalemate. I can't move my units forward because they get GW Bombered, and my Triplane coverage is too short. Should I build a combat settler in these situations? Probably

Make anti aircraft gun rather ?

Game shouldn't last very long now, good luck.
 
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