Final Frontier: Problems & Issues (Post-3.13 Update Available)

At one point in the game, a weaker civilization offered to become a vassal state of my civilization. After I accepted, the cultural area around all my starbases disappeared and as a result, I lost access to resources where I had already built an extraction facility. Consequently, total health and total happiness went down in all my solar systems. I can provide a saved game of before and after the fact, if necessary. Great mod though, aside from this 'undocumented feature'. ;)

Mamamia,

Noted that one also. Here is what I posted on another thread. Wanted to get it over here after I found this thread.

Final Frontier, FF, Vassal, StarBase bug

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I'll post this one here rather than create a new thread.

In Final Frontier, if the AI offers to become a vassal and you accept you lose your StarBases zones-of-control. So all those nice resource are lost.

I'll include an upload of a auto-save. When you load this savegame file, an AI should immediately ask you to accept him as a vassal. Select: NO -- you will conclude the start of game sequence and see that StarBases are intact. Reload and select: YES -- you will see that you lose the zoc's and your happiness and health are trashed. Bummer man.

Now... let's see if I can figure out how to attach that savegame file...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/51540/AutoSave_AD-2326-April.CivBeyondSwordSave
__________________
jrregan AT onebox DOT com
 
The AI has problems with unit choices. I saw no squadrons, not on systems or starbases. Haven't spotted a carrier yet either. (3.13 and fixes posted in this thread). As they are extremely powerful, not using them cripples the AI military.

AI doesn't seem to use invasion ships. In general, the AI doesn't use combined arms fleet stacks either. Battleships go off to fight alone, and get picked off by squadrons because they don't have destroyers or carriers w/interceptors with them.

Vanilla civ uses fleet structures -- destroyer, battleship, and carrier (plus transports which should equate kind of to invasion ships), all in one stack.



The AI does use stealth ships. Red Syndicate did anyway. Popped two starbase-constructing ships, including the guarding destroyers. Picked off destroyers traversing their territory. But I didn't notice them using pillaging of warp lanes.

OTOH, stealth ship warp lane removal might be overpowered. The AI doesn't seem to be able to do much about it. They don't seem to kill stealth ships except by lucky encounters (either one of their own or a scout).



AI teching seems quite good. Part of it may be my inexperience with the game. I've only done one so far, as Forge, and am fighting using inferior tech but higher production. I think that if they AI used squadrons, I'd be pretty dead by now.
 
I'm not sure, but I think it's a bug in FF (with patch 3.13 installed):

I started a custom Epic game with FF, set Raging Barbarians, and to my surprise, around turn 40-45 I started getting attacked by Pirate Cruisers and Battleships (including one big nasty Omega Battleship). I got destroyed very easily, cause I only had technology as far as to build destroyers (but I hadn't manage to build any, and they are far too weak anyway).

I expected Raging Barbarians to increase the number of Pirate Ships, not to get attacked in early stages by the most powerful ships in the late game. :eek:
 
OK, I've spotted a couple fighter squadrons and invasion ships. We're in relatively late game era -- the AI is fighting wars with omega and delta warships -- but I've yet to spot a carrier, let alone a carrier group.

All AIs are running Pacifism. I frankly think that it is the most powerful choice. The warship specialties only pay if you are in all-out war mode, and even then only if it is going to last many (10+) turns.

Stealth ships limited use may well be the same issue as the standard BTS, where privateers are little used by the AI. Privateers would be easy for the AI to spam and waste resources on, because they have a limited opportunity window. Stealth ships seem especially good in the early game, before better warships come around to block them. But unlike Privateers, they never truly go obsolete, so the AI could and probably should make more use of them.
 
Does the AI treat Starbases as carriers? I've yet to spot any squadrons on them. Because of that, a sure way to destroy one is a couple of loaded carriers. They can just pound it to death. Since it has no interception ability, there is little risk.

I load mine up with squadrons, and like having destroyers around to cover them. A destroyer is tough enough to wipe out whatever the starbase hammers.

New game, AI used squadrons to defend a system effectively. Between a fighter squadron and destroyer, they took out a lot of my bombers. Shame it didn't help against a stack of invasion and battleships.
 
Images speak for themselves...

(I have 3.13)


Spoiler :
In the night sky; if i want to, i can see all the planets, a cheap telescope will do... but in FF, a unit in the Star can't see all the planets and even worse, we can't see other stars. Nowadays, we know where the stars are, but we can't get to them, as they are too far away (people would die in the meantime and supplies and gas would never be enough...) in FF, that isn't a problem... but we can't see the faraway stars!



Spoiler :
Things are simply way out of scale!



Spoiler :
Messy view... right?


Spoiler :
GG were removed... right? Why is this tip on and why can we add them in WB (as well as other GP)


Spoiler :
(Alpha and) Omega Pirates come way to early! And I almost always tech-lead, only sometimes in FF i get 100% gold to the StarBases... but i still tech lead, so make the Scout vs Omega Destroyer impossible in next version!







Spoiler :
I've heard that the suicide auto-explore had ended... seems like a lie! I had more suicide units... but didn't take a picture. (that's why i only put auto-explore on puny scouts, destroyers are too precious!) AI also does that.

Edit: Today a Omega Scout entered the center tile of a SuperNova! I have a picture if you guys need it, but for now i won't post it



 
3.13 Version.. noticed a bug in the code for System Density in def addFeatures(self) inFinalFrontier.py (theMapScript):

# Custom Map Option Stuff
iStarSystemDensity = self.map.getCustomMapOption(0)
iStarSystemMod = 0
if (iStarSystemDensity == 0): # Very High Density
iStarSystemMod = -25
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 1): # High Density
iStarSystemMod = 10
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 2): # Normal Density
iStarSystemMod = -5
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 3): # Low Density
iStarSystemMod = 50

I've corrected it in my copy, but might be something to fix if another BtS patch is released.

Note: Jon knows this, but others might not.. By being positive, when you choose High Density, there are actually less systems present than in Normal Density.
 
1. FF is a game. The stars are around to make the game look prettier.

2. FF is a game. If everything was to scale, even Omega class battleships couldn't be seen against stars and planets.

3. Try turning up the contrast and brightness on your monitor, that seems to help the messiness caused by zooming out the whole way a bunch.

Everything else you've talked about are legitimate concerns.
 
3.13 Version.. noticed a bug in the code for System Density in def addFeatures(self) inFinalFrontier.py (theMapScript):

# Custom Map Option Stuff
iStarSystemDensity = self.map.getCustomMapOption(0)
iStarSystemMod = 0
if (iStarSystemDensity == 0): # Very High Density
iStarSystemMod = -25
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 1): # High Density
iStarSystemMod = 10
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 2): # Normal Density
iStarSystemMod = -5
elif (iStarSystemDensity == 3): # Low Density
iStarSystemMod = 50

I've corrected it in my copy, but might be something to fix if another BtS patch is released.

Note: Jon knows this, but others might not.. By being positive, when you choose High Density, there are actually less systems present than in Normal Density.

I ALWAYS use everything sparced

1. FF is a game. The stars are around to make the game look prettier.

2. FF is a game. If everything was to scale, even Omega class battleships couldn't be seen against stars and planets.

3. Try turning up the contrast and brightness on your monitor, that seems to help the messiness caused by zooming out the whole way a bunch.

Everything else you've talked about are legitimate concerns.


1. I but i think, even today, a spaceship can go to he Sun and see Plutos if they have a decent telescope; and to spaceships, it's a must to have a decent telescope

How can a Planetary Defense Ship defend planets in a solar system if they don't know what they're suppose to defend is?


2. But having flying factories the size of stars...


3. My monitor contrast and brightness are at maximum, i play at 1200x1024 and game quality is high, with high detail terrain... isn't that enough?
 
...

I think you missed the urinal on numbers 1 and 2.

As for number 3, I've noticed you're using the Blue Marble terrain graphics which changes the appearance of FF. That might have something to do with it, but I'm not sure.
 
When being attacked or attacking with a steath ship, it reveals the identity of the stealth ship

i.e. - "Your construction ship has been destroyed by a New Earth Stealth Ship"

or - "A New Earth Stealth Ship has killed your PDS" etc etc etc

Does the same thing when a Stealth Ship destroys improvements (tells you the nationality of the stealth ship).

Additionally, when a Stealth Ship approaches a new civ for the first time, then your "unseen" stealth ship causes the previously unmet planet to contact you with the standard greeting.

Now that kind of removes the "stealth" of the ship just a bit.
 
When being attacked or attacking with a steath ship, it reveals the identity of the stealth ship

i.e. - "Your construction ship has been destroyed by a New Earth Stealth Ship"

or - "A New Earth Stealth Ship has killed your PDS" etc etc etc

Does the same thing when a Stealth Ship destroys improvements (tells you the nationality of the stealth ship).

Additionally, when a Stealth Ship approaches a new civ for the first time, then your "unseen" stealth ship causes the previously unmet planet to contact you with the standard greeting.

Now that kind of removes the "stealth" of the ship just a bit.

Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a simple way to do it? I am modding my copy of Final Frontier, so if there is a (somewhat, I hope!) simple way to fix the "Stealth Ship not really being very stealth" problem here, I'd appreciate any ideas!

My other question is this: buildings increase in cost each time you build another one in the same system (i.e. your second factory costs many more hammers and turns to build). I was wondering where the multiplier for this is, because I'd like to lower it because IMHO it's too high. Any ideas? :)

Thanks in advance!
 
Using 3.13 I haven't observed the stealth ship identification bug. I gave the AIs a lot of them in WB, and all reported only that a stealth ship attacked, not nationality. Also using Bhruic's unofficial patch and Jon's fixes for FF.
 
The AI doesn't seem to use carriers. Nor does it assign squadrons to starbases. The first significantly limits its ability to wage offensive wars. But carriers in FF are unsafe to use unless placed in a good stack with defending ships, so unless the AI does that, it really shouldn't use them anyway.

Starbases are dead meat against squadrons (and so are battleships and cruisers), without some sort of interceptor to defend them. Still, they are supposed to be defensive units. Couldn't they get some interception ability of their own?

If they had, say, 30% interception -- too much and they'd just slaughter all squadrons, too little and it wouldn't help much. A minus vs. squadrons on interception would help too, so they aren't a lot better than destroyers at this. But maybe they should be lethal to squadron attacks?

As it is, a couple of carriers can take down a starbase with no risk. While I don't mind that per se, against the AI it isn't fair because they don't seem capable of doing the same thing. I've never seen the AI destroy a starbase.
 
It should be able to rename planets as we rename cities: the city name is automatically the first planet name, but i don't like having names like (for example) RC-1, so i rename it, but the first planet will certainly be called RC-1; and therefore have lots of RC-1 planets!

The WB needs improvement...

Multiple buildings in the same Solar System like the factory with increased original :hammers: but with less :hammers: required for the second one, (for example, instead of 3 times more, only 2; simple buildings like Mining Facilities or Nutrition Plants should be about 1,5 times more instead of the 2 times more (correct me if i'm wrong))

Space Random Events! (examples:Solid water found on one planet(+1:health:), planet with could find a deposit of Gold, Crystals... (+2:commerce:) ... please add things like this (some negative events too!) and maybe also quests!)

Nebulas aren't so big and spread through the space...


I'll stop (for now :rolleyes:) the criticism... GREAT MOD!!! I've played this mod much more than NW and that much more than the Vanilla BtS! :D (My sig, avatar and location prove it, right? :))
 
Using 3.13 I haven't observed the stealth ship identification bug. I gave the AIs a lot of them in WB, and all reported only that a stealth ship attacked, not nationality. Also using Bhruic's unofficial patch and Jon's fixes for FF.


"Your construction ship has been destroyed by a New Earth Stealth Ship"

That's a direct quote from the top of the screen when an enemy stealth ship kills one of your construction ships.

Using the current FF Mod with the current patch, it says the same thing in MP or SP
 
"Your construction ship has been destroyed by a New Earth Stealth Ship"

That's a direct quote from the top of the screen when an enemy stealth ship kills one of your construction ships.

Using the current FF Mod with the current patch, it says the same thing in MP or SP

I don't doubt that it does for you, but it doesn't for me. My game was started under 3.13 w the FF mod fix from Jon and Bhruic's unofficial patch (1.09, but updated to current 1.105). I don't know what is different, but something must be.
 
Red Syndicate must die!

So far -- three games only -- the evil red empire has dominated the ascendancy race. One loss, two wins -- but I played as them once, so that win might not count. On the other hand, the game was immensely easier playing as them rather than Forge or Astrotech, and I suspect that they are by far the most advantaged civilization.

I figure that when we do a multiplayer game, we're going to have to set them off-limits, or give it to a really poor player.

Do they seem especially effective to anyone else?
 
You haven't tried playing as Lukas von Reuther yet?
 
Red Syndicate must die!

So far -- three games only -- the evil red empire has dominated the ascendancy race. One loss, two wins -- but I played as them once, so that win might not count. On the other hand, the game was immensely easier playing as them rather than Forge or Astrotech, and I suspect that they are by far the most advantaged civilization.

I figure that when we do a multiplayer game, we're going to have to set them off-limits, or give it to a really poor player.

Do they seem especially effective to anyone else?

Yes, they have a RIDICULOUSLY huge advantage over all other civs. They build what, like, 5 buildings faster? And all of them a commerce buildings, which of course is where their advantage lies-- being able to generate tons of commerce, they can more easily wage war, expand their empire, and lead the tech race among other things. I love playing as them (it's sort of sad, crushing the AI so easily, though...:lol: ) but playing against them is a REAL challenge...go after them ASAP!

By the way, any modders come up with the location for that modifier for the "subsequent building increase costs" yet? I still have no clue where it is... :confused:
 
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