Science, tech & literacy - baffled, have question

It seems the more I learn about the workings of the game, the less I understand.

All the research on how to beat Immortal and Deity show me that science is king (no pun intended).

So I've been concentrating on that in my games.

BUT...

I've noticed that having the highest science rate DOES NOT equal a tech lead!

I thought that the science rate meant that you discover new techs faster than the AIs, and you will start to pull ahead, right?

What I've noticed instead is that even if I use as a starting point for measuring a time when I have the tech lead AND the most science per turn (viewed through InfoAddict), I can still fall behind and X turns later have less techs and less literacy, but still have a higher science rate!!!

What am I missing?

Example: In my current game I am Celts on Emperor. Want to practise my science on Emperor (where I'm comfortable) before trying it again on Immortal.

Got Education ca. turn 100 and beelined for Acoustics (since I'm also attempting a CV).

In the mean time, I take one of Hiawatha's cities and my science rate takes a nice jump due to the extra pop. At turn 115 or so I have science rate of 79. I have joint-most techs.

Ten turns later, I have science of 82, almost double the next-nearest which is Assyria with 47. But I have fallen 3 techs behind and am 4th in literacy.

WHAT IS HAPPENING???

Research agreements and spies. That is what you are missing.

If they have fewer cities, it can also make a small difference.

Uzael36 said:

Research agreements and spies. That is what you are missing.

If they have fewer cities, it can also make a small difference.

Click to expand...

But I usually get announcements when AIs sign RAs and didn't in this game. I guess spies can do something, but didn't realise it was that effective.

Since I can't stop the AIs spying on each other, what can I do if no AIs want to sign RAs with me? (which would make up the difference, presumably?)

There may also be a level bonus the AI is getting. I wouldn't worry too much about your tech position until turn 150. On Immortal/Deity, I don't normally hold onto the lead until close to turn 150. Before them, I mostly ignore it, and focus on what I'm doing.

Literacy is based on number of techs, if you have more science per turn but are bypassing cheap techs, the AIs may temporarily pull ahead in raw number of techs.
(Which will reverse as soon as you back fill techs)

Bonuses AI gets:
1. AI Default handicap new to BNW includes science cost of tech for the AI only costing 85% that of a human. That means your science rate must exceed the AI by 16.6% just to stay even.

2. Starts with some bonus techs (level dependent)

3. Bonus with city growth (level dependent) -> more science

4. Bonus with production (level dependent) -> more science but only when AI is buying science buildings (so only really a factor for high science flavor AIs)

5. Happiness bonues (AI default is 90% of normal unhappiness which then gets multiplied by level dependent) -> On high difficulty levels AIs with low happiness flavors actually stay happy so they continue to grow -> more science

Thanks for all of your explanations, people, but there is definitely more to this than what you've said so far. As a test, I started another game on Immortal and kept a keen watch. I know I hit education first, so no RAs, and before the beginning of the anomaly I'm about to report, none had yet hit renaissance, so no spies.

On the turn that Maria hit renaissance (I think through Acoustics), I checked the science - Kamehameha had 56, Portugal 106 BPT (out of interest I had 63). Yet Kamehameha has a sizeable tech lead over Maria (and of course, me). So I get that they will be ahead of me at this time, but how does the guy with half the science of Portugal manage to out-tech her, before education?

Also, I've just remembered watching a video of a guy playing as Korea and winning by domination, and he had Artillery at about T160 or something amazing like that. Is that possible on continents map where you only have 1 or 2 neighbours and there is no 'bridge' that you can get across before Astronomy?

Are you aware that the tech % is a % of technologies earned, not how many beakers are spent. That means that someone who beelines to education, and later Scientific Theory, can still be behind someone who fills out the entire tree evenly. Even though the person who reaches ST will be earning way more BPT, and have spent more beakers.

That tech lead is very misleading. It's really cool after you reach Scientific theory, get your public schools, and start to fill out a bunch of tech's that only take 1 turn to research. You will slingshot ahead.

joncnunn said:

Literacy is based on number of techs, if you have more science per turn but are bypassing cheap techs, the AIs may temporarily pull ahead in raw number of techs.

Click to expand...

Sounds exactly like the CS science quest.

Yeah, don't care about literacy much. All my lead science games on Deity it appears I'm behind by the literacy stat in the industrial, but I know it's because I'm researching expensive techs like Radio first while they are picking up easy things in the bottom of the tree. I either am going to steal it from them (if I have time) with that early 2nd spy or will get all those easy techs in 1-2 turns later. You can tell exactly how much they have on you though, and between this and the trade route info on numbers you can usually infer exactly what techs they have and if it is worth stealing them.