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you sure the soundfiles are installed in the mod folder?
I seem to recall those were supplied separately at one time...
 
that was a false alarm about the soundeffects not playing - theyd somehow got turned off in the options panel :rolleyes:

one thing I did notice are that Marshes and Wetlands are now entirely gone from the game, at least in the Fractal maps - I miss having these, can they be put back in (I was wondering why none of the Marsh or Wetland events were firing..)
 
I think the current method is to have the fear-causing unit 'cast' a fear spell on all nearby units at the start of a turn.
I'd keep this part (for terror), but maybe expand the function to include attacking:

I would definitely *not* keep this part. Only units with fear/terror abilities should gain any bonus from the ability. My terrifying unit should *not* make it easier for my basic core infantry to kill the enemy. The abilities just become too powerful if this happens.
I think fear should be a small combat strength bonus (maybe 10-15%), and terror should have the x% chance fail to attack mechanic, and maybe scatters defenders when attacking. If you want both effects on some particular unit, just give it both fear AND terror.
But we should have a general discussion with contributions from everyone on which units should get Fear and Terror. I would personally like to keep them as very rare "special" abilities, on only a handful of units, mostly undead or demons.

* * *

Yes, marshes and wetlands seem to be gone from the random map designs. There were definitely too many before, but it would be nice to see a few around. Wetlands gone I'm fine with; wetlands should only exist within jungle-dweller territory; it was a bug that they were showing up in random map design.

I wonder if we should also use the new FFH marshes (still give +1 food, can build some improvements on them - basically they're tundra - and use the Colonisation marsh graphics) rather than the completely useless marshes we had before?
 
one thing I did notice are that Marshes and Wetlands are now entirely gone from the game, at least in the Fractal maps - I miss having these, can they be put back in (I was wondering why none of the Marsh or Wetland events were firing..)

that was my doing :p i commented out to make map scripts remove marsh ard wetland on the map on map generation (CvEventManager file):

Code:
		iWetland = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_WETLAND')
		iGrass = gc.getInfoTypeForString('TERRAIN_GRASS')
		iLizJungle = gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_DEEP_JUNGLE')		
		for i in range (CyMap().numPlots()):
			pPlot = CyMap().plotByIndex(i)
			iTerrain = pPlot.getTerrainType()
			if iTerrain ==  iWetland:
				pPlot.setTerrainType(iGrass, true, true)
			iFeature = pPlot.getFeatureType()
			if iFeature ==  iLizJungle:
				pPlot.setFeatureType(-1, 0)

if you want marsh to appear just comment out the marsh related lines there.

EDIT: i just realised this is for wetlands and deep jungle not marsh. i commented out the marsh terrain in the map generation python file thingo. i can re-enable it and play around with numbers to see if we can get less massive patches of marsh...

I think fear should be a small combat strength bonus (maybe 10-15%)

then what makes it different to the combat 1 promo? fear needs to be special seeing as its a special rule :p i still think a check at the start of combat if a unit has fear/ terror promo, if so reduce the strength of any unit in that combat that does not have fear by x%.

I wonder if we should also use the new FFH marshes (still give +1 food, can build some improvements on them - basically they're tundra - and use the Colonisation marsh graphics) rather than the completely useless marshes we had before?

i would agree with this. plus the FfH marsh looks kickass :p unfortunately i have no idea how to add new base terrain types (only features and such, i tried once but that was an epic fail)
 
i can re-enable it and play around with numbers to see if we can get less massive patches of marsh...

I'd like to see a little bit of marsh, but less than before.

then what makes it different to the combat 1 promo? fear needs to be special seeing as its a special rule

The difference is: the bonus applies only against units that are affected by fear. So, elementals, units with Courage (or otherwise immune to psychology), undead and demons would all be unaffected, as would any other unit with the Fear promotion.
i still think a check at the start of combat if a unit has fear/ terror promo, if so reduce the strength of any unit in that combat that does not have fear by x%.

I don't understand the difference between our proposals. In both case, a unit with Fear gets an X% strength bonus against any unit that isn't immune to fear. Whatever code mechanics are easiest to do I leave up to you.
 
I don't understand the difference between our proposals. In both case, a unit with Fear gets an X% strength bonus against any unit that isn't immune to fear. Whatever code mechanics are easiest to do I leave up to you.

ok, the difference is this:

for arguments sake im inventing statistics

you have a fear causing unit with strength 7. you attack a non fear causing unit with strength 10.

if we make fear simply give +15% strength then the combat will be 8.05 (rounded to 8)vs 10

HOWEVER if we make the OPPONENT (the one being attacked by a fear causing unit) get -15% strength the combat will be 7 vs 8.5.

similarly if your strength 7 fear causing unit is attacked by a strength 10 unit the combat will be as above.

my proposal is WEAKENING the enemy because it is SCARED of you. your proposal is making your STRONGER whereas the unit which should be afraid has no change, that is just dumb.

I'd like to see a little bit of marsh, but less than before.

ill see what i can do.
 
Yeah I'm a big fan of having some Marsh and Wetland in random maps for some variety versus the swaths of generic "good" Grassland/Plains (in addition to not having to change the few common events that use them lol). I didn't even mind having the occasional big chunks of it that much, though I'd prefer slightly less if it's easy to do. Maybe you could try setting Marsh bFoundFreshWater in Civ4TerrainInfos to 1.

I'd agree with the idea to make the Marsh more like the FfH Marshes so it will have some potential uses - I think if you just copy over the stats in Civ4TerrainInfos.xml and steal the appropriate FfH artdef file you won't have to mess with making new terrain types.

Also, maybe Greenskin civs could get an extra yield from Marsh. I like the idea of having some terrain that is fairly marginal for most civs but more livable for certain others; I think the earlier suggestion of a + yield from Tundra for Kislev could also be worth a try.
 
I think the earlier suggestion of a + yield from Tundra for Kislev could also be worth a try.

i actually cant figure out how to do this... i know its in FfH for the Illians but i cant find any line in the python that mentions it which makes me suspect SDK changes... any clue how to do this in python?

I'd agree with the idea to make the Marsh more like the FfH Marshes so it will have some potential uses - I think if you just copy over the stats in Civ4TerrainInfos.xml and steal the appropriate FfH artdef file you won't have to mess with making new terrain types.

ill give it a shot... but the last time i tried messing with a new terrain type i killed my version of the mod... so im going to have to do some mega backups :p

Also, maybe Greenskin civs could get an extra yield from Marsh.

Dont forget skaven!
 
Success! i got the FfH marsh graphics and the marsh seems to not be spawning overly often. i also enabled rice, pigs, toads, fur and breeding grounds to spawn in Marsh tiles, and made them give +1 hammer, +15% defence and +25% costruction time to improvements.
 
great! time for a celebratory Marsh dance
:woohoo:

any clue how to do this in python?
not sure.. it might be easier just to give them a unique improvement (Igloos? lol) buildable on their "favorite" terrain.
 
ok, the difference is this:
you have a fear causing unit with strength 7. you attack a non fear causing unit with strength 10.
if we make fear simply give +15% strength then the combat will be 8.05 (rounded to 8)vs 10
HOWEVER if we make the OPPONENT (the one being attacked by a fear causing unit) get -15% strength the combat will be 7 vs 8.5.
similarly if your strength 7 fear causing unit is attacked by a strength 10 unit the combat will be as above.
my proposal is WEAKENING the enemy because it is SCARED of you. your proposal is making your STRONGER whereas the unit which should be afraid has no change, that is just dumb.

Ahh, I see.
I am utterly indifferent between the two; they actually have identical effects. Remember that the probability of a unit of strength x winning a round of combat against a unit of strength y is x/(x+y).
So, using your 7 and 10 strength, and 15% fear effect, we have:
"My system": 7*1.15 vs 10, win chance of 7*1.15/(7*1.15+10) = 0.445983
"Your system": 7 vs 10/1.15, win chance of 7/(7+10/1.15) = 0.445983

The point is: a strength bonus for me is completely equivalent to a strength penalty for you. Only the relative proportional strengths matter: strength 4 vs strength 2 is the same as strength 14 vs strength 7.

I care only about outcome; the two have the same outcome, so just go with whichever you think is easier to code.
Success! i got the FfH marsh graphics and the marsh seems to not be spawning overly often. i also enabled rice, pigs, toads, fur and breeding grounds to spawn in Marsh tiles, and made them give +1 hammer, +15% defence and +25% costruction time to improvements.

Awesome. But I would think 1 food would make more sense than 1 hammer? You can gather some fish and grow some crops in marshes, but they don't contain much in the way of other useable resources.

I would think it would be trivial for Kael or Vehem to tell you how to get the Illian + from ice or Malakim plus from snow.
 
Awesome. But I would think 1 food would make more sense than 1 hammer? You can gather some fish and grow some crops in marshes, but they don't contain much in the way of other useable resources.

i was actually thinking of marshes as peat bogs (Peat can be a valuable construction material where it is found and also great for fire) where as i see wetlands as the fertile animal filled lagoons and such. i dont mind either way so ill go with majority rules.

I would think it would be trivial for Kael or Vehem to tell you how to get the Illian + from ice or Malakim plus from snow.

probably, ill ask kael when i ask if he will be able to lend us a hand seeing as FfH is so close to being finished.
 
was actually thinking of marshes as peat bogs (Peat can be a valuable construction material where it is found and also great for fire) where as i see wetlands as the fertile animal filled lagoons and such. i dont mind either way so ill go with majority rules.

Ok. I'm also relatively indifferent. More hammers from something that isn't hills probably isn't a bad idea. Can your marshes have farms/cottages/waterwheels built on them if adjacent to rivers?
 
Can your marshes have farms/cottages/waterwheels built on them if adjacent to rivers?

i havent prevented it. and i have made rice pigs and a few other resources spawn of marsh so yeh improvements can still be built on it
 
was actually thinking of marshes as peat bogs (Peat can be a valuable construction material where it is found and also great for fire) where as i see wetlands as the fertile animal filled lagoons and such. i dont mind either way so ill go with majority rules.
LOL I made a Peat Bog common event. I'd vote for +1 food though I dont mind much either way. Hopefully buildable improvements on Marsh/Wetland will not be too much, with Towns or Irrigated Farms they would be almost the same yield as Plains/Grassland late-game.
 
LOL I made a Peat Bog common event. I'd vote for +1 food though I dont mind much either way. Hopefully buildable improvements on Marsh/Wetland will not be too much, with Towns or Irrigated Farms they would be almost the same yield as Plains/Grassland late-game.

i could reintroduce the mud terrain feature (like floodplains) which gives unhealthyness... i have it commented out for simplicitys sake. if i do bring that back we would have to re do any marsh event to incorperate the addition/removal of mud, as well as the mistress of the marsh spell.

i could block some improvements from being built on marsh (cottages and watch towers/forts etc?)
 
Hmm.. actually, i think that FEATURE_MUD mechanic could come in really handy if you want people to become able to partly drain the Marsh terrain in the mid-late game. (You could change the display name of FEATURE_MUD to Bog, it was currently also named Marsh which causes confusion.) Just reactivate the existing FEATURE_MUD, and add a Worker Build command to drain the unhealthy Feature while leaving the base Marsh terrain.

Spoiler :
<BuildInfo>
<Type>BUILD_DRAIN_BOG</Type>
<Description>Drain Bog</Description>
<Help/>
<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
<iTime>0</iTime>
<iCost>0</iCost>
<bKill>0</bKill>
<ImprovementType>NONE</ImprovementType>
<RouteType>NONE</RouteType>
<EntityEvent>ENTITY_EVENT_CHOP</EntityEvent>
<FeatureStructs>
<FeatureStruct>
<FeatureType>FEATURE_MUD</FeatureType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ENGINEERING</PrereqTech>
<iTime>1200</iTime>
<iProduction>0</iProduction>
<bRemove>1</bRemove>
</FeatureStruct>
</FeatureStructs>
<HotKey>KB_C</HotKey>
<bAltDown>1</bAltDown>
<bShiftDown>0</bShiftDown>
<bCtrlDown>0</bCtrlDown>
<iHotKeyPriority>0</iHotKeyPriority>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Builds/BuildChopDown.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Actions_Builds_LeaderHeads_Specialists_Atlas.dds,7,8</Button>
</BuildInfo>

I actually had to give up on the suggested Marsh Draining event by Gnomish engineers because there's no Terrain change tag in EventInfos and a python call couldn't retain the plot trigger correctly; draining by removing a Feature though would be a snap. If you want, it would also be possible to have Cavalry units unable to enter an undrained tile, but be able to enter a drained tile (no Bog) while still getting some penalties from the Marsh itself; that could make for some interesting tactics.. It looks like some of the existing movement penalty and defensive bonus already comes from FEATURE_MUD rather than TERRAIN_MARSH.

i could block some improvements from being built on marsh (cottages and watch towers/forts etc?)
We'll probably have to playtest it & see what works best.. By using FeatureStruct in Civ4BuildInfos like with the other improvements, you could have some improvements like Farm be buildable on Bogs at an earlier tech without removing the Bog,

Spoiler :

<FeatureStructs>
<FeatureStruct>
<FeatureType>FEATURE_MUD</FeatureType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_CALENDAR</PrereqTech>
<iTime>200</iTime>
<iProduction>0</iProduction>
<bRemove>0</bRemove>
</FeatureStruct>
</FeatureStructs>


and others like Cottage that can be built only with Engineering to drain the Bog:
Spoiler :

<FeatureStructs>
<FeatureStruct>
<FeatureType>FEATURE_MUD</FeatureType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ENGINEERING</PrereqTech>
<iTime>1200</iTime>
<iProduction>0</iProduction>
<bRemove>1</bRemove>
</FeatureStruct>
</FeatureStructs>


edit: also give FEATURE_MUD bAddsFreshWater=1 and undrained Marshes will finally spread Fresh Water like they were intended.
 
Hello everyone, my thread has nothing to do with your marsh problems ^^
It's about a bug that happens quite often to me : while playing on the standard map of the patch a on windows vista , when my turn is over I click on enter and then I could wait a month before I have my turn back. What's strange is that with the "world" icon that you have when the other players a doing their stuff I can clik on the main menu,going to the civilopedia...Actually I can do nearly everything except select my units. When this bug happens I try to load a previous game but this bugs ALWAYS happens at the same time (in my current game turn : 132) If anybody knows what it is and how to fix it I'll be glad :D Good day to you
 
This mod looks excellent but I had a repeating crash about 75 turns in - here is my savegame:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mb9j1h

Version 1.5, not using Patch A.

If I installed it now would it break the savegame compatibility?


edit:

ThemeParseLog.txt says:
[Dec 29, 2008 - 22:38:02] Messages while processing 'Mods/Warhammer/Resource/Civ4.thm'

Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:401, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size3_Italic' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:402, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size3_BoldItalic' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Common.thm', Ln:408, Col:13) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size1_Bold' not found
Error : Decl - ('Civ4Theme_Window.thm', Ln:3048, Col:9) Assignment source propertyId 'SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font_Size1_Bold' not found
Error : Syntax - ('Civ4Theme_HUD.thm', Ln:887, Col:13) Unexpected '.' in the identifier assignment statement
Error : Syntax - ('Civ4Theme_HUD.thm', Ln:927, Col:13) Unexpected '.' in the identifier assignment statement
 
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