There definitely appears to be a lack of early war in BNW

I noticed there is more propensity for war and less DoFs when the map puts Civ's closer together. capitals within 10 tiles for instance. which occurs on standard pangea (wrong spell :()
 
In just over a dozen full games (Standard Emperor) I have also seen plenty of early (pre-Renaissance) war whether it is AI v AI or an AI coming at me. If I exclude games where *I* have initiated war early, I'm still seeing some form of early war roughly half of the time.
 
A lot of this probably has to do with how sheer territory just...isn't very valuable anymore. Now that a city alone doesn't have that much gold going for it, and the economy of your empire is based less on local prosperity and more on global variables, there's only so much you can conquer early on, and you won't get much reward for it. You don't want another city because it will bankrupt you, and the AI isn't coded for managing and limiting growth well. Back when rivers and ocean tiles had gold to offer, land paid for itself eventually, but now that most of your money comes from trade routes that have a hard cap on them, it's less likely to do that for a long time, because you don't have options to expand your economy well as your land expands.
 
I suggest; in the next patch add a "Aggressive AI" option in the Advance Set-up Menu.
not everyone loves diplomacy, Some people like me who are warmongers :evil: , we love early wars.
And if you say "Why don't you be the one to make DoW" ; its not cool if your the one who make DoW there is no surprise & exitement.
 
I suggest; in the next patch add a "Aggressive AI" option in the Advance Set-up Menu.
not everyone loves diplomacy, Some people like me who are warmongers :evil: , we love early wars.
that sounds like a good idea

And if you say "Why don't you be the one to make DoW" ; its not cool if your the one who make DoW there is no surprise & exitement.
In G&Ks, you KNEW which AI was going to declare on you, and precisely when, give or take 5-10 turns. I don't really see the surprise & excitement element there at all. I personally believe there's more of a element of surprise now.
 
Immortal hasn't been effected :p Try playing a difficulty below that and i'm sure you'll be shocked
I usually play Immortal but I just tried dropping the difficulty to Emperor to see what all the fuss was about and oh my. Not only was there no early war, there was no war full stop. Not a single AI declaration from start to finish. The whole world was one giant ring of friendship.


Until turn 230, when I slaughtered everyone with nukes/bombers/xcoms.
 
It indeed depends, i have experience of two scenerios:
1. Me and 4AI on one continent which is not even big enought, some agressive civs among them (China, Monty, Songhai). If i forget about army around T70 someone pays me a visit.
2. Some continent, but just 3 AI, and suddently there is much more space, for 150T clicfest and happy building.

So basicly it comes to space.
If you feel like there is too peacefull there is always a option to add 1...2...3... more AIs. Or make sure that some of them will be troublemakers.
 
In G&Ks, you KNEW which AI was going to declare on you, and precisely when, give or take 5-10 turns. I don't really see the surprise & excitement element there at all. I personally believe there's more of a element of surprise now.
yeah, i know that, you know when somebody gonna DoW on you but, you don't know what turn it will be. would it be in the next 10 turns? would it be in the nest 5 turns would it be in the next turn?
Most of the time i was surprise when some neighboring civs declare on me on GnK, especially if you are busy building Buildings and Wonders, in which you just keep clicking "NEXT TURN" coz you are in hury, coz you got some other plans. IYKWIM :)
 
I usually play Immortal but I just tried dropping the difficulty to Emperor to see what all the fuss was about and oh my. Not only was there no early war, there was no war full stop. Not a single AI declaration from start to finish. The whole world was one giant ring of friendship.


Until turn 230, when I slaughtered everyone with nukes/bombers/xcoms.

And there we have it. I think that is where the biggest difference of opinion is occurring: over difficulty boundaries.

Weird isn't it :confused: It just doesn't feel like it's supposed to happen with such a big difference to immortal
 
I usually play Immortal but I just tried dropping the difficulty to Emperor to see what all the fuss was about and oh my. Not only was there no early war, there was no war full stop. Not a single AI declaration from start to finish. The whole world was one giant ring of friendship.


Until turn 230, when I slaughtered everyone with nukes/bombers/xcoms.

Doesn't this all depend? I am on a King game Standard Continents playing Spain. Space was tight. There was no early war but right before Medieval Denmark declares War on Portugal takes the City closest to the him. They make peace, get gifted a City farther away from them and razed it. Then declares War on Alexander and wipes him out. Now the other Civs getting pissed. I declare war on Portugal finish them off. Egypt and Russia declare war on the Danes and I take that opportunity to declare war on Egypt and am about to wipe them out. Only the Byzantines and Ottomans on other continents are left alone. Quite a bit of war in a King game in the early-middle game.

Denmark went Honor and was planning warring from the start bullying all the CS from the beginning. No one was really friendly in the early game except Denmark and Russia but once Denmark started warring that was over. I think space factored with the AI's in this game and the propensity for being friendly or making DOF's which didn't really happen in this game.

On the other hand I had another game where everyone was friendly and making DOF's left and right from the beginning and there was no war except Mongolia taking CS until Modern when Japan went all crazy on Mongolia and France but it was too late in the game and that was it for the entire game.

I am planning on bumping up to Emperor next but my current game felt fairly realistic in the war game. Having said all of that I do think an early war should be viable when needed but it seems like between barbarians and getting your economy going this is very difficult and hard to do in the early game and that bums me out for Civ's with an early UU. If you can only use them against barbarians because it is not worth going to war early for the player or for the AI if they are not going to declare war on you and take advantage of the early UU it seems to be a waste.

I think what they have done in BNW has been a huge improvement but will concede early war should still be a strong option and it really doesn't feel like it right now. I always feel like it is a better option to get my economy and infrastructure going then war later in the game. I think barbarians should be ramped down a little bit and building a larger early army and taking a city or two early shouldn't ruin your happy and economy so much in the early game.
 
One game really isn't a good sample size to compare Emperor and Immortal.

I do notice even on Immortal civs are a bit soft. They will still DoW you though if they don't like you enough and have a ridiculously larger military than yours.

It's just trade routes maintain that hostility by a lot. Sometimes one moment they're coveting your lands and the next, when you throw a trade route at them, they become friendly and want DoFs (they won't even betray you either unless they're Germany/Russia/Ottomans/etc).
 
I've played maybe 15 games to the end so far in BNW on Emperor, 3 of which I went all out war and neglected any friendly diplomacy and still won. From my experience, early war is amazing when managed correctly. AI is still aggressive and there are early wars for certain games (all depends on the Civs and the situation).
 
The fact I can win on Deity by turn 79, duel, Standard with Atilla speaks volumes at the AI's desire for early warfare.

They decide to do what is best for their advantages with happiness and city sprawl. My 79 turn game had the Netherlands pop up 3 cities by the time I pinched his capital.

I had a second deity game, tiny (2 vs 2 - my Ally contributed nothing but science which I didn't really use after getting my horse archers), standard. I won this by turn 95 and I had to take out two opponents. Admittedly it got tougher taking out the last person since they had swordsman and composite bows.

Maybe Atilla is just over-powered early game wars and it's extremely easy for him. But it's shown me the AI really doesn't see any bonuses in early game fighting.
 
The fact I can win on Deity by turn 79, duel, Standard with Atilla speaks volumes at the AI's desire for early warfare.

They decide to do what is best for their advantages with happiness and city sprawl. My 79 turn game had the Netherlands pop up 3 cities by the time I pinched his capital.

I had a second deity game, tiny (2 vs 2 - my Ally contributed nothing but science which I didn't really use after getting my horse archers), standard. I won this by turn 95 and I had to take out two opponents. Admittedly it got tougher taking out the last person since they had swordsman and composite bows.

Maybe Atilla is just over-powered early game wars and it's extremely easy for him. But it's shown me the AI really doesn't see any bonuses in early game fighting.

I don't get it. Playing duel maps, I expect earlier victories especially with domination. And you picked Attila, so you're gaming the system. These are bad examples you're providing.

Also, what do you expect from AI? Do you want them to rush you with warriors and archers? Cause that would be stupid, and then you'd be complaining about how bad the AI is for rushing with a army like they did in GnK.
 
Today Napoleon on Emperor hit me with a huge army of warriors, two catapults and a few archers without reason - he even was friendly when we made peace after I destroyed that army.

It really depends on who you spawn next to.
 
Today Napoleon on Emperor hit me with a huge army of warriors, two catapults and a few archers without reason - he even was friendly when we made peace after I destroyed that army.

It really depends on who you spawn next to.

Last game I spawned between Russia or one side, and on a tiny peninsula with space for 6 cities alongside Carthage and Attila (who's capital was 5 tiles from mine).

Russia only declared on my in the late renaissance. Carthage and Attila were friendly with me the entire game.

All my wut. I've had this sort of thing so many times now :(
 
Did they war someone else?

No-one. All game. There were three wars in its entirety. One was me vs Russia, one was America and Poland vs Mayans, one was Byzantium vs Mongolia. Only four cities were taken all game (2 by me) and no-one was knocked out.

Additionally i was pissing off the americans all game, land encroaching, warmongering against their neighbour russia, stealing city state allies, spreading my religion in his territories. Well not only was he friendly with me throughout the whole game despite this, he also (with a complete religion of his own spread through half of the continent we shared) voted for my religion to be the world religion. It was very puzzling. :confused:
 
Well, while I don't agree that there isn't any war in BNW, I'll say it's towned down a lot. I did just ragequit a game with Poland where the other civ's were Ethiopia, Austria, Portugal, Korea, and Maya. It wound up being a smallish map as well, so it was really bad for me, as most of the civ's do well with small empires. With no war, their growth was unstifled and wonder opportunities went up like smoke left and right. When I hit industrial and there was no coal in sight, I was done. Well, that and hemoraging unhappiness for no apparent reason.
 
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