Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

When the new buildings are released, if you have the capability to build both a Nuclear power plant and a Solar power plant, will you only be able to build one or the other? Or will it replace Nuclear/Hydro plants all together once it becomes available?
 
BlueTemplar said:
I'm sorry, but the maintenance make no sense. "Maintenance" in Civ4 means _government_ maintenance, which increases with the number of cities and complex civics. Things that make communication easier should reduce maintenance instead. Ditto for most of the other +% maintenance buildings.
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The Telephone Network is not mine; it's from many versions before, probably back all the way to RoM. I modeled the Telegraph Office after the Telephone Network so that there are no penalties for upgrading from the Office to the Network. For me, maintenance is city maintenance, so it does make some sense that large-scale systems require some money in maintenance, but if the building improves commerce more, then it becomes worthwhile.

BlueTemplar said:
As for the Solar Power plant, it seems to me that the best way to balance it would be to make it a terrain improvement : that way it has a penalty in taking away a workable terrain space (which represents well the large land needs of such power plants) and is not better than Fusion.
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Theoretically possible, but I think just too complicated for gameplay. You would need to have a separate improvement and building, and you can't put latitude limits on improvements -- so you would have a nearly useless terrain improvement at above 30 degrees.
 
Rezca said:
When the new buildings are released, if you have the capability to build both a Nuclear power plant and a Solar power plant, will you only be able to build one or the other? Or will it replace Nuclear/Hydro plants all together once it becomes available?
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Solar should probably replace Nuclear; I can fix that. Hydro and Solar can coexist; while you probably would never need to build both, you could if the city met the conditions and you would only lose out on the 1 extra citizen needed to work the redundant power plant.
 
Vokarya said:
Solar should probably replace Nuclear; I can fix that. Hydro and Solar can coexist; while you probably would never need to build both, you could if the city met the conditions and you would only lose out on the 1 extra citizen needed to work the redundant power plant.
Click to expand...

No probably not, but buildings can be sold so if for some reason you wanted one but not the other you could just tear down the one you didn't want anymore and build the other :)



I was kind of wondering about redundant/replaced power plants earlier when I suddenly realized the only kind I could build were Nuclear, when I wanted to build an Oil plant in the city since I was worried about the meltdown (Ecology is ages away, and I've got absolutley terrible luck with meltdowns!) so didn't want to put them near my capitol.
Unchecking 'Hide Replaced Buildings" didn't do anything (Is it supposed to?) so i just went ahead and gave in. So far no meltdown, but I'm still beside myself with panic ^^
 
I like the idea of Arsenal , It make senses that artillery requires special buildings to speed up the construction.

I feel that's missing in Modern era, something like Military test field building for more experience or speed up in Logistic or Manufacturing maybe.

What do you think?
 
edua234 said:
I like the idea of Arsenal , It make senses that artillery requires special buildings to speed up the construction.

I feel that's missing in Modern era, something like Military test field building for more experience or speed up in Logistic or Manufacturing maybe.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

That's what the Military Base and the Combat Simulators are for. Those will show up in the late-Industrial to Modern eras. And the Arsenal stays valid until the end of the game.
 
Some thoughts on early buildings.

Story Circle: Obsoletes way too quickly, can barely build it before it's gone, change obsolescence to Literature, people still told stories after having written languages but Literature implies that written words have become the main means of cultural transfer. Otherwise very good.

Graveyard: Like the Concept and connection with Ceremonial Burial, Mortuary areas are one of the first strong archaeological signs of permanent habitation at a site. I find it to be too expensive though and the health bonus is a bit silly (people knew not to leave rotting corpses around before they had as much ritual around the burial). Archeologist believe that the connection with ancestors was a key part of sedentary peoples connection with and symbolic ownership of their land (to this day people fight to defend the "land where my fathers died") so a defense bonus might be appropriate. If so then Castle or the Catacombs could replace Graveyard and carry the defense bonus onward.

Healers Hut: Would like it to be cheaper, way cheaper even if it's reduced to 1 Health.

Jeweler: This building is way too good, I can consistently solve all my money problems when it appears, as having at least 2 of the (gold/silver/gems) resource and the +15% bonus gives me 4-6 gold and an equal amount of beakers. Simply a must have and it's a bit boring because of it. Recommend reducing the per resource bonus to 1 gold rather then 2 commerce, or making the resource bonuses require the resource to be in the city limits (I favor 1 gold).

Monument: Way too expensive for how early it is in the game, I know you have a lot of Happiness bonuses on this with certain civics but this should not be factored into the cost. The Civics should have higher upkeep's or something else to balance it. Cut the building to half it's present cost.

Ceremonial Altar: Again way too pricy for where it is in the tech tree, I would never build this when things like Forge and SlaveMarket are cheaper. I'ts basically a non-denominational temple but it's only got 1 happiness on it reliably, if I'm without my own religion then I should have to go with inferior substitutes don't make it equal in cost nearly the same as a real temple. Better yet how about giving it some kind of synergy such that it can still be useful with regular temples like a bonus for priests.

Butchery: I like the general idea of this but it tends to be a feast or famine building, get more then 2 animal meats and your population is off like a rocket, lose out on animals cause of start location and you wither. It just needs to be more consistent in it's effects, if the bonus food could function on an OR basis so any number of meats would be +3 food that would be good (same approach would work for LOTS of buildings and corporations BTW).
 
Impaler[WrG];12936536 said:
Some thoughts on early buildings.

Story Circle: Obsoletes way too quickly, can barely build it before it's gone, change obsolescence to Literature, people still told stories after having written languages but Literature implies that written words have become the main means of cultural transfer. Otherwise very good.

Graveyard: Like the Concept and connection with Ceremonial Burial, Mortuary areas are one of the first strong archaeological signs of permanent habitation at a site. I find it to be too expensive though and the health bonus is a bit silly (people knew not to leave rotting corpses around before they had as much ritual around the burial). Archeologist believe that the connection with ancestors was a key part of sedentary peoples connection with and symbolic ownership of their land (to this day people fight to defend the "land where my fathers died") so a defense bonus might be appropriate. If so then Castle or the Catacombs could replace Graveyard and carry the defense bonus onward.

Healers Hut: Would like it to be cheaper, way cheaper even if it's reduced to 1 Health.

Jeweler: This building is way too good, I can consistently solve all my money problems when it appears, as having at least 2 of the (gold/silver/gems) resource and the +15% bonus gives me 4-6 gold and an equal amount of beakers. Simply a must have and it's a bit boring because of it. Recommend reducing the per resource bonus to 1 gold rather then 2 commerce, or making the resource bonuses require the resource to be in the city limits (I favor 1 gold).

Monument: Way too expensive for how early it is in the game, I know you have a lot of Happiness bonuses on this with certain civics but this should not be factored into the cost. The Civics should have higher upkeep's or something else to balance it. Cut the building to half it's present cost.

Ceremonial Altar: Again way too pricy for where it is in the tech tree, I would never build this when things like Forge and SlaveMarket are cheaper. I'ts basically a non-denominational temple but it's only got 1 happiness on it reliably, if I'm without my own religion then I should have to go with inferior substitutes don't make it equal in cost nearly the same as a real temple. Better yet how about giving it some kind of synergy such that it can still be useful with regular temples like a bonus for priests.

Butchery: I like the general idea of this but it tends to be a feast or famine building, get more then 2 animal meats and your population is off like a rocket, lose out on animals cause of start location and you wither. It just needs to be more consistent in it's effects, if the bonus food could function on an OR basis so any number of meats would be +3 food that would be good (same approach would work for LOTS of buildings and corporations BTW).
Click to expand...

For the moment I'd like to leave things as they are at least for the too cheap/too expensive part; that depends on balancing, which in turns depends on gamespeed, mapsize, handicap and so on, and I'm working on it. But I'm considering suggestion for buildings obsoleting too soon or too late :) Thank you Impaler[WrG]
 
Vokarya said:
With the Arsenal, the Siege Weapons Workshop and Cannon Forge would actually never go obsolete, but the Arsenal would replace them at the middle of the Industrial Era.
Click to expand...

I'm testing the game now and I see things that could be enhanced. For example, it looks a bit strange to me to be able to build a Siege Weapons Workshop in modern era... shouldn't we allow it to go obsolete sooner or later?
 
I was thinking about the Storyteller's Circle and the Elder Council...

Instead of having the items obsolete at Writing, can it be "Discontinued" at Writing and thus cannot be built anymore, but existing Storyteller Circles and Elder Councils will continue to provide their small bonus until a later tech like Literature?
 
Rezca said:
I was thinking about the Storyteller's Circle and the Elder Council...

Instead of having the items obsolete at Writing, can it be "Discontinued" at Writing and thus cannot be built anymore, but existing Storyteller Circles and Elder Councils will continue to provide their small bonus until a later tech like Literature?
Click to expand...

Let's see what Vokarya says about it; I'm not against it, it could be a good idea.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12949062 said:
I'm testing the game now and I see things that could be enhanced. For example, it looks a bit strange to me to be able to build a Siege Weapons Workshop in modern era... shouldn't we allow it to go obsolete sooner or later?
Click to expand...

Sooner, i think.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12949062 said:
I'm testing the game now and I see things that could be enhanced. For example, it looks a bit strange to me to be able to build a Siege Weapons Workshop in modern era... shouldn't we allow it to go obsolete sooner or later?
Click to expand...

Actually, that's to give you a fallback position if you don't have the resources to build a Cannon Forge or Arsenal. If you have the resources to build Bombard or Cannon, then Cannon Forge should also be available, and if you have the resources to build anything better, then Arsenal should be available. Do you have the capability to build either?
 
Vokarya said:
Actually, that's to give you a fallback position if you don't have the resources to build a Cannon Forge or Arsenal. If you have the resources to build Bombard or Cannon, then Cannon Forge should also be available, and if you have the resources to build anything better, then Arsenal should be available. Do you have the capability to build either?
Click to expand...



I can build them all. I get yuor point but since they all build offensive weapons, it doesn't look very useful to me...I wouldn't probably use trebuchets to attack another city defended by musketmen or better, would you?
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12951557 said:
I can build them all. I get yuor point but since they all build offensive weapons, it doesn't look very useful to me...I wouldn't probably use trebuchets to attack another city defended by musketmen or better, would you?
Click to expand...

That's actually exactly what happened in my previous game :)
My main cities could build Bombards, but the barbarian cities I was capturing on the other side of the world got cut off from my resources because of Greece's expanding borders and suddenly they could only build Trebuchets. So I just built several stacks of those so I could still bring down the defenses of cities and then upgrade them once I was able to again. ^^
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12951557 said:
I can build them all. I get yuor point but since they all build offensive weapons, it doesn't look very useful to me...I wouldn't probably use trebuchets to attack another city defended by musketmen or better, would you?
Click to expand...

If, as has been stated, that's all I had available and needed that city defense brought down yes I would. Most definitely. Otherwise wouldn't it be just admitting defeat? He's got superior units therefore I'm doomed kind of thing.

JosEPh
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12951557 said:
I can build them all. I get yuor point but since they all build offensive weapons, it doesn't look very useful to me...I wouldn't probably use trebuchets to attack another city defended by musketmen or better, would you?
Click to expand...

Do you play with Hide Replaced Buildings on? I do. I think if you don't use that option, then all 3 are visible, but if you do use that option, then you should only be seeing the Arsenal once you can build it. That's what I was trying to accomplish.
 
I don't use Hide Replaced Buildings anymore from past experiences with missing needed early buildings for new cities latter in the game. Maybe that's not a problem anymore but I'd rather not have to worry over it.

JosEPh
 
A couple of thoughts I have had in response to some posts on the early buildings:

Storyteller Circle: The reason it goes obsolete so quickly is that I wanted it to mirror the Elder Council without trampling on the EC's territory (this is why Storyteller Circle has no Science bonus). I saw the "Discontinued" mechanic in Realism Invictus, but I think it's too clunky to be good. I would prefer to keep it where it is, and maybe cut the costs even further.

Ceremonial Altar: I agree that this and other early buildings should be cheaper. What if we cut the cost in half but made it so that any Temple replaces the Ceremonial Altar? One thing about adding buildings is that health/happy bonuses can stack up and make unhealth/unhappiness trivial without a lot more work to swing the pendulum the other way. I'd like to tie the Altar into some other mechanic (I'm really fond of getting buildings to link together).
 
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