Brainstorming Thread - One-Trick-Pony Techs

I'm posting a brainstorming thread to put some more content on technologies that offer very few benefits for researching them. I really feel that we should not have any empty "filler" techs or even techs that only offer one benefit for researching them. Choosing techs should be choosing among the benefits available and not just slogging through filler.

Techs that I want to look at are techs that have more than one major trick or two minor tricks.

Major tricks are the big benefits for researching a new tech. Here's what I count as a major trick:

• New building
• New Wonder
• New unit
• New Civic
• New diplomacy option
• New improvement
• New worker action
• New religion
• Reveal a strategic resource
• Domain-wide bonus (+X% worker speed, +X Water Moves, +X Air Range)
• Bonus to all cities (+X Health, +X Happiness, +X Trade Routes)

Minor tricks count as half a major trick. This is what I count as a minor trick:

• Reveal a Luxury or Health resource
• New promotion
• Bonus to existing building, improvement, or unit (for improvements, each yield counts as a minor trick, so Printing Press's +1 from Village and Town is a single minor trick, but Weather Forecasting's +1 and +1 from Fishing Boats and Whaling Boats counts as two minor tricks).
• Building or unit from a later era (example: Elephant Riding counts the Ancient Era Elephant Rider as a major trick, but the Classical Era War Elephant and Renaissance Era Elephant Bombardier count as minor tricks)

The list of techs to flesh out is largely the Modern and Transhuman Eras. They cover almost two-thirds of the techs that need attention. These are the pre-Modern techs that need attention and what they currently do have to offer.

Ancient Era

• Storytelling: Storyteller Circle building
• Caste System: Caste civic

Medieval Era

• Paper: University of Sankore Wonder and Paper Mill National Wonder

Renaissance Era

• Humanism: Secular civic
• Battlefield Medicine: Pharmacy building
• Cavalry Tactics: Cuirassier unit and Dragoon unit
• Chemistry: +1 from Workshop and Subsidized civic
• Weather Forecasting: +1 and +1 from Fishing Boats and Whaling Boats

Industrial Era

• Thermodynamics: Cement Mill national wonder
• Telegraph: Telegraph Office building and Ambassador unit
• Public Health: Water Purification Plant building and Subsidized civic
• Relativity: Einstein's Laboratory wonder
• Quantum Physics: Uranium resource revealed
• Submarine Warfare: Submarine unit

Update: Added Thermodynamics (no longer grants a free Great Scientist).
Update 2: Removed Paper (created Paper Mill)
Update 3: Removed Mounted Archery tech completely, removed Public Health (moved Subsidized civic)
Update 4: Removed Cavalry Tactics (created Dragoon)
Update 5: Removed Chemistry (created Laboratory), Telegraph (created Ambassador), and renamed Relativity

The Modern and Transhuman Eras have more techs that need attention. The Modern Era has the only currently empty tech (Neural Networks).

Modern Era

• Modern Physics: Laboratory building
• Modern Health Care: Centers for Disease Control Wonder and Penicillin project
• Conglomerates: World Trade Center Wonder and moved Great Merchant from Applied Economics
• 3D Modeling: Design Studio building
• Computer Networks: Computer Network building and Mapster moved from Computers
• Climate Models: +2 range for Air units
• Fiber Optics: Internet project
• Hydroponics: Hydroponic Farm building
• Microprocessor: Solar Plant building
• Superconductors: Supercollider Wonder
• Magnetic Levitation: Maglev improvement
• Quantum Teleportation: Quantum Lab building

Transhuman Era

• Automated Traffic: Personal Rapid Train building and Rover unit
• Brain-Machine Interface: Bioenhancement Center building
• Mesh Networks: Advanced Quality Control building
• Hypersonic Flight: Aurora Scramjet unit and Aerospace Complex moved from Orbital Flight
• Thought Scanning: Mind-Control Center building and Great Diplomat added
• Anti-Aging Medicine: Longevity project
• Bionics: Automatons unit
• Cybernetics: Cyborg unit
• Regenerative Medicine: Genetic Soldier unit and Regenerator building
• Smart Drugs: Research Hospital Wonder and +2 from Pharmacy
• Nanomining: +1 and +1 from Modern Mine, Offshore Platform, and Well and Deep Core Mine national wonder
• Cryogenics: SS Stasis Chamber project
• Interstellar Travel: SS Thrusters project and Starport building

Update: Removed 4 techs from one-trick-pony status, added Modern Physics (used to have a free Great Scientist, but that was removed).
Update 2: Removed Computer Networks (Mapster moved from Computers).
Update 3: Changed second trick for Modern Health Care, removed Space Tourism tech completely.
Update 4: Removed Automated Traffic (created Hovercar unit)
Update 5: Removed Neural Networks tech completely, removed Conglomerates (moved Great Merchant over from Applied Economics), Regenerative Medicine (created Regenerator), Nanomining (created Deep Core Mine), Thought Scanning (Great Diplomat added)

I have been thinking of a few thing that I would like to do to help particular techs.

Paper: Could we introduce Paper as a resource? It would not be required for anything, but would give +50% production speed to School of Scribes, Library, University, School, Printer, Press Agency and Publishing House. The Paper Mill would be a National Wonder like the Glassmith and Chemical Plant.

Cavalry Tactics: The Dragoon unit. This would be the early-Renaissance equivalent of the Mounted Infantry -- a Mounted unit without the Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses common on Mounted units. This would be the midpoint of an entire "Mobile Defense" line: Mounted Infantry - Man-At-Arms (available with Heraldry) - Dragoon - Mounted Rifleman (available with Rifling) - Motorized Infantry (available with Automatic Weapons plus Automobile) - Mechanized Infantry. I would have to do a lot of work with unit art to get these completed.

Public Health: I think we could move the Subsidized Civic from Representative Democracy to here. Rep Dem would keep the Democracy and President civics, keeping it out of one-trick-pony status even if it lost Subsidized.

Regenerative Medicine: Regenerator building. This would be a + building (possibly replacing the Hospital) but would also restore X (I'm guessing 3) units per turn to full health, using the same mechanic as the Herbalist building (which is part of the Expanded Castles component, so it has a pretty narrow window of existence, and I'm a big fan of using new mechanics more than once).

Hmm existing mechanics more than once...


Well I did have an idea in another thread about a 'Deep Core Mine' national wonder that would more or less be a second Ironworks but for the late Modern to early/mid Transhuman era, and instead of getting it's bonus from Iron and Coal it would get it from Geothermal Energy, and possibly Methane Ice or Bauxite Ore. The former two resources I believe are little to nothing more than plot modifiers and don't unlock/enable anything or speed up the production of anything, so I generally ignore them - especially the Methane Ice since they're often multiple tiles off the coast and not within working range.

The DCM would produce slight unhappiness when running the Environmentalism/Green civic, and possibly would be unlocked after researching Nanomining and/or Cybernetics. It may produce a slight commerce or production bonus when Teleportation is researched?


Neural Networks... Hm... Thinking a bit more on the sci-fi side of things, what about a promotion or somewhat along the lines of Neural Implants? A second level with Artificial Intelligence or Brain-Machine Interface when researched, as for what it'd do... Hm... Really not sure. First Strike related maybe. It'd be for infantry-type units I imagine.


Battlefield Medicine.... What about a Medic-themed unit?

Hydroponics maybe 'Cultivate Seaweed Forest' workboat action? +2 on the tile, or 1 and 1 can only be built on Coastal tiles and in or near the equator? Or instead of a workboat action, it could be a building of sorts for coastal cities, providing extra with Whale in the city vicinity, and +1


I like the idea of Paper increasing the production speed of Libraries, with or without a Paper resource.

So, a few ideas I got right now, freshly after reading the posts:
- Paper resource seems like a good idea to me. We might consider also creating for example Paper Mill building, that would be non-national wonder, and provide speed bonuses for building Library and the rest only in the city where it is located. But maybe that's just my dislike for the national wonders speaking?
- Dragoon unit is a perfect fit with Cuirassier on Cavalry Tactics; I'm not so sure about Man-at-Arms on that same line (I mean, the name sounds more like infantry to me), but the idea itself is as close to perfect as we get.
- I'm not sure about new civics (I mean, I have a few ideas floating around my brain for a new civics, especially for the later game techs, also because post-scarcity economy sounds just wrong to me; and I'm not sure if it is a wise idea to spend time cultivating those thoughts), but moving Subsidized seems like a good idea.
- Brain-Machine Interface could result in a building that goes along the lines of treating serious disabilities, for example providing a boost to commerce or production, as the previously disable people can work and live more normal lives; this building might have some side effects, like producing mild unhappiness (with all the half man, half machine people working around the city), and would be replaced by the Regeneration Clinic on the Regenerative Medicine, which would have similar effect, but without the unhappiness. This could even be made into three - step chain of buildings, for example with Telecommuting building at Fibre Optics, generating commerce. It might also require Modern Health Care or something similar (as it requires right attitude in employers).
- Idea of Hydroponics giving ability to create some sort of water based farm (and/or workshop, what with algae based biofuels?) seems very nice to me - it could also change game dynamics a little, as late - game coastal cities would start generating more commerce/production/food for themselves...

I'm going to think about it - and I will surely post some of my ideas (the better ones) here as soon as I get them.

I think for gameplay purposes I want to keep Paper Mill as a National Wonder, and to have most resource-producing buildings be NW. Otherwise the quantities produced get out of hand as empires get really big. If we can't do a Paper resource, we can still do +building construction % in all cities.

Also, the problem with creating new stuff for Hydroponics is that we also have a separate tech for Aquaculture. Fish Farm will be a new Aquaculture building, providing +1 to all River and Water tiles and serving as an upgrade to the Fisherman's Hut. I'm looking to do some work on finding buildings that don't seem to do anything and try to develop them a little.

Deep Core Mine is definitely possible; new Transhuman stuff is hard to come by, and putting it somewhere in there would be good even if it doesn't work for some of these techs.

I like Medic units, and would not have a problem with putting them in. The question is how far do we go with cutting off non-Medic units from Medic promotions. I do not want to neuter Red Cross. I like that as a National Wonder. The other possibility would be finding something else for Anatomy and switch Medic II over to Battlefield Medicine.

Hmm.... One other possibility for Hydroponics would be a 'Hydroponic Farm' building that can only be built in cities with either Desert or Tundra/Ice in their vicinity. An enclosed farm structure to produce additional food for the city in climates that would otherwise be ill-suited for farming?


The Medic unit could have a special promotion tree available only to them?

Well, I'm not sure as to where exactly in tech tree is Hydroponics, but since increased food production is going to be delegated to Aquaculture, maybe it would be a good idea to think about algae bio-fuels as as trick for Hydroponics? After a quick look at Wikipedia, it seems that it is a pretty viable option; maybe we could create Algae farm as a building, which would grant a small production bonus at a cost in food (as it uses up some agricultural land)? Or maybe a National Wonder Great algae resvoir that would grant Oil resource; it would come into play rather late, comparing to original Oil appearance, but it would allow the civs that were so far cut off from it to develop oil-based economy. It could also end up as a water-tile only improvement, granting a hammer. Does it make any sense? I could work a little bit more on that idea, if it's any good.

As for the medic-type units, I'm not sure if it's all that good idea - it depends on how much abstraction we want, really. But going that route, IMHO, would require remaking Medic promotions and creating additional promotion tree for the Medical units. My idea would be making old promotions centered on helping only the unit receiving them, or at least reducing the amount of healing done to friendly units (maybe give other small bonus instead, like improved defence or something similar?), while the Medical personnel unit line would get promotions allowing those units to heal more units in wider radius, but would be pretty much defenceless themselves.
Rough draft would be Army medicus at Battlefield medicine, being replaced later by Field hospital (in about WW I - WW II times?) and then C.S.H. (Combat Support Hospital, wiki link) somewhere around Modern Health Care or maybe even exactly there, granting it additional trick. It could also go Transhuman, perhaps at Regenerative Medicine, to Mobile regeneration center or at something else, like Automated traffic with Battlefield robosurgeons.
Again, does it make any sense whatsoever? ^^"

Well, for the moment, that's all. I am going to think hard about the Theory of relativity/Quantum Physics applications to see if I could come up with something for those.

Biofuels are already in the mod; we have the Biomaterials tech (which was originally named Biofuels before my tech tree revisions) and the Biofuel Refinery National Wonder. So there isn't really anything to do there.

Vokarya said:

I have been thinking of a few thing that I would like to do to help particular techs.

Paper: Could we introduce Paper as a resource? It would not be required for anything, but would give +50% production speed to School of Scribes, Library, University, School, Printer, Press Agency and Publishing House. The Paper Mill would be a National Wonder like the Glassmith and Chemical Plant.

Click to expand...

It's ok with me but is there a reason why you don't want it to be required for anything?

I agree with your other proposals in this post.

45°38'N-13°47'E;12978290 said:

It's ok with me but is there a reason why you don't want it to be required for anything?

I agree with your other proposals in this post.

Click to expand...

I just don't see that there is any building so dependent on paper that being cut off from a supply would make the building utterly unable to function. Also, I see resources as representing a substantial supply of the resource in question; a civilization probably has lots of small stone works, but a Stone resource means a high-quality supply. In general, I'm not in favor of absolute requirements on buildings. Units, yes, but buildings, no.

Idea for a new unit: Submarine aircraft carriers

Ajes said:

Idea for a new unit: Submarine aircraft carriers

Click to expand...

There's a unit for it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4737
But I don't see a priority in adding this unit now, although I like the idea; historically, it's never been so significant.
If Vokarya wants to add it when he'll add other units, that's ok with me; it could be a second unit for Submarine Warfare, maybe in conjunction with some other tech like Flight.

Edit: I'd say it could carry seaplanes only, if possible

About Caste and Horse Archery, how about we completely remove them and move the units to some other techs? I've always viewed both techs as kind of a stretch.

On Storytelling, we could add the Yakima Indian Painted Rock as a wonder, or pictographs, since Storytelling suggests that it's not written word (meaning that a Epic of Gilgamesh possible wonder is out). I've got no idea what to attach to the wonder. Or it could be an extra-early National Epic national wonder and the actual National Epic could be pushed up to Paper.

Horse archery could enably the withdraw promotions.
Chemistry could give a new building, (chemical laboratory) an upgrade of the alchemist lab. Then maybe another upgrade (chemical factory?) can become availabe at late industrial age (maybe from Plastics? And move Three Gorges somewhere else? It didn`t make sense at plastic anyway).

I have an idea for Spaceport buildings that would clear the one-trick-pony status from both Hypersonic Flight and Interstellar Flight.
We currently have two pairs of Airport buildings in the mod:

• Airport (requires Flight) -> Commercial Airport (requires Aerodynamics). This is the passenger and cargo side of air travel.
• Military Airbase (requires Aviation) -> Aerospace Complex (requires Orbital Flight). This is the military side of aviation.

What if we do this?

• Move Aerospace Complex from Orbital Flight to Hypersonic Flight.
• Orbital Spaceport is a new building that replaces Commercial Airport and becomes available at Orbital Flight.
• Spaceport is another new building that replaces Orbital Spaceport and becomes available at Interstellar Flight.

This would give a second thing to both Hypersonic Flight and Interstellar Flight. Does this sound workable? Ideally, I'd like to have the Spaceports also replace the seaport line, but I think that would result in some very, very weird bonuses on the Spaceport buildings so that there isn't any penalty for upgrading.

Here's another minor thing I discovered in the AND Building Schema: <TechHealthChanges> (and its companion <TechHappinessChanges>). I think Modern Health Care should grant Hospitals +2, which would count as a minor trick and be enough to move MHC out of one-trick-pony status.

Health is already so much a non-factor in the late game it feels like. Kind of a week bonus.

Agreed. Other than a city bombed by a BBM or Plague Bringer, and the odd newly-founded and/or ignored city in the middle of nowhereland, I don't think I've ever seen an Unhealthy city in the Transhuman era that wasn't a Barbarian founded one. Pretty much everyone has a surplus of 20 or more health by then.