Resources Ideas

Noyyau said:

I'd leave the Steel Mill in (with its engineer slots and production bonus), only removing the "provides 1 Steel resource".
Everything else is to me.

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I agree, BUT...
If the steel resource is removed, than what makes it S T E E L mill?
So I prefer Vokarya's idea.

Vokarya said:

Making Steel Mill into a National Wonder brings it way too close to Ironworks for my tastes. At that point, I would probably cut Ironworks down to +10% production with Iron/Coal, make it produce 3x Steel, and raise the limit to 3 and cut the Steel Mill completely.

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Well, I think Steel Mill is a good name anyway. I prefer it over Ironworks... if you go down that way it's ok to me, but what about changing the name from Ironworks to Steel Mill?

Kryanni said:

Make it a national wonder (assuming we can fix the issue where it's possible to rebuild it if it gets destroyed)?

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Do you mean you want to be able to rebuild it if it gets destroyed or not? According to platyping at the moment it's possible to rebuild a destroyed NW, but I haven't tried yet.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13068651 said:

Well, I think Steel Mill is a good name anyway. I prefer it over Ironworks... if you go down that way it's ok to me, but what about changing the name from Ironworks to Steel Mill?

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Makes sense to me, though after so much time knowing it as Ironworks it might be difficult to adjust to the new name

I can completely see myself and possibly others continuing to call it Ironworks after the re-name

What exatly is the difference between reallife Ironworks and Steelmill?
I looked for it in wiki, but... I am too lazy

Maybe we could keep both as NW, one replacing the other. However as I see the two words are rather synonims

Fine, call it steelworks

About the rubber issue, I've seen something that I thought I remember but I wasn't sure until I've checked it right now. Reason why there were both Vulcanized Rubber AND Synthetich Rubber is that the latter one doesn't require Rubber resource! This is something really fundamental for gameplay as some of the modern units require some kind of rubber (real, Vulcanized or Synthetic) and if you don't have Rubber resource, you can't build them at all now! While you have Synthetic Rubber you only need Chemicals to produce Synthetic Rubber and hence all modern units. Given this fact, shouldn't we restore Synthetic Rubber? (Especially since Rubber is a rather rare resource)

Put that way it is a pretty good reason for having both.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13082137 said:

About the rubber issue, I've seen something that I thought I remember but I wasn't sure until I've checked it right now. Reason why there were both Vulcanized Rubber AND Synthetich Rubber is that the latter one doesn't require Rubber resource! This is something really fundamental for gameplay as some of the modern units require some kind of rubber (real, Vulcanized or Synthetic) and if you don't have Rubber resource, you can't build them at all now! While you have Synthetic Rubber you only need Chemicals to produce Synthetic Rubber and hence all modern units. Given this fact, shouldn't we restore Synthetic Rubber? (Especially since Rubber is a rather rare resource)

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I switched it so that both Rubber Factory and Rubber Plant produce Vulcanized Rubber resources and all units that did require one or the other got switched so that they only require Vulcanized Rubber. You can just use the Rubber Plant to go from Chemicals to Vulcanized Rubber. I made certain to scrub all requirements for Synthetic Rubber out of units so that there wouldn't be any problems.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13082137 said:

About the rubber issue, I've seen something that I thought I remember but I wasn't sure until I've checked it right now. Reason why there were both Vulcanized Rubber AND Synthetich Rubber is that the latter one doesn't require Rubber resource! This is something really fundamental for gameplay as some of the modern units require some kind of rubber (real, Vulcanized or Synthetic) and if you don't have Rubber resource, you can't build them at all now! While you have Synthetic Rubber you only need Chemicals to produce Synthetic Rubber and hence all modern units. Given this fact, shouldn't we restore Synthetic Rubber? (Especially since Rubber is a rather rare resource)

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That's what I posted earlier.

In early AND days under Afforess if you had no "natural" Rubber resource you could Not build the Jeep Line of Modern units. But with the proper sequence of buildings you could produce synthetic rubber and get those units.

I may be and sometimes forgetful, but I haven't forgotten everything yet! And I have been around this particular block more than once over the last 7 years of RoM, AND, C2C, and AND2.

Edit: Seems Vokarya has addressed the issue.

JosEPh

Like I did with the Rubber resources, I would like to consider cutting out the Biofuels resource. I don't think it serves a purpose in being a separate resource. Right now, the only benefits from Biofuels are +1 and it can be used to build a few units, all of which are only available because I put the bonus there in the first place, and each of those units can be built with Oil Products as well.

I would like to see instead having the Biofuel Refinery produce Oil Products (so it would be another route to the same resource, like the Japanese Shale Plant) and transfer the +1 from the Biofuels to the Refinery, along with the +1 from Biomaterials tech. So instead of +1 civ-wide right away and +1 from building a Biofuel Refinery, you would get +1 per Refinery built, maximum +3 civ-wide.

Do you think this is workable?

Not a bad idea. I like to have many resources, but the idea is entirely feasible. I love to micromanagement, and when there are few resources, micromanagement in that aspect is not the same. But in the case of units that are unlocked with Biofuel, it is logical that also could be recruited smoothly with regular Oil.

In fact, I miss some resources that I think are important, such as food resources for civilizations that live in the desert. Something like date palm, for example. This would be a great help and realism when creating scenarios with desert terrains.

It may sound silly, but in reality, in most desert areas there is not enough moisture to any type of crops, but there are foods that can maintain a civilization. It is very sad to see, for example, the GEM mapscript, so horribly empty in desert lands.

Sounds good to me Vokarya.
As for desert resources, I'm not sure, there are oasies already and making desert more food producing from the start... I don't know, I feel it strange, I think it should be colonized late in the game as it is now, IMO. Let's see what Vokarya has to say about it.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13103585 said:

Sounds good to me Vokarya.
As for desert resources, I'm not sure, there are oasies already and making desert more food producing from the start... I don't know, I feel it strange, I think it should be colonized late in the game as it is now, IMO. Let's see what Vokarya has to say about it.

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Yes, however, I do not like really the idea put oasis everywhere. It is not good to have a oasis in moderately fertile zones, near coastal cities areas for example. Besides, the oases prevent the construction of a city in that tile.

If we put as an example the area of Yemen and Oman in GEM mapscript, which are moderately fertile areas, which in the game look like Plains, does not look good put a oasis in them, and even less with a river near. Nor is it realistic to put another resource as potatoes or grain. It looks better put a own resource of the zone, and not be always putting only fish (if coast), sheep or cattle, or maybe a horse, if in that area are abundant (rare). It gets a bit repetitive. Doing this in deserts of colder latitudes, like the Gobi desert, it's okay, because these people lived almost entirely on their herds and limited hunting, but in deserts of equatorial latitudes, it misses some other type of resource.

Actually, in order starting with randomly generated map is not as important, although it looks good. But when creating scenarios, it misses some desertic resource.

About that these areas should be the last colonized, it is true in a randomly generated map, but not on scenarios. In realistic historical scenarios, pretty important civilizations would begin in desert areas.

Anyway, I'm working on a new version of GEM mapscript, with some of the new civilizations of Mega Civ Pack, and I can simply include in this submod the resources that are necessary. So, everyone is happy

I can't understand why biofuels give +1 and not bonus.They are supposed to be ecological fuels so first of all they should give healthiness bonus.

nionios said:

I can't understand why biofuels give +1 and not bonus.They are supposed to be ecological fuels so first of all they should give healthiness bonus.

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I don't really know either, so I'm leaving it alone for now. I have thought about it as well.

I had a couple random thoughts regarding Obsidian. First of all, I've noticed that health and happiness are pretty easy to come by in the Industrial and Modern Eras and I'd like to rein those in just a bit. Hospital and Medical Clinic have what seems to me to be unnecessary +1 from both Obsidian and Lead. I think we could take these off without it hurting gameplay at all.

Second, without these bonuses, there really isn't a reason for Obsidian to hang around after the Classical Era is over; it can serve as the resource requirement for Spearmen, Axemen, Light Swordsmen, and Heavy Horsemen, but that's all. I was thinking about having Obsidian go obsolete somewhere during the Medieval or Renaissance Eras -- Metallurgy seems like the best bet, as by that point you have Longbowmen or Arquebusiers that are superior to any unit that can be built with Obsidian only. (I also had a brief thought about Lead going obsolete in the Modern Era, but I realized we want to keep that around for nuclear stuff, so I'm not going to touch that.)

I totally agree

RyoHazuki said:

I totally agree

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Me too

Obsidian scalpels are much better than surgical steel! This is one of Zappara's favs.

Lead is still used in roofing mostly as flashing at joints. Stops water getting in. I have a sheet of it about 1x0.5m visible above my front door. That part of my house was rebuilt in the early 2000's.